Why is Shimano so hated by some?

Dan Brussee wrote:
On 28 Nov 2003 19:40:05 -0800, (Evan Evans)
wrote:


As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few
posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the use of
Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?


There are those who are always against the "big guy". Doesnt really
matter if they make a decent product or not. Same with Microsoft.
They
will always have those who bash them - just because of who they are,
and not based on any real comparisons.

Microsoft is ethically a much nastier company than Shimano, and MS's
products are worse.

Tim McNamara wrote in message ...
(Evan Evans) writes:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a
few posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the
use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

Well, mainly, they're the biggest fish in the pond and thus they are
the biggest target. While I don't use Shimano stuff (I don't like
the way STI levers work), the truth is that they have put a lot of
work into making sure their products function well from the top of
the line down to the bottom. $400 bikes nowadays work better than
$750 bikes of 20 years ago, in terms of shifting and such. They're
easier for new riders to use and that's all to the good for growing
the sport.

For the enthusiast, the downside is that at any given price point, a
bike is a bike is a bike. For the normal person, that may be an
upside. :-D

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference
being that Shimano products are reliably good. Campagnolo is the
Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work better and
last longer, but there is a premium to be paid. Suntour would be
perhaps the OS/2 of the bicycle world- late and great. ;-)


let me just paint a black & white picture. The Campy guys love there
bikes ,worship them & enjoy any opportunity to tinker with them. The
Shimano guys say "it works lets go ride".

Evan Evans wrote:
Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

Nothing. Been working fine for me since 1988.

"Tim McNamara" wrote:

Well, mainly, they're the biggest fish in the pond ...

Interesting analogy considering what their main business is. ;-)

Art Harris

gevans- let me just paint a black & white picture. The Campy guys love there
bikes ,worship them & enjoy any opportunity to tinker with them. The
Shimano guys say "it works lets go ride". BRBR

'their' bikes and I haven't adjusted my rear der for 16 years....

Not bad, 14 posts with only one bit of bugle oil...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(Chalo) wrote in message . com...
(Evan Evans) wrote;

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few
posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the use of
Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

My take:

1) Shimano abuse their position as market leader to displace other
options from the marketplace, particularly the market for new complete
bikes.

2) Shimano make lots of weak, breakage-prone, quick-wearing, and
non-serviceable parts for the lowest possible cost, then proceed to
charge just as much as the market will bear.

3) Shimano make equipment to serve the most easily accomodated 80% of
users, while ignoring the rest.

If you don't have unusual requirements for bike components, don't care
whether other sources and options are available to you, and don't care
whether other sources and options are available to others, then there
is no reason for you to avoid Shimano products.

If you appreciate variety and choices in the market for bike
equipment, note that buying Shimano products works to reduce the
variety and choices available.


Is Dura-Ace weak & brakeage prone?

In article , Evan Evans
wrote:

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few
posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the use of
Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

I am happy with any bicycle component maker that I can afford to buy
with my hard earned money. Shimano is no exception..

I find that Shimano's quality of workmanship even with their lower end
components are always better than the cheaper generic replacements. I
ride a lot each year, so generic stuff just don't last as long as
Shimano's equivalent. So for me, I don't complain about Shimano's
pricing.. The old saying still holds true -- You always get what
you've paid for.

But most of the Shimano's complaint has been centered around their well
known STI finite lifespan.. However, you've got to look at the
perspective that Shimano sells a lot of these STIs compared to
Campagnolo with their Ergos, so even a 1% return (factory defect) for
Shimano, the number will ALWAYS be larger than Campagnolo. Ofcourse,
people hate returning back with their bikes to the shop for repairs.
Usually, they do not want to resolve the issues with their dealers or
with Shimano in a nice and professional manner -- usually ends up
either in a shouting match or an ultimatum. If the issues can not be
resolved to the customers' satisfaction, some customers may opt to vent
their frustration here. Again, since there are more Shimano owners
than say SRAM, Campagnolo, Modolo shifters probably combined, you are
bound to get people advising you here against the use of Shimano
components.

I have used Shimano stuff in the past and have always been happy with
it. A few times, things do not work out but I always go back to my
LBS, inquire nicely and usually get the problem resolved.
I use Shimano stuff because it is widely available and they are
affordable. I have only gone Campy Ergo and Dura-Ace combo recently
because I happened to get them CHEAPER (50-70%) than what my LBS can
sell me and replacement STIs were out of my price range.
But I am not emotionally mad when my STIs kicked the bucket, as I
realized things do break. Yes, STIs are not serviceable, but then many
old digital cameras and old computers out there are not economically
serviceable either.
I like to think that we cyclists are mature people and I hope we are..

In article , Chalo
wrote:

(Evan Evans) wrote;

As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few
posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the use of
Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano?

My take:

1) Shimano abuse their position as market leader to displace other
options from the marketplace, particularly the market for new complete
bikes.


I think most dealers would be more than happy to stock just 1
manufacturer for the market they serve. Not all bicycle dealers are
created equal. Some are more affluent and well off than others. The
ones that are just getting by serving 95% Shimano clients are not going
to go out of their way to stock bikes with SRAM, Campagnolo or Modolo
shifters or components.
Why should they? Times are tough these days, and people don't like
stocking inventory that just sits there doing nothing, which sometimes
usually ends up sold for much less. If customers want something
special, there's a number of custom bike works online as there's also
eBay to entertain their wallets with.

2) Shimano make lots of weak, breakage-prone, quick-wearing, and
non-serviceable parts for the lowest possible cost, then proceed to
charge just as much as the market will bear.


This I don't agree. Other than their STI shifters which are mostly non
serviceable, *most* of their other components are serviceable.

3) Shimano make equipment to serve the most easily accomodated 80% of
users, while ignoring the rest.

If you don't have unusual requirements for bike components, don't care
whether other sources and options are available to you, and don't care
whether other sources and options are available to others, then there
is no reason for you to avoid Shimano products.

If you appreciate variety and choices in the market for bike
equipment, note that buying Shimano products works to reduce the
variety and choices available.

Would you like to elaborate on the unusual requirements people need
that Shimano does not offer?

Jokke writes:

Den Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:30:01 -0600 skrev Tim McNamara:

Shimano is like the Microsoft of the bicycle world, the difference
being that Shimano products are reliably good. Campagnolo is the
Apple of the bicycling world- their products arguably work better
and last longer, but there is a premium to be paid. Suntour would
be perhaps the OS/2 of the bicycle world- late and great. ;-)

Where is Linux? I would like to see some free bike products ;-)

The bicycling equivalent of Linux is at www.ihpva.org. :-D

"Arthur Harris" writes:

"Tim McNamara" wrote:

Well, mainly, they're the biggest fish in the pond ...

Interesting analogy considering what their main business is. ;-)

ROTFL! I had not thought about that at all!