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#71
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
"Chalo" wrote:
Shimano make equipment to serve the most easily accomodated 80% of users, while ignoring the rest. Arthur Harris wrote: How's that? Shimano takes care of the racers, the tourists, the MTBers, and even the fishermen! Armstrong and about half of the pro peloton are using Shimano. Are you saying they are not particular about the equipment they use? Picture what the cycling marketplace would be like if Shimano got out of the business. You think Campy is expensive now?! Expensive?? Even after the Euro increase, Campagnolo is still cheaper at every level than Shimano for new equipment. The $600 gap from Chorus to DA will be $450 next year. If you factor maintenance costs there's a wider gap. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#73
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
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#74
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
David wrote in message ahoo.dsafds.com...
In article , Evan Evans wrote: As a frequent visitor to this group. I've noticed that there are a few posters who use this as a platform to steer people against the use of Shimano components. What's wrong with Shimano? I am happy with any bicycle component maker that I can afford to buy with my hard earned money. Shimano is no exception.. I find that Shimano's quality of workmanship even with their lower end components are always better than the cheaper generic replacements. I ride a lot each year, so generic stuff just don't last as long as Shimano's equivalent. So for me, I don't complain about Shimano's pricing.. The old saying still holds true -- You always get what you've paid for. But most of the Shimano's complaint has been centered around their well known STI finite lifespan.. However, you've got to look at the perspective that Shimano sells a lot of these STIs compared to Campagnolo with their Ergos, so even a 1% return (factory defect) for Shimano, the number will ALWAYS be larger than Campagnolo. Ofcourse, people hate returning back with their bikes to the shop for repairs. Usually, they do not want to resolve the issues with their dealers or with Shimano in a nice and professional manner -- usually ends up either in a shouting match or an ultimatum. If the issues can not be resolved to the customers' satisfaction, some customers may opt to vent their frustration here. Again, since there are more Shimano owners than say SRAM, Campagnolo, Modolo shifters probably combined, you are bound to get people advising you here against the use of Shimano components. I have used Shimano stuff in the past and have always been happy with it. A few times, things do not work out but I always go back to my LBS, inquire nicely and usually get the problem resolved. I use Shimano stuff because it is widely available and they are affordable. I have only gone Campy Ergo and Dura-Ace combo recently because I happened to get them CHEAPER (50-70%) than what my LBS can sell me and replacement STIs were out of my price range. But I am not emotionally mad when my STIs kicked the bucket, as I realized things do break. Yes, STIs are not serviceable, but then many old digital cameras and old computers out there are not economically serviceable either. I like to think that we cyclists are mature people and I hope we are.. Some people hate Shimano because some people are only happy when they're miserable. |
#75
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
The Mac and eventually Windows copied the idea of a GUI, but neither of
these operating systems became a real multi-user operating system until much much later. That strain propagated through X, Unices, and (I hate to admit it) VMS, until it finally returned to PC/Mac operating systems, which I understand now sometimes don't even fall down every third day. The gurus behind X and Athena were very familiar with the Xerox machines, Lisp Machines, and other expressions of PARC-influenced GUIs and network protocols (X is at least as much a network protocol as it is a windowing system). Now I feel like an absolute dinosaur ranting about what Faliero Masi had for lunch the day in 1971 he brazed a seatlug on frame number 17 ... is windoze a multi-user system? ;p rant away... it great to hear from dinosaur's on stuff like this. |
#76
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
"Tim McNamara" wrote in message ... Ummm, yup. That was part of my point. Unless Campagnolo has reversed its price policies of many years, the Italian stuff costs more at the same level than Shimano. Hmm. Not really. If you look at the prices for groups or parts alone, they're pretty much the same for like quality, with Campy sometimes having the advantage. But bike makers do seem to charge more for Campy equipped bikes. Matt O. |
#77
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
"David Kerber" wrote in message ... Shouldn't DA be compared to Record rather than chorus? Then the price comparison would be the other direction. I dunno. Which is more expensive and better quality, a Ferrari, an Aston Martin, or a Lamborghini? Matt O. |
#78
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
-snip much interesting stuff-
David Kerber wrote: Are you sure about this time line? Windows certainly pre-dated the Mac, though I'm less sure about the earlier Apple versions. Remember that Windows 2.11 (the first semi-useful version) came out around the late 80's. I just looked at our original Windows setup discs dated 1985. Win286 are dated 1987. I recall using a PARC demo but that was definitely after we had color (EGA) screens and mice here. Seemed much more sophisticated IIRC because the mouse movements were smoother - buffered somehow(?) It was much higher resolution than the Windows of the era, albeit BW only. GF of the era's computer was a Mac certainly before we had the first Windows. ( BTW her job was Wang supervisor - remember Wang?) -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#79
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
-snip interesting-
In article , Even after the Euro increase, Campagnolo is still cheaper at every level than Shimano for new equipment. The $600 gap from Chorus to DA will be $450 next year. If you factor maintenance costs there's a wider gap. David Kerber wrote: Shouldn't DA be compared to Record rather than chorus? Then the price comparison would be the other direction. OK that is arguable. But CHR and DA use comparable (cold forged aluminum) construction, REC being extensively ti and carbon now - rather a "super-professional" level. But I see your point. (look at CEN to Ultegra for another comparable-level price split.) Alex Santini, Campagnolo's colorful export director in the early '80s used to say "We make three quality levels, for the amateur, the professional and the doctor." -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#80
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Why is Shimano so hated by some?
A Muzi writes:
Even after the Euro increase, Campagnolo is still cheaper at every level than Shimano for new equipment. The $600 gap from Chorus to DA will be $450 next year. If you factor maintenance costs there's a wider gap. Except that Chorus and Dura-Ace are not in equivalent positions in their respective product lines. The Campy equivalent of Dura-Ace is Record; Chorus is the equivalent of Ultegra, etc. That said, I races on 1993 Chorus for 5 years and 1998 Chorus for 2 years, and found both superior to the Ultegra that preceded them. I personally think that Chorus is the equivalent in quality of Dura-Ace, but the Campy and Shimano groups should really be compared by equivalent position. |
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