Chains

I came across a Site, apparently associated with Vello News that
apparently is conducting/conducted quite a few chain tests.

The site is http://www.friction-facts.com/

By the way, their "Ultra Fast" chain is apparently wax lubricated :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

BTW, that'll cost you $15

http://www.friction-facts.com/services/batch-testing

On Sunday, December 8, 2013 7:23:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
BTW, that'll cost you $15



http://www.friction-facts.com/services/batch-testing

.......


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.bicycles.tech/chain$20testing

pull up a chair...there was a flap about chain testing a while back. A garageman devised a testing system with lube application services ? was getting enough play on it for general internet dissing..now associated with velo News ? Was velo bought out b Harlod Hughes ?

On 09/12/13 09:54, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

ProGold lube tests:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/bikes-and-tech/velolab-revisited-testing-chain-friction-over-time-with-progold_282854
"Metal conditioner". Huh?

Sulphur additive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_pressure_additive

Hmm. Maybe my hot wax blend should include a squirt of 80w90 EP gear
oil, along with the MoS2 grease.

--
JS

Hmm. Maybe my hot wax blend should include a squirt of 80w90 EP gear

oil, along with the MoS2 grease.


go for that...

ultrasonic would lab sub for a hot bath...no mess...hahagack....

everyone has metal conditioners.....locktite....rusto...WEST EPOXY...

Jeff, were you here when the chain device/chain service for CAT LIBRE broke in ?

several attacks were proffered. I doahno if that's relevant...but analogous.

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 10:13:59 +1100, James
wrote:

On 09/12/13 09:54, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

ProGold lube tests:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/bikes-and-tech/velolab-revisited-testing-chain-friction-over-time-with-progold_282854
"Metal conditioner". Huh?

Sulphur additive?

Vulcanized metal? Room temperature anealing?
If they had offered an "oil conditioner", I would have not problem
with defining it as an lubricating additive, but not as a "metal
conditioner". Whatever is in ProGold lub, it doesn't affect the
metal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_pressure_additive

EP is an oil additive.

Hmm. Maybe my hot wax blend should include a squirt of 80w90 EP gear
oil, along with the MoS2 grease.

Not enought high tech content. Try frictionless, no contact,
nano-bearings:
http://www.ideaconnection.com/patents/4612-Frictionless-Nano-bearing.html
Unfortunately, nano-prices are unlikely.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:54:06 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

I did notice this tidbit in the Chain Efficiency vs Load report:

"Prior to testing, each chain was run on the test equipment
in for 1hr (initial run-in), then cleaned and re-lubed with
a light oil using an Ultrasonic machine to infuse the oil into
the chain links. Re-lubing was done to remove any efficiency
variations due to differences in factory lube between the
models/manufacturers."

Ultrasonic infusion? I assume that's because they believe that
dunking cold chains into cold oil will not properly lubricate the
links. I don't see how ultrasonics can help as there's no cavitation
(exploding bubbles) in the oil. At best, it's a rather vigorous
agitation, which I guess offers some assistance.

Argh. I'm wrong (again). The author forgot to mention that the chain
and oil get heated to 100F in the ultrasonic bath. It's in the Mar
2013 Velo News article, in the sidebar, as:
"The chains were cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner in odorless
mineral spirits prior to testing, and then all three chains
were immersed in a 100°F bath of each respective lube and run
in the ultrasonic machine for five minutes. The greases were
worked in manually."

Drivel: I tend to think in terms of production engineering, where a
machine would be designed to perform the various steps of the chain
cleaning and lubrication process. I'm visualizing the dismounted
chain passing through a series of small machines that scrape, wash,
clean, blow dry, heat, pressure lube, wipe excess, and vacuum pack.
Perhaps built into a vending machine. Please insert your bicycle
chain in the slot, deposit some spare change, select your favored
lube, and your like-new chain will be ready momentarily. I should
probably test for chain stretch first. Maybe offer a choice of
lubricating mixture ingredients and condiments. The home mechanic
version would be much the same, but powered by an electric drill.
Maybe I should go do something else before I get any more such great
ideas.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 10:13:59 +1100, James
:wrote:

:On 09/12/13 09:54, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:
: ProGold lube tests:
: http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/bikes-and-tech/velolab-revisited-testing-chain-friction-over-time-with-progold_282854
: "Metal conditioner". Huh?
:
:Sulphur additive?

:Vulcanized metal? Room temperature anealing?
:If they had offered an "oil conditioner", I would have not problem
:with defining it as an lubricating additive, but not as a "metal
:conditioner". Whatever is in ProGold lub, it doesn't affect the
:metal.

:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_pressure_additive

:EP is an oil additive.

Most EP additives work by leaving deposit, that's bound to metal. Not
too much of a stretch to call it a 'metal conditioner'.


--
sig 56

On Sunday, December 8, 2013 6:13:59 PM UTC-5, James wrote:

"Metal conditioner". Huh?

Sulphur additive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_pressure_additive

Hmm. Maybe my hot wax blend should include a squirt of 80w90 EP gear
oil, along with the MoS2 grease.

I think my current batch of chain wax has 80W90 gear oil, rather than plain motor oil, mixed in to it.

Trouble is, I mix up one of these batches only once per decade or so, and I don't remember for sure what's in this one. But it's dark green and smells funny, kind of like gear lube, so I think that's what it is.

IIRC, the first batch I ever mixed used plain motor oil in with the wax. Then I read an article in _Machine Design_ magazine where some researchers were enthusiastically testing boric acid as a lubricant additive for situations I judged similar to a bike chain. Supposedly, initial results said its crystals had the same low-friction shear action as MoS2 but with greater resistance to moisture. So I tried mixing some boric acid powder into my previous mix. I used it for a while with uncertain benefit.

But then I carried my bike on a rear rack of a car for a 3 hour freeway trip in January. The bike ended up coated with road salt, and the chain was rusted unbelievably. Rightly or wrongly, I blamed the boric acid for helping that rust, and pitched the batch. Again, I'm pretty sure this is the next batch, and I think it's got gear lube.

I'll try to remember to take notes on the next batch. After ten years pass, that is.

- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, December 8, 2013 8:43:39 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:54:06 -0800, Jeff Liebermann

wrote:



I did notice this tidbit in the Chain Efficiency vs Load report:



"Prior to testing, each chain was run on the test equipment

in for 1hr (initial run-in), then cleaned and re-lubed with

a light oil using an Ultrasonic machine to infuse the oil into

the chain links. Re-lubing was done to remove any efficiency

variations due to differences in factory lube between the

models/manufacturers."



Ultrasonic infusion? I assume that's because they believe that

dunking cold chains into cold oil will not properly lubricate the

links. I don't see how ultrasonics can help as there's no cavitation

(exploding bubbles) in the oil. At best, it's a rather vigorous

agitation, which I guess offers some assistance.



Argh. I'm wrong (again). The author forgot to mention that the chain

and oil get heated to 100F in the ultrasonic bath. It's in the Mar

2013 Velo News article, in the sidebar, as:

"The chains were cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner in odorless

mineral spirits prior to testing, and then all three chains

were immersed in a 100�F bath of each respective lube and run

in the ultrasonic machine for five minutes. The greases were

worked in manually."



Drivel: I tend to think in terms of production engineering, where a

machine would be designed to perform the various steps of the chain

cleaning and lubrication process. I'm visualizing the dismounted

chain passing through a series of small machines that scrape, wash,

clean, blow dry, heat, pressure lube, wipe excess, and vacuum pack.

Perhaps built into a vending machine. Please insert your bicycle

chain in the slot, deposit some spare change, select your favored

lube, and your like-new chain will be ready momentarily. I should

probably test for chain stretch first. Maybe offer a choice of

lubricating mixture ingredients and condiments. The home mechanic

version would be much the same, but powered by an electric drill.

Maybe I should go do something else before I get any more such great

ideas.



--

Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com

Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com

Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

........

hey deese guys are serious Dude....dey hired a Priest to work the grease in.....