Switzerland mountain roads questions

I've gotten to sample riding some of the high passes and mountain roads of
Switzerland, and now I've got some questions about it.

(a) What is your favorite high road or pass to ride? What is it that you
like so much about that one?

(b) What mountain roads in Switzerland do you never want to ride again?

(c) Valais / Wallis canton in southwest Switzerland has lots of spectacular
mountains, and there are several roads that go up into them. Which of those
roads could recommend for riding, like I'm looking for some nice views on
the way up, maybe some cute villages to ride thru, some fun curvy sections
on descent, not too much vehicle traffic.

(d) Gotthard / San Gottardo -- is there a way to ride across that pass
without all those bumpy cobbles on the old road?

(e) Julier pass seems like a pretty pass, not amazingly spectacular but
pleasant + pretty higher up when I've been over it on a car. But I've never
ridden my bike over it because it seems to have lots of high-speed cars, and
some trucks, because it's the shortest road between the Engadin valley and
the autobahn + Zurich. Is there some way to work around that? (Albula pass
was decent for riding, but I didn't like staring at the power transmission
towers higher up).

(f) Lukmanier pass (Lucomagno) -- is it interesting to ride?

Thanks for the help and ideas,

Ken

Ken Roberts wrote:

I've gotten to sample riding some of the high passes and mountain
roads of Switzerland, and now I've got some questions about it.

(a) What is your favorite high road or pass to ride? What is it that
you like so much about that one?

There is only one worth repeating over and over again... and then thee
is the second.

Stelvio and Gavia!!! Don't miss them if you ever ride the Alps.

For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret on
the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.

http://tinyurl.com/dr4ot

Jobst Brandt

wrote
Stelvio and Gavia!!! Don't miss them if you ever ride the Alps.

Stelvio is rather close to Switzerland, and the day Tony and I rode it
last summer our loop went thru Switzerland, so it fits the thread topic. And
I thought it was a really great that day, here's some photos:
http://roberts-1.com/t/b08/itj/k/a

But I think a lot depends on weather and snow cover. Like a German rider I
met in September at Passo Tonale told me he didn't like Stelvio but did like
Gavia -- but admitted that it was a sunny day on Gavia and cloudy on
Stelvio. I myself was unimpressed the first time I climbed the east side of
Stelvio three years ago on a cloudy day with little snow remaining in
September, but very impressed with climbing the east side in June this year
on a sunny day with lots of snow remaining from big late-spring storms.

For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret
on the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.

Yes definitely for those willing to incorporate hiking and/or rough
dirt/gravel (and possible sticky mud) in their bicycle touring. Not just for
the adventure -- the close views of the Mont Blanc massif are very
spectacular. Thanks to the suggestions and web pages of Jobst, I've ridden
over both of them. I will gladly ride again over Col du Grand Ferret (on the
Italy / Switzerland border) in favorable conditions. Col de la Seigne I'm
not planning to repeat -- the road on the Italian side was just too rocky at
the time I did it -- but I'm glad I did once.

Ken

On 20 Ott, 22:20, "Ken Roberts"
wrote:
Col de la Seigne I'm
not planning to repeat -- the road on the Italian side was just too rocky at
the time I did it -- but I'm glad I did once.

Hold on! I rode once only up to Rifugio Elisabetta.
Is the road worse farther up, or did you find it just as bad?

I am thinking of hitting the area this coming june coming from Susa
over Moncenisio, Iseran and the Piccolo.

Sergio
Pisa

sergio wrote
I rode once only up to Rifugio Elisabetta.
Is the road worse farther up, or did you find it just as bad?

I think it's more of a hiking trail higher up, on both sides of Col de la
Seigne. The views are really great (on both sides), but I don't think it's
much fun riding it on a road bike. Put me on a mountain bike with a front
suspension and I'd consider it. (and then I'd also consider riding some
other dirt-path passes higher and closer the Mont Blanc massif, e.g.
Bonhomme)

To me Col du Grand Ferret is different, because if you take it southwest to
northeast, then you do lots of hiking and rolling and carrying climbing up
from the refuge, but then the northeast side is mostly ridable -- so I get
the reward of a descent for my labor of hiking.
But on Seigne I'm not a good enough descender on unpaved rocky hiking trails
for it to feel like the downhill is a reward.

Also the times I ride over terrain with substantial bumps, the more likely
that things get loose or break on my bike. Bike repairs are not something I
need to get involved with more times on a big trip outside my home region.

Ken

Ken Roberts wrote:

I rode once only up to Rifugio Elisabetta. Is the road worse
farther up, or did you find it just as bad?

I think it's more of a hiking trail higher up, on both sides of Col
de la Seigne. The views are really great (on both sides), but I
don't think it's much fun riding it on a road bike. Put me on a
mountain bike with a front suspension and I'd consider it. (and then
I'd also consider riding some other dirt-path passes higher and
closer the Mont Blanc massif, e.g. Bonhomme)

There is only a short steep section on the east approach that is
rocky:

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i60.html

Here it is on the west side, coming and going:

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/f85.html

weather up here is always variable.

To me Col du Grand Ferret is different, because if you take it
southwest to northeast, then you do lots of hiking and rolling and
carrying climbing up from the refuge, but then the northeast side is
mostly ridable -- so I get the reward of a descent for my labor of
hiking. But on Seigne I'm not a good enough descender on unpaved
rocky hiking trails for it to feel like the downhill is a reward.

The Col Ferret is a lot shorter but in the same east-west valley. For
a young and healthy bikie, its a great adventure and mostly riding
down the east slope.

Also the times I ride over terrain with substantial bumps, the more
likely that things get loose or break on my bike. Bike repairs are
not something I need to get involved with more times on a big trip
outside my home region.

We were once all young and beautiful:

http://tinyurl.com/5uzfgy

but that doesn't mean you can't go there anymore. I've been going
back for more than 50 years and love it every time. Nostalgia is a
great emotion. I first saw these roads when most were unpaved in
1948. One of my great adventures was staying in Hotel Belvedere in
the year that it reopened after more than 60 years closure. When I
first saw it from our family cars as a youngster, I said I would some
day stay there... I did!

http://rhone.riverama.com/rhoneglacier.php

Jobst Brandt

Ken Roberts wrote:

Stelvio and Gavia!!! Don't miss them if you ever ride the Alps.

Stelvio is rather close to Switzerland, and the day Tony and I rode
it last summer our loop went thru Switzerland, so it fits the thread
topic. And I thought it was a really great that day, here's some
photos:

http://roberts-1.com/t/b08/itj/k/a

Great photos and wonderful weather. When I ride there I hear Va
Pensiero from Nabucco in my head. I think Giuseppe Verdi must have
been a closet bikie.

http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/0/...-pensiero.html

But I think a lot depends on weather and snow cover. Like a German
rider I met in September at Passo Tonale told me he didn't like
Stelvio but did like Gavia -- but admitted that it was a sunny day
on Gavia and cloudy on Stelvio. I myself was unimpressed the first
time I climbed the east side of Stelvio three years ago on a cloudy
day with little snow remaining in September, but very impressed with
climbing the east side in June this year on a sunny day with lots of
snow remaining from big late-spring storms.

For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret
on the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html

Yes definitely for those willing to incorporate hiking and/or rough
dirt/gravel (and possible sticky mud) in their bicycle touring. Not
just for the adventure -- the close views of the Mont Blanc massif
are very spectacular. Thanks to the suggestions and web pages of
Jobst, I've ridden over both of them. I will gladly ride again over
Col du Grand Ferret (on the Italy / Switzerland border) in favorable
conditions. Col de la Seigne I'm not planning to repeat -- the road
on the Italian side was just too rocky at the time I did it -- but
I'm glad I did once.

Then there is the great San Giacomo, from Crevola d'Ossola in the
Simplon to the Val Bedretto on the Nufenen pass.

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i54.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i53.html

Va Pensiero!

Jobst Brandt

Jobst&Ken,
here is a suggestion for you, or anyone else as a
matter of fact: a little known road in the Dolomites. From Braies to
Pratopiazza, easy and beautiful: a true jewel!
To make a loop up you can ascend from Carbonin. On this side the road
is a rocky path and barebly possible to ride with a racing bicycle,
though I managed to do it.

Sergio
Pisa

sergio wrote
a little known road in the Dolomites. From Braies to
Pratopiazza, easy and beautiful: a true jewel!

Thanks, it's now on my list.
I believe that in the winter the road on the north side is used to access a
"rodelbahn", as follows . . . Drive high on the road with sleds carried in
the car. Everyone but the car driver glides down on their sleds on snow on
the rodelbahn trail. The car driver goes down on the road and meets them at
the bottom of the trail and takes them up for another sled run. I didn't
sled it, since I do my winter touring on skis.
(so I knew about that road -- but I hadn't thought about it from a summer
biking perspective -- until now)

To make a loop up you can ascend from Carbonin. On this side
the road is a rocky path and barebly possible to ride with a
racing bicycle, though I managed to do it.

I've skied that path in winter. I hope you got off the road just a little
ways north from Carbonin (Schluderbach) at the Lago di Landro (Dürrensee)
for the view back south to Monte Cristallo. Especially in early summer it's
very spectacular -- see the 5th photo on this page:
http://roberts-1.com/t/b08/itj/k/d

A little further north down from the Lago di Landro, I think there's a view
east to the famous Tre Cimes di Lavaredo (Drei Zinnen) - (but it might
require a short hike?)

Ken

wrote
Then there is the great San Giacomo, from Crevola d'Ossola in the
Simplon to the Val Bedretto on the Nufenen pass.
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i54.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i53.html

Thanks, I saw that in one of your detailed helpful trip reports, so I've
been thinking about it. And I looked for the north-side trails while riding
across Nufenen - (that reconnoiter did not inspire my confidence). Trying
San Giacomo would give me an excuse to try Simplon. Looking at the second
photo makes it clear to me why you have a different feel for some of the
passes than I do: You rode them in early July in a year with seasonal snow
nearby, and I rode them in September.

For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret
on the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html

That photo helps explain to me why Jobst thinks Col de la Seigne doesn't
have many rocks -- because it didn't the last time he rode it. But paths and
roads keep changing . . . from my crossing in 2006 see the bottom photo on
this page:
http://www.roberts-1.com/t/b06/mb
Maybe the next time someone rides it and reports, it will have changed back
to like Jobst's photo.

Ken