I hate having to buy a gruppo

On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 2:41:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:

105 is bulletproof but also it isn't repairable if something does break. And I don't like having to do that double bend on the new version shift wires.

Repairable? I've cycled for one or two years. I've broken a few spokes. Repaired them easily. Broken a pedal spindle. Replaced with new pedal. Broken an early Ergo internals. Repaired with the commonly sold part to fix this slightly defective part. Worn out some bar end shifters. They no longer clicked cleanly so tossed away. Not sure I've broken anything else. Not sure what this "repairable" thing you speak of is. Broken parts on bikes are just replaced with a new part. No one repairs the broken part. A bike is not a damaged car body panel where they take Bondo and fix the dents.. You just throw the broken part away and put on a new part. Kind of like with chains and cassettes. You don't fix them. You just replace them.

Double bend on the shift wires? You mean taping the wires to the bars and bending them around the corner and when it comes out at the stem? Is this too difficult for you to figure out? If you ever do figure out how to make the bends, you will discover that the STI shifters and brakes work very, very, very well.

On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 2:41:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:

105 is bulletproof but also it isn't repairable if something does break.. And I don't like having to do that double bend on the new version shift wires.

Repairable? I've cycled for one or two years. I've broken a few spokes. Repaired them easily. Broken a pedal spindle. Replaced with new pedal. Broken an early Ergo internals. Repaired with the commonly sold part to fix this slightly defective part. Worn out some bar end shifters. They no longer clicked cleanly so tossed away. Not sure I've broken anything else. Not sure what this "repairable" thing you speak of is. Broken parts on bikes are just replaced with a new part. No one repairs the broken part. A bike is not a damaged car body panel where they take Bondo and fix the dents. You just throw the broken part away and put on a new part. Kind of like with chains and cassettes. You don't fix them. You just replace them.

Double bend on the shift wires? You mean taping the wires to the bars and bending them around the corner and when it comes out at the stem? Is this too difficult for you to figure out? If you ever do figure out how to make the bends, you will discover that the STI shifters and brakes work very, very, very well.

The 105 stuff is riveted together where the Ultegra parts have screws. The expensive component is the levers so being able to repair those is important in my book. That's why I always use Campy.

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 7:36:09 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 11:22:26 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 10:53:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Wow, you're right, Jay, that is really a smokin' deal.

I am just about to go ahead and order it, except:

Is there any way to convert the braze-on front derailleur to a clamp?

And I wonder how much extra the Shimano 105 bottom bracket would cost?

Yes, separate claims for braze-on FDs are widely available. e.g. https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-d.../10769290.html

I can walk down the street and buy an Ultegra Italiano BB for $19.99: https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...VgfgodQbE AKQ

I might even get a discount because I'm a LEADER'S CLUB member. I repeat, not a loser follower. A LEADER!

Your expense will be respacing the rear triangle and getting an 11sp compatible rear hub -- assuming you don't want to do it at home. And you'll have to make the investment in a BB wrench -- if you don't have one for another bike, and a cassette tool. Also consider a decent torque wrench to get the pinch-bolts on the crank just right. Modern technology comes at a price.

How do you respace aluminum or carbon frames?

I REALLY like my steel frames now.

How about bamboo frames? Can those things be cold-set?

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:15:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 2:41:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:

105 is bulletproof but also it isn't repairable if something does break. And I don't like having to do that double bend on the new version shift wires.

Repairable? I've cycled for one or two years. I've broken a few spokes. Repaired them easily. Broken a pedal spindle. Replaced with new pedal.. Broken an early Ergo internals. Repaired with the commonly sold part to fix this slightly defective part. Worn out some bar end shifters. They no longer clicked cleanly so tossed away. Not sure I've broken anything else. Not sure what this "repairable" thing you speak of is. Broken parts on bikes are just replaced with a new part. No one repairs the broken part. A bike is not a damaged car body panel where they take Bondo and fix the dents. You just throw the broken part away and put on a new part. Kind of like with chains and cassettes. You don't fix them. You just replace them..

Double bend on the shift wires? You mean taping the wires to the bars and bending them around the corner and when it comes out at the stem? Is this too difficult for you to figure out? If you ever do figure out how to make the bends, you will discover that the STI shifters and brakes work very, very, very well.

The 105 stuff is riveted together where the Ultegra parts have screws. The expensive component is the levers so being able to repair those is important in my book. That's why I always use Campy.

What do you think about RX-100 7 speed? That was a great grouppo

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 11:22:28 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:15:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 2:41:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:

105 is bulletproof but also it isn't repairable if something does break. And I don't like having to do that double bend on the new version shift wires.

Repairable? I've cycled for one or two years. I've broken a few spokes. Repaired them easily. Broken a pedal spindle. Replaced with new pedal. Broken an early Ergo internals. Repaired with the commonly sold part to fix this slightly defective part. Worn out some bar end shifters. They no longer clicked cleanly so tossed away. Not sure I've broken anything else. Not sure what this "repairable" thing you speak of is. Broken parts on bikes are just replaced with a new part. No one repairs the broken part.. A bike is not a damaged car body panel where they take Bondo and fix the dents. You just throw the broken part away and put on a new part. Kind of like with chains and cassettes. You don't fix them. You just replace them.

Double bend on the shift wires? You mean taping the wires to the bars and bending them around the corner and when it comes out at the stem? Is this too difficult for you to figure out? If you ever do figure out how to make the bends, you will discover that the STI shifters and brakes work very, very, very well.

The 105 stuff is riveted together where the Ultegra parts have screws. The expensive component is the levers so being able to repair those is important in my book. That's why I always use Campy.

What do you think about RX-100 7 speed? That was a great grouppo

I believe that the RX-100 was the 105 of that time.

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:15:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 2:41:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:

105 is bulletproof but also it isn't repairable if something does break. And I don't like having to do that double bend on the new version shift wires.

Repairable? I've cycled for one or two years. I've broken a few spokes. Repaired them easily. Broken a pedal spindle. Replaced with new pedal.. Broken an early Ergo internals. Repaired with the commonly sold part to fix this slightly defective part. Worn out some bar end shifters. They no longer clicked cleanly so tossed away. Not sure I've broken anything else. Not sure what this "repairable" thing you speak of is. Broken parts on bikes are just replaced with a new part. No one repairs the broken part. A bike is not a damaged car body panel where they take Bondo and fix the dents. You just throw the broken part away and put on a new part. Kind of like with chains and cassettes. You don't fix them. You just replace them..

Double bend on the shift wires? You mean taping the wires to the bars and bending them around the corner and when it comes out at the stem? Is this too difficult for you to figure out? If you ever do figure out how to make the bends, you will discover that the STI shifters and brakes work very, very, very well.

The 105 stuff is riveted together where the Ultegra parts have screws. The expensive component is the levers so being able to repair those is important in my book. That's why I always use Campy.

Ultegra shifters have lots of tiny screws and internals that if broken, cannot be replaced. IMO, as a practical matter, Ultegra shifters are no more repairable than 105. OTOH, they may be more durable than 105 -- but I've been beating on the 9sp 105 shifters on my commuter bike for probably 15 years without any major problems, and I do nothing to maintain them except an occasional shot of lubricant. Ultegra is certainly better finished and prettier.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 01/05/2017 3:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:15:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 2:41:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:

105 is bulletproof but also it isn't repairable if something does break. And I don't like having to do that double bend on the new version shift wires.

Repairable? I've cycled for one or two years. I've broken a few spokes. Repaired them easily. Broken a pedal spindle. Replaced with new pedal. Broken an early Ergo internals. Repaired with the commonly sold part to fix this slightly defective part. Worn out some bar end shifters. They no longer clicked cleanly so tossed away. Not sure I've broken anything else. Not sure what this "repairable" thing you speak of is. Broken parts on bikes are just replaced with a new part. No one repairs the broken part. A bike is not a damaged car body panel where they take Bondo and fix the dents. You just throw the broken part away and put on a new part. Kind of like with chains and cassettes. You don't fix them. You just replace them.

Double bend on the shift wires? You mean taping the wires to the bars and bending them around the corner and when it comes out at the stem? Is this too difficult for you to figure out? If you ever do figure out how to make the bends, you will discover that the STI shifters and brakes work very, very, very well.

The 105 stuff is riveted together where the Ultegra parts have screws. The expensive component is the levers so being able to repair those is important in my book. That's why I always use Campy.

Ultegra shifters have lots of tiny screws and internals that if broken, cannot be replaced. IMO, as a practical matter, Ultegra shifters are no more repairable than 105. OTOH, they may be more durable than 105 -- but I've been beating on the 9sp 105 shifters on my commuter bike for probably 15 years without any major problems, and I do nothing to maintain them except an occasional shot of lubricant. Ultegra is certainly better finished and prettier.



I've used 105 10sp, Ultegra 10sp and now SRAM 11sp and I find them all
reliable. I haven't actually broken any so I have not had to repair
them. I think the 105s are probably the best bang for the buck though.

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 12:16:14 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 11:22:28 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:15:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 2:41:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:

105 is bulletproof but also it isn't repairable if something does break. And I don't like having to do that double bend on the new version shift wires.

Repairable? I've cycled for one or two years. I've broken a few spokes. Repaired them easily. Broken a pedal spindle. Replaced with new pedal. Broken an early Ergo internals. Repaired with the commonly sold part to fix this slightly defective part. Worn out some bar end shifters. They no longer clicked cleanly so tossed away. Not sure I've broken anything else. Not sure what this "repairable" thing you speak of is. Broken parts on bikes are just replaced with a new part. No one repairs the broken part. A bike is not a damaged car body panel where they take Bondo and fix the dents. You just throw the broken part away and put on a new part. Kind of like with chains and cassettes. You don't fix them. You just replace them.

Double bend on the shift wires? You mean taping the wires to the bars and bending them around the corner and when it comes out at the stem? Is this too difficult for you to figure out? If you ever do figure out how to make the bends, you will discover that the STI shifters and brakes work very, very, very well.

The 105 stuff is riveted together where the Ultegra parts have screws.. The expensive component is the levers so being able to repair those is important in my book. That's why I always use Campy.

What do you think about RX-100 7 speed? That was a great grouppo

I believe that the RX-100 was the 105 of that time.

It was the Sora of the time. There was 105.

At that time, folks on this group were saying that 105, Ultegra, and Dura-Ace are all of the same materials and construction; the only difference was the degree of sculpting they received to shave grams.

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 9:15:17 AM UTC-5, wrote:

The 105 stuff is riveted together where the Ultegra parts have screws. The expensive component is the levers so being able to repair those is important in my book. That's why I always use Campy.


Rivets are better than screws. They cannot come loose. Never need to repair them. You obviously are ignorant of how old skyscrapers were built. They were riveted together. I have not heard of any old skyscrapers falling down recently. Rivets must work pretty well. You always have to retighten screws. I doubt newer Campagnolo can be repaired. Not economically anyway. Why pay 99% of retail price to repair something? Nothing is repaired now days because its cheaper to replace with new.

On 5/1/2017 1:38 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 7:36:09 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 11:22:26 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 10:53:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Wow, you're right, Jay, that is really a smokin' deal.

I am just about to go ahead and order it, except:

Is there any way to convert the braze-on front derailleur to a clamp?

And I wonder how much extra the Shimano 105 bottom bracket would cost?

Yes, separate claims for braze-on FDs are widely available. e.g. https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-d.../10769290.html

I can walk down the street and buy an Ultegra Italiano BB for $19.99: https://www.westernbikeworks.com/pro...VgfgodQbE AKQ

I might even get a discount because I'm a LEADER'S CLUB member. I repeat, not a loser follower. A LEADER!

Your expense will be respacing the rear triangle and getting an 11sp compatible rear hub -- assuming you don't want to do it at home. And you'll have to make the investment in a BB wrench -- if you don't have one for another bike, and a cassette tool. Also consider a decent torque wrench to get the pinch-bolts on the crank just right. Modern technology comes at a price.

How do you respace aluminum or carbon frames?

I REALLY like my steel frames now.

How about bamboo frames? Can those things be cold-set?

Oak can be steam bent. It might work for bamboo. If it can, Andrew's
probably already done it.

--
- Frank Krygowski