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#71
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Shimano Nexus rear hub
On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 2:05:38 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/18/2015 6:13 PM, Andre Jute wrote: On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 4:03:31 PM UTC, sms wrote: On 12/18/2015 5:44 AM, Duane wrote: On 18/12/2015 12:31 AM, Tosspot wrote: On 17/12/15 19:53, wrote: On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 8:18:35 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote: but one guy says he has been using the geared hubs for 5 years with no problems. John B. All of my Shimano and Campagnolo 9 and 10 speed bikes are more than 5 years old and have never given me any problems. And are minimal maintenance. It does not sound like these internal gear hubs are very durable. That would be 10,000 miles for me, if you can get a chain/casette/chainring to last 10,000 miles you must be doing dry miles only. I'm up around 5000km with a SRAM 11 speed chain and that's the most I've done with 10 or 11 speed bikes with Shimano or SRAM. But I'm averaging 5000 - 7000km per year. Replacing wear items is very easy and relatively cheap. Replacing an internally geared hub is complex and expensive. They have advantages, but cost and service life are not two of them. Jutes's Law of bicycle gears, pal. They can be cheap, capable of undemanding duty and short-lived in heavier duty, or expensive and long-lived whatever the duty. The key is spending the money in the right place in the first instance, because after a few years one of the options, the Rohloff, soldiering on, on an annual basis costs less than Shimano Nexus hub gearbox. My Rohloff passed the point where it worked out cheaper per annum than a Shimano Nexus HGB four years ago. That a Rohloff in the long term is a cheap gearbox is incontestable. That a Shimano Nexus, and probably an Alfine too, can be a good longterm investment is proven by lots of experience in actual not overly demanding applications by commuters and suchlike. That the longterm outcome isn't guaranteed in the presence of harsh demands on the box is also known. That's all news only to Americans. To Europeans it's yesterday's excitement. What would actually be interesting, even exciting, to know is how well the NuVinci CVT stands up to hard use in the medium and longer term. I note with interest that the NuVinci has persuaded the financiers of at least one Irish metro brike share scheme that they can take the abuse of strangers. http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/p...-and-limerick/ Same link I gave yesterday, if you've seen it already. Andre Jute Rational, always We have happy customers riding NuVinci for several years now but not a significant number and none with high mileage. No complaints. http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 NuVinci probably has no reason to sponsor a long-range demolition derby of the sort that Rohloffs, which are in the main fitted to cross-country mud pluggers (1), indulge in daily. Andre Jute (1) The tourers with Rohloff boxes are a tiny minority. They only seem like a horde because they are so often opinion-leaders and -formers, progressive, articulate and persuasive, and because the luddites among the roadies -- and that's most of them -- have such a visceral reaction to the Rohloff and thus make it sound like a bigger threat to the established order than it really is. Some people just never know when to shut up. |
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#72
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Shimano Nexus rear hub
On 12/19/2015 6:28 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
Some people just never know when to shut up. Do tell. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#73
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Shimano Nexus rear hub
On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 5:33:51 AM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2015 6:28 PM, Andre Jute wrote: Some people just never know when to shut up. Do tell. -- - Frank Krygowski Here's the context of what I said which inspired to Franki-boy to agree roadies are luddites: "The tourers with Rohloff boxes are a tiny minority. They only seem like a horde because they are so often opinion-leaders and -formers, progressive, articulate and persuasive, and because the luddites among the roadies -- and that's most of them -- have such a visceral reaction to the Rohloff and thus make it sound like a bigger threat to the established order than it really is. Some people just never know when to shut up." Gee, Franki-boy, if you're setting yourself up as my echo, at least start by agreeing with with me on something important. Andre Jute I do polemics for a living |
#74
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Shimano Nexus rear hub
On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 08:22:51 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/19/2015 4:26 AM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:41:38 -0800, sms wrote: On 12/18/2015 4:04 PM, John B. wrote: On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 16:37:35 -0800, sms wrote: On 12/17/2015 4:15 PM, John B. wrote: snip Maybe. After all they now carry batteries around so they don't have to bother with manual shifting :-) Well I was skeptical of the power-assisted shifting, but apparently it really does benefit racers. And now there are devices you can add that will do automatic shifting tailored to your preferences. It's the idea that you have to recharge your derailleur batteries that I have a hard time with. And when I was down in Morgan Hill at Specialized last year, they mentioned that the preference was to save a few grams by using a smaller battery that needed to be recharged more often. I think that a dynamo that uses some magnets on the spindle could generate sufficient energy to keep the battery charged, but that would also add a few grams. Funny, I was down to my local shop this morning and was looking at an electric shift bike. Goodness, the shifters have two little levers to push and the 'lectrics' move the derailer, just like my manual shifters, you flick a finger and the gears change. But I suppose that they let those with wimpy little fingers shift just like the big macho guys with the strong hands. Supposedly, with electronic shifting, you're more likely to shift into a proper gear than to remain in a slightly less optimal gear. Also, there are interfaces to the shifting system to automatically shift based on a learning algorithm or on your manually inputted algorithm. That is really hard for me to believe. Is it really that difficult to shift a mechanical shifter. It's not something I'd want, I'm trying to minimize extra gadgets, but apparently it does work really well. "Is it really that difficult to shift a mechanical shifter?" Not at all. The Ancients even used fingers before front changers. That said, a test ride of a Campagnolo EPS bike will astound you. Necessary? nope but very impressive. A friend came up with a hand shifted front derailer (Simplex?) and had it on one of his bikes. I asked him how he liked it and he reckoned it was very useful. He used it on a bike that he rode on a two week "tour" in north Thailand and said it was just as useful as the Shimano "Brifter" he had on the right handlebar :-) -- cheers, John B. |
#75
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Shimano Nexus rear hub
Yo, Slow Johnny, here's a really good sprocket change video for the Shimano Nexus hub gearbox by a techie who knows what he's talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz-3PfboKTw I also like the way he first identifies all the parts. Andre Jute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz-3PfboKTwOn Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 12:28:36 PM UTC, John B. wrote: I'm beginning to see these geared hubs on some of the cheaper flat bar road bikes here and am sort of wondering whether they might be just the thing for riding in Bangkok. Bangkok is built on an alluvial plain and is essentially flat. The largest "hills" I encounter riding here are the "hump back" bridges and if a bike has three gears (assuming the right ratio) it would be enough for the majority of my Bangkok riding. Given the added complexities of the usual front/rear derailer system I am wondering whether one of the various Shimano Nexus geared hubs might not be "just the thing". It seems to me that the chain would be similar to the old single speed chains that lasted forever and no derailers to keep in tune and sprockets and cogs to wear out. I am thinking that a 5 or 7 speed hub would more then cover all city riding assuming, of course, that the gear ratios were in the right range. I believe that with an odd number of rear gears, probably 5 or 7, if the middle gear was, say 60 gear inches, and the ratios were in say 10 - 15% steps that it would cover 99.9% of all the riding I do in Bangkok. Has anyone done this? Are rear cogs available in sufficient sizes to be able to set up any initial gear ratio that one desires? Do the hubs last? Any special loves/hates? Any suggestions, advice? -- cheers, John B. |
#76
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Shimano Nexus rear hub
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:25:20 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/17/2015 12:53 PM, russecom wrote: On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 8:18:35 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote: but one guy says he has been using the geared hubs for 5 years with no problems. John B. All of my Shimano and Campagnolo 9 and 10 speed bikes are more than 5 years old and have never given me any problems. And are minimal maintenance. It does not sound like these internal gear hubs are very durable. There's no single answer. My 1953 Sturmey gearbox has been rebuilt twice (1971 and 1998, mostly preventative cleaning/ inspection in that its' never failed). There are dead-after-one-season derailleur gear trains too. different equipment, different riders, different mileage, different environment, etc. Oh and as Mr Scheidt notes, salt. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 By the beard of Sheldon... I sorely miss the days when a post mentioning Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds would bring immediate attention and posting from the great, late Jobst Brandt. Sigh. pH |
#77
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Shimano Nexus rear hub
On 20/12/15 22:32, Andre Jute wrote:
Yo, Slow Johnny, here's a really good sprocket change video for the Shimano Nexus hub gearbox by a techie who knows what he's talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz-3PfboKTw I also like the way he first identifies all the parts. The plastic parts are Voodoo if you don't follow the instructions for lining them up again. And make *sure* they are locked back on. It's a bummer to plong the wheel on, connect the shifter cable, and find it's a loose as a whores drawers. |
#79
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Shimano Nexus rear hub
- John B. / Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:28:11 +0100
I'm beginning to see these geared hubs on some of the cheaper flat bar road bikes here and am sort of wondering whether they might be just the thing for riding in Bangkok. [...] It seems to me that the chain would be similar to the old single speed chains that lasted forever and no derailers to keep in tune and sprockets and cogs to wear out. True. The chain-side is single-speed tech. I am thinking that a 5 or 7 speed hub would more then cover all city I formerly (last century, when I was young) owned a bike with Torpedo 3-speed hub. The ratio of this was +- 30 % ... about quite like the 1st, 3rd, and 5th gear of a 5-speed chain shift. The newer hub shifts have even more ratio. The downside is that the smaller mechanics that fits into a hub can't stand racing forces. But this won't be a problem when you use it to travel the town. Has anyone done this? Are rear cogs available in sufficient sizes to be able to set up any initial gear ratio that one desires? Do the hubs last? Any special loves/hates? There are several sizes available to adjust the 'middle gear' ratio. And no, I hat no trouble ever with my old Torpedo hub except kids laughing at it. New hub shifts aren't worse, the concept is quite solid. I'd prefer a 5-gear, not a 9-gear, because every speed needs a complete planet-drive gearset inside of the hub, and the more you pack into it, the tinier the single pieces get. For a city bike, nothing is wrong about hub shift. jk -- no sig |
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