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Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 4th 16, 03:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nanocrystals-stronger-carbon-fiber-kevlar/23959/
Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than
Kevlar or carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers
stronger than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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  #2  
Old January 4th 16, 03:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 2:05:01 AM UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nanocrystals-stronger-carbon-fiber-kevlar/23959/
Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than
Kevlar or carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers
stronger than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Papier mache bicycles. Lovely. I shall be the world's leading expert.

Andre Jute
An expert is a guy who tells everyone else what to ride while he sticks to his comfortable old steel bike.
  #3  
Old January 4th 16, 11:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Edmund
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 18:05:01 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nano...-carbon-fiber-

kevlar/23959/
Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than Kevlar or
carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers stronger
than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


Without reading the article :
Stronger then steel on a strength to weight basis isn't very spectacular
and no reason at all to use on a bicycle.
Simple Alu is at least twice as strong as steel on a strength to weight
basis.

Edmund
  #4  
Old January 4th 16, 12:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 18:05:01 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nanocrystals-stronger-carbon-fiber-kevlar/23959/
Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than
Kevlar or carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers
stronger than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


After reading about how to make micro fibers and then bind them into
larger strands I suspect that the NEW$ bikes will likely cost more
then carbon fiber :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #5  
Old January 4th 16, 05:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On 1/3/2016 6:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nanocrystals-stronger-carbon-fiber-kevlar/23959/
Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than
Kevlar or carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers
stronger than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


Can John drill holes in it?

  #6  
Old January 4th 16, 05:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,563
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On 04/01/16 16:17, sms wrote:
On 1/3/2016 6:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nanocrystals-stronger-carbon-fiber-kevlar/23959/

Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than
Kevlar or carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers
stronger than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


Can John drill holes in it?


You mean like Holeywood?


  #7  
Old January 4th 16, 06:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 10:37:48 -0000 (UTC), Edmund
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 18:05:01 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nano...-carbon-fiber-

kevlar/23959/
Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than Kevlar or
carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers stronger
than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


Without reading the article :


Just read between the lines.

Stronger then steel on a strength to weight basis isn't very spectacular
and no reason at all to use on a bicycle.


Strength to weight ratio is also known as specific strength:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength
Click on the "specific strength" column heading to sort by specific
strength. Scraping the data for cycling relevant materials:

Material Specific Strength
kN-m/kg
Carbon Fiber 2457
Glass Fiber 1307
Balsa Wood 521
Bainite 321
Titanium 228
Aluminum 204 (7075-T6)
Stainless Steel 63.1 (304)

Simple Alu is at least twice as strong as steel on a strength to weight
basis.


Nope. Bainite and 7075-T6 are about the strongest steel and aluminum
alloys available. Looks like steel is about 50% stronger on the basis
of tensile strength to weight ratio.

To revitalize cycling, what is needed is a new frame material. While
once considered an exotic frame material, aluminum is now a
commonplace commodity. Carbon fiber, titanium, and magnesium are too
expensive. Bamboo and wood frames are more of an art form than
anything practical. Because of the manual labor content, they're also
expensive. Plastic has been limited to concept bikes for many years.
So, what's left?

I suggest a blown glass bicycle frame. Tempered glass can be made
very strong using thermal stress hardening. As long as you don't
crash, a glass frame should hold together. Glass parts can be easily
welded together with a gas torch. Same with frame alignment.
Obviously, some research into problems like being invisible in traffic
will need to be performed.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #8  
Old January 4th 16, 06:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On 1/4/2016 11:17 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 10:37:48 -0000 (UTC), Edmund
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 18:05:01 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nano...-carbon-fiber-

kevlar/23959/
Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than Kevlar or
carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers stronger
than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


Without reading the article :


Just read between the lines.

Stronger then steel on a strength to weight basis isn't very spectacular
and no reason at all to use on a bicycle.


Strength to weight ratio is also known as specific strength:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength
Click on the "specific strength" column heading to sort by specific
strength. Scraping the data for cycling relevant materials:

Material Specific Strength
kN-m/kg
Carbon Fiber 2457
Glass Fiber 1307
Balsa Wood 521
Bainite 321
Titanium 228
Aluminum 204 (7075-T6)
Stainless Steel 63.1 (304)

Simple Alu is at least twice as strong as steel on a strength to weight
basis.


Nope. Bainite and 7075-T6 are about the strongest steel and aluminum
alloys available. Looks like steel is about 50% stronger on the basis
of tensile strength to weight ratio.

To revitalize cycling, what is needed is a new frame material. While
once considered an exotic frame material, aluminum is now a
commonplace commodity. Carbon fiber, titanium, and magnesium are too
expensive. Bamboo and wood frames are more of an art form than
anything practical. Because of the manual labor content, they're also
expensive. Plastic has been limited to concept bikes for many years.
So, what's left?

I suggest a blown glass bicycle frame. Tempered glass can be made
very strong using thermal stress hardening. As long as you don't
crash, a glass frame should hold together. Glass parts can be easily
welded together with a gas torch. Same with frame alignment.
Obviously, some research into problems like being invisible in traffic
will need to be performed.



Reading between the lines, as you suggest, leads us to
consider that there are different kinds of 'strength'.
Classically, oaks snap in storms which only bend willows.

Light and durable can be hard to sell without enough
torsional stiffness for example and also ultra-thin aluminum
with wall to diameter beyond about 1:55 is prone to
'beer-can' failures, etc. There's no simple 'best'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #9  
Old January 4th 16, 06:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 18:10:37 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 2:05:01 AM UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
"Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar"
http://www.gizmag.com/cellulose-nanocrystals-stronger-carbon-fiber-kevlar/23959/
Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than
Kevlar or carbon fibers...

"Biodegradable fibers as strong as steel made from wood cellulose"
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-strong-fibers-wood-cellulose/32432/
...claim to have developed a way to make cellulose fibers
stronger than steel on a strength-to-weight basis.

Soon everyone will be riding on wood pulp or cellulose fiber bicycles.


Papier mache bicycles. Lovely. I shall be the world's leading expert.


So, which cardboard bicycle are you going to buy, build, or clone?
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cardboard+bicycle
In sufficient quantity, these paper bicycles can be made very cheaply.
They also solve the bicycle parking and theft problem. When you
arrive, instead of locking your bicycle to an immovable object, you
simply remove the wheels and metal parts, set fire to the cardboard
frame, and go about your business. For the return trip, you purchase
an "insert tab A into slot B" type cardboard frame from a street
vendor and reassemble the wheels and metal parts.

Hmmm... I forgot to mention my inflatable bicycle.

An expert is a guy who tells everyone else what to ride while
he sticks to his comfortable old steel bike.


Do like I say, not like I do.




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #10  
Old January 4th 16, 06:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Cellulose stronger than steel. Wood pulp stronger than CF.

On Mon, 04 Jan 2016 11:27:01 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

Reading between the lines, as you suggest, leads us to
consider that there are different kinds of 'strength'.


On the strength of that argument, I would agree. There's also
hardness, toughness, elasticity, plasticity, brittleness, ductility,
malleability, and whatever else I forgot.

Classically, oaks snap in storms which only bend willows.


Yep. Oak isn't as ductile as willow.

Light and durable can be hard to sell without enough
torsional stiffness for example and also ultra-thin aluminum
with wall to diameter beyond about 1:55 is prone to
'beer-can' failures, etc. There's no simple 'best'.


If you're building frames intended to only last one race, then such
failures can be tolerated. Building to the brink of failure is a
common practice among those who ignore safety concerns.

Personally, I think the major progress will be in layered frame tubing
material. Layers of different materials, each optimized for the best
characteristics of the material, and combined to demonstrate that
characteristic under specific conditions. For example, your
"beer-can" problem can be reduced by pressurizing the inside of the
tube, or hardening the outside to prevent the initial stress riser
from forming. The price of such tubing will initially be outrageous,
but should drop.

Gotta run...

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




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