Spokes/nipples, etc. for CXP33/Chris King wheels

SNIP

it's not a function of hub strength, it's hub geometry. if you loo
at
the latest version of damon rinard's spoke calculator, he has a
calculation for the tension ratio between left & right sides of
dished
wheel. the formula is accessible if you're curious, but basically
the
smaller the distance from the center to the drive side flange, as i
the
case with a dished rear, the greater the disparity in bracing angles
between the two sides. ck is 18.5mm, dura-ace is 21.1mm.

bracing angle is important for spoke tension because if the left side
tension is too low, and you're not using some form of thread lock, you
can have nipples loosening in use and have issues with keeping the rim
true. excessive slack can lead to spoke fatigue issues too. a
21.1mm,
shimano gives about 65% tension ratio, the ck only 57%. you can'
just
increase right side tension to compensate because that can exceed rim
spec and the ratio is strictly a function of geometry.

excessively shallow bracing angle also affects lateral stabilit
because
as bracing angle decreases, lateral flexibility increases.


What is it a/b the revos that makes them harder to build wit
compared
with the comps?

they're skinny so they have a lot of torsional twist. it's best to
practice with a few other wheel builds to get your hand in befor
using
skinny spokes - takes a lot more time & patience, so it's good to be
confident you know what you're doing first.


Michael, I do intend on playing with some old and/or cheap stuff
have
laying around before building up this set.

Thank you both for the feedback.

one final thing about the ck, while it is a beautifully made hub, it
also has an aluminum freehub body. call me old fashioned, but when i
remove a cassette and find the freehub body all mangled because the
alloy is not strong enough to cope with individual sprocket loadings
i
have a problem with the $350-odd i just spent on that hub. there's a
reason shimano use steel or ti on their shallow toothed freehub bodie
-
those materials can take the loads resulting from their shallo
toothed
cassette design. aluminum can't. if you want aluminum, you have t
go
with the deep tooth design of the campy or d-a 10. but ck is not
available for campy, so you can't even use a campy cassette!!!
CK hub geometry is not a problem with most riders (no Chalo sized rider
should use the road one). If it were a problem, modern Campagnolo woul
be more of a problem as their bracing angle is even less on the driv
side. Many competitive riders that are stronger and heavier than th
original poster ride Campagnolo without any of the dire problem
projected by Jim Beam.
It is true that you will get more wind-up with Revolution or Laser 14/1
DB spokes than with 14/15 Competition or Race spokes. However, you wil
get some wind-up with any spoke and you need to deal with it. Don't le
the fear of wind-up keep you from using 14/17 spokes. It may take
little extra time and patience, but I wouldn't let this deter you. I
you want to build a wheel fast, pick up a rim, front hub, and straigh
gauge spokes, and build it radial with heads out. I don't suggest tha
you really do that, but my point is that taking a few extra operations i
part of the learning curve and you should aim to get the best for you.
If you don't already own a spoke wrench I suggest Spokey brand. Spoke
looks cheap, but in fact it is reliable, secure, and helps keep you fro
scarring the rim surfaces surrounding the spoke holes. I have buil
dozens of CXP-33 wheels with Spokey wrench , 12 mm Sapim Polyax plate
brass nipples, Sapim Laser front/left rear & Sapim Race right with n
problems (the last ones are 32H Chris King)
If you already have a Chris King hub with aluminum freehub body I woul
go ahead and use it. Using DURA ACE or other cassettes that have all th
lower gears joined on a carrier will help spread the load. Yes, you wil
see some distortion on the aluminum freehub. I suggest you torque th
cassette down per specifications and remove it after some riding to se
the progress of the distortion. Chris King makes a Stainless Steel Drive
Shell that can be used as a replacement as required. If you are going to
buy just the shell you will need the expensive Chris King hub service
tool. However, you can buy the entire Freehub assembly that can easily be
installed with just a couple of 5 mm Allen wrenches once you remove the
cassette from the freehub.
Deep groove cassettes like the 10 speed DURA ACE don't fit the Chris
King.
If you would like direct communications regarding your build you can drop
me an email.
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
dave at ornee dot net


--
daveornee

If you want your wheels to be light and aero, consider the Wheelsmith
AE15 spokes. They are butted 1.8/1.6/1.8 spokes that are ovalized in
the middle... suitable for the front and the left rear (use
2.0/1.7-1.8/2.0 for the right rear). They are easier to build with than
revolutions, since you can see if the spoke is straight, and fashion a
clamp to hold it as you turn the nipple. OddsandEndos.com is a good
source, and they are pretty cheap, too... $0.59 each last time I
looked.

-Ron

Ron Ruff wrote:
If you want your wheels to be light and aero, consider the Wheelsmith
AE15 spokes. They are butted 1.8/1.6/1.8 spokes that are ovalized in
the middle... suitable for the front and the left rear (use
2.0/1.7-1.8/2.0 for the right rear). They are easier to build with than
revolutions, since you can see if the spoke is straight, and fashion a
clamp to hold it as you turn the nipple. OddsandEndos.com is a good
source, and they are pretty cheap, too... $0.59 each last time I
looked.

-Ron

Just a note on WS spokes. We have a pack of them taken off wheels built
by WS, that all failed in the middle. failed in that they gace up their
strength in the middle, started stretching and then failed. Turning the
nipple tighter trying to move the rim to that side and the rim actually
moved the opposite way. About 20 so far. would not use WS spokes for
any application. DT or Sapim, except Sapin distributor keeps only
liminted sizes, mostly even mms only and I think their nipps are WAY
over priced.

Great feedback. Thank you all!