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  #21  
Old June 18th 18, 06:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2,801
Default Helmet News

On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 00:01:08 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:

I wonder whether there is still a category of hard hat called a "bump
cap"? Wikipedia said yes, but the link led to a page on which the
word "bump" does not appear. DuckDuckGo says that I can buy dozens of
different styles at Grainger.


They're very much still alive. I have one. Basically, a bump cap is
rather thin plastic safety helmet, sometimes with a cloth cover making
it look something like a very large baseball cap.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bump+cap&tbm=isch
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=bump+cap
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=bump+cap+baseball+-insert
They're not made to deflect falling objects, but rather to deal with
clumsy fools like me that have a tendency to smash into overhanging
construction elements. None of them are DOT, ECE, or SNELL rated. I
have no idea if they are suitable for bicycle riding. Probably not as
there's almost no ventilation and would probably be like wearing a
sauna.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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  #22  
Old June 18th 18, 06:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2,801
Default Helmet News

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 22:40:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
(...)

I was hoping to find something in the way of a fashionable bump cap.
They all seems to looks like baseball caps. This is as close to
something fashionable that I could find:
https://www.ishn.com/articles/100645-new-bump-cap-styles-by-bon-mar-textiles
Nothing in the way of foil coverings to protect the brain from evil
cell phone signals. No paint on Skid Lids. No dazzle camouflage.
Nothing resembling a derby or top hat. All I found were very boring.
I think there may be a fashion opportunity here for bump cap covers.
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #23  
Old June 18th 18, 09:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,258
Default Helmet News

On 6/15/2018 3:52 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Well, it was a mail fraud and federal counterfeiting case, so helmet safety was not really the issue, but the fact is that these knock-offs were junk.

I've smashed two or three helmets, so having one that works to the extent they can work is a good thing. No, they don't protect you from all harms, etc., etc. (please refer to last 25 years of posts), but they can protect against certain harms if well manufactured.


Left unsaid was:

a) did the counterfeit helmets pass or fail the CPSC test.
b) did they test the genuine helmets in the same way.

The fact that a helmet breaks upon impact is not new or something bad,
they are single impact devices. They are not like football helmets.

"In an inelastic collision, the objects in the collision absorb energy.
In this case, the bike helmet should absorb as much of the energy as
possible. It should slow your head down as gradually as possible,
without sending it back in the opposite direction from the point of impact.

In the process, that bike helmet is probably going to crush, and not
bounce back. In fact, it may break into pieces. In any case, it’s not
going to keep the shape it had before the crash.

That’s a good thing."

  #24  
Old June 18th 18, 09:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,258
Default Helmet News

On 6/17/2018 11:47 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

I think there is no doubt a helmet helps
against those injuries.


The data is clear that helmets are making a big difference.

"five well conducted case‐control studies and found that helmets provide
a 63–88% reduction in the risk of head, brain and severe brain injury
for all ages of bicyclists. Helmets were found to provide equal levels
of protection for crashes involving motor vehicles (69%) and crashes
from all other causes (68%). Furthermore, injuries to the upper and mid
facial areas were found to be reduced by 65%, although helmets did not
prevent lower facial injuries."
  #25  
Old June 18th 18, 01:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,492
Default Helmet News

On 6/18/2018 12:57 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 22:40:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
(...)

I was hoping to find something in the way of a fashionable bump cap.
They all seems to looks like baseball caps. This is as close to
something fashionable that I could find:
https://www.ishn.com/articles/100645-new-bump-cap-styles-by-bon-mar-textiles
Nothing in the way of foil coverings to protect the brain from evil
cell phone signals. No paint on Skid Lids. No dazzle camouflage.
Nothing resembling a derby or top hat. All I found were very boring.
I think there may be a fashion opportunity here for bump cap covers.


we have a smattering of these:
https://img0.etsystatic.com/187/0/68...81052_kk5u.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/272212...-1/s-l1000.jpg

https://www.baggersmag.com/sites/bag...mOVnl&fc=50,50

Pressed steel, 'just for looks', meet no standards of any
sort, $29.95.



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #26  
Old June 18th 18, 02:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,151
Default Helmet News

On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 6:58:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/17/2018 2:10 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 10:00:25 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But nationwide data makes it fairly clear that
approved helmets aren't making much of a difference at all, despite
hundreds of gullible "it saved my life!!!" stories.

- Frank Krygowski


I've been involved in a few bike accidents over the decades. One without a helmet. Still have the scar on my forehead 35+ years later to remind me of that day. Not a day I really care to remember. Others I was wearing a helmet. Nothing to remind me of those accidents except my memory. Well I do have a scar under my eye from one accident. Helmet was not a full face motorcycle helmet so under my eye was exposed. Went to the emergency room to get some stitches put in my face. My experience says its better to be wearing a helmet when you wreck that not wear a helmet.


I avoid wrecking.


Yes, we know.


I remember one mountain bike ride long ago with, oh, maybe 8 other guys.
I had no helmet. All others but one (IIRC) did.

The ride was in a recreation area set aside for mountain bikes, dirt
motorcycles, four wheelers, etc. Sure enough, at one point the crew
decided to "get big air" by riding down into a gully and up the other
side, then launching into the air.

I decided it was too dangerous. The helmeted guys felt protected - until
one crashed and broke his collarbone. The ride ended as we walked him
back to his car.

I believe in risk compensation.


Yes, we know. So how does that work with getting hit by a car, wiping out on ice, going OTB after getting hung up in a dog leash? Basically all of my riding would be considered risk compensation. The times I've crushed helmets, I was doing what I did decades ago without a helmet. I don't care if you or anyone else wears a helmet, but I have gotten good use out of mine, if only avoiding scalp lacerations.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #27  
Old June 18th 18, 03:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,492
Default Helmet News

On 6/18/2018 8:59 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 6:58:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/17/2018 2:10 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 10:00:25 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But nationwide data makes it fairly clear that
approved helmets aren't making much of a difference at all, despite
hundreds of gullible "it saved my life!!!" stories.

- Frank Krygowski

I've been involved in a few bike accidents over the decades. One without a helmet. Still have the scar on my forehead 35+ years later to remind me of that day. Not a day I really care to remember. Others I was wearing a helmet. Nothing to remind me of those accidents except my memory. Well I do have a scar under my eye from one accident. Helmet was not a full face motorcycle helmet so under my eye was exposed. Went to the emergency room to get some stitches put in my face. My experience says its better to be wearing a helmet when you wreck that not wear a helmet.


I avoid wrecking.


Yes, we know.


I remember one mountain bike ride long ago with, oh, maybe 8 other guys.
I had no helmet. All others but one (IIRC) did.

The ride was in a recreation area set aside for mountain bikes, dirt
motorcycles, four wheelers, etc. Sure enough, at one point the crew
decided to "get big air" by riding down into a gully and up the other
side, then launching into the air.

I decided it was too dangerous. The helmeted guys felt protected - until
one crashed and broke his collarbone. The ride ended as we walked him
back to his car.

I believe in risk compensation.


Yes, we know. So how does that work with getting hit by a car, wiping out on ice, going OTB after getting hung up in a dog leash? Basically all of my riding would be considered risk compensation. The times I've crushed helmets, I was doing what I did decades ago without a helmet. I don't care if you or anyone else wears a helmet, but I have gotten good use out of mine, if only avoiding scalp lacerations.



+1
No one wakes up in the morning planning to die in a bike wreck:

https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/a...fter-bike-fall

To call her 'inexpert' or 'deficit in cycling skills' or
'should have completed the Effective Cycling course' and so
on is ridiculous.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #28  
Old June 18th 18, 03:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 137
Default Helmet News

On 18/06/2018 9:59 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 6:58:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/17/2018 2:10 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 10:00:25 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But nationwide data makes it fairly clear that
approved helmets aren't making much of a difference at all, despite
hundreds of gullible "it saved my life!!!" stories.

- Frank Krygowski

I've been involved in a few bike accidents over the decades. One without a helmet. Still have the scar on my forehead 35+ years later to remind me of that day. Not a day I really care to remember. Others I was wearing a helmet. Nothing to remind me of those accidents except my memory. Well I do have a scar under my eye from one accident. Helmet was not a full face motorcycle helmet so under my eye was exposed. Went to the emergency room to get some stitches put in my face. My experience says its better to be wearing a helmet when you wreck that not wear a helmet.


I avoid wrecking.


Yes, we know.


I remember one mountain bike ride long ago with, oh, maybe 8 other guys.
I had no helmet. All others but one (IIRC) did.

The ride was in a recreation area set aside for mountain bikes, dirt
motorcycles, four wheelers, etc. Sure enough, at one point the crew
decided to "get big air" by riding down into a gully and up the other
side, then launching into the air.

I decided it was too dangerous. The helmeted guys felt protected - until
one crashed and broke his collarbone. The ride ended as we walked him
back to his car.

I believe in risk compensation.


Yes, we know. So how does that work with getting hit by a car, wiping out on ice, going OTB after getting hung up in a dog leash? Basically all of my riding would be considered risk compensation. The times I've crushed helmets, I was doing what I did decades ago without a helmet. I don't care if you or anyone else wears a helmet, but I have gotten good use out of mine, if only avoiding scalp lacerations.

-- Jay Beattie.


+1
  #29  
Old June 18th 18, 04:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2,801
Default Helmet News

On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 07:49:06 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/18/2018 12:57 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 22:40:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
(...)

I was hoping to find something in the way of a fashionable bump cap.
They all seems to looks like baseball caps. This is as close to
something fashionable that I could find:
https://www.ishn.com/articles/100645-new-bump-cap-styles-by-bon-mar-textiles
Nothing in the way of foil coverings to protect the brain from evil
cell phone signals. No paint on Skid Lids. No dazzle camouflage.
Nothing resembling a derby or top hat. All I found were very boring.
I think there may be a fashion opportunity here for bump cap covers.


we have a smattering of these:
https://img0.etsystatic.com/187/0/68...81052_kk5u.jpg


Horse riding helmet:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=horse+riding+helmet
The better one's seem rather expensive. Most are ASTM/SEI approved.
https://www.troxelhelmets.com/pages/helmet-certifications

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/272212...-1/s-l1000.jpg


WWII German army helmet. The WWI helmets were better because they
included a pickelhaube on top.

https://www.baggersmag.com/sites/bag...mOVnl&fc=50,50


Salad bowl with a chin strap? Kinda crude and certainly not very
fashionable.

Pressed steel, 'just for looks', meet no standards of any
sort, $29.95.


Yes, but lacking in style, fashion, and elegance. The British seem to
know how to design proper helmets. For example:
http://www.linkorient.com/ceremonial-helmet/

If you're going to specify or design a bicycle helmet, think style,
fashion, unique, and looking cool first. Once those are established
and there's any money left, you can deal with price and protection.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #30  
Old June 18th 18, 06:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,969
Default Helmet News

On 6/18/2018 10:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/18/2018 8:59 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 6:58:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I avoid wrecking.


....

I believe in risk compensation.


Yes, we know. So how does that work with getting hit by a car, wiping
out on ice, going OTB after getting hung up in a dog leash?


It does work out somehow, Jay. I take measures to prevent all those
things, successfully. In some cases (riding on ice) the measure is to
avoid it. Note, you seem to sometimes get ice when we might get snow -
but I do ride in snow. Very carefully. Falls have been rare and injuries
nonexistent, except for an "ouch!" bump on the back of my head when I
was about 16. (I suppose if I'd worn a bike helmet then, people would
have said it saved my life.)

I'm willing to slow down for a dog on a leash, including the last one
that came out after me about five days ago. It's a known hazard; I watch
for it. The same is true for gravel on turns, potholes, motorists who
may turn left across my path, etc.

I don't care much for the story that goes "I goofed up and crashed, and
that proves helmets are great."

No one wakes up in the morning planning to die in a bike wreck:

https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/a...fter-bike-fall

To call her 'inexpert' or 'deficit in cycling skills' or 'should have
completed the Effective Cycling course' and so on is ridiculous.


Apparently nobody knows the cause of her crash. We can't say if it was
due to a mistake that she made, or something else.

But I note that every cycling photo of her on several sites showed her
wearing a helmet. So what's the lesson here? "Always wear your helmet
because this lady died despite wearing a helmet?"

Bike fatalities are rare - far more rare than pedestrian fatalities, for
example. But in that small population of bike fatalities, helmeted
fatalities are not uncommon.

You can usually spot them in the news reports. When a person wearing a
helmet dies, the helmet is often not mentioned, as in this case. When a
person without a helmet dies, the news says "He was not wearing a
helmet," to put partial blame on the victim.

Of course, bicyclists and motorcyclists are the only ones subject to
that blame. The far greater numbers of dead pedestrians and motorists
are not shamed about their lack of plastic headwear, for some reason.

--
- Frank Krygowski

---
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