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drill/tap in frames



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 9th 18, 07:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default drill/tap in frames

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 16:21:43 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

:sms wrote:
::On 7/7/2018 7:27 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
:: Are there any secrets to drilling holes in
:: steel bike frames? I have a couple of discarded
:: ones I can test on but I thought I'd
:: ask anyway.
::
:: Do you use normal power hand tools like
:: a drill-screwdriver and/or a drill press (if
:: possible with the desired bolt position)?
::
:: Do the normal rules apply, e.g. to get
:: a threaded hole for an M6, you first drill with
:: a 5.0mm drill?
::
:: And you can use chainsaw oil, right?
:
::As Jobst Brandt stated: "I don't know many riders who believe that
::drilling a hole in a frame tube is a reasonable concept."

:Who cares what riders think, what do the egineers do?

:Jobst Brandt was a mechanical engineer.
:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobst_Brandt

he was also wrong about many things. Every bike I've ever had has had
holes drilled in it. Clearly, there is a range of holes that do not
cause failure, and some that do. The question is where does a rivnut
fall? I wouldn't drill a 5 mm hole a on 26mm diameter tube, but they
work fine on large diamter ones.


--
sig 48
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  #22  
Old July 9th 18, 08:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,833
Default drill/tap in frames

On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 18:16:19 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 16:21:43 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

:sms wrote:
::On 7/7/2018 7:27 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
:: Are there any secrets to drilling holes in
:: steel bike frames? I have a couple of discarded
:: ones I can test on but I thought I'd
:: ask anyway.
::
:: Do you use normal power hand tools like
:: a drill-screwdriver and/or a drill press (if
:: possible with the desired bolt position)?
::
:: Do the normal rules apply, e.g. to get
:: a threaded hole for an M6, you first drill with
:: a 5.0mm drill?
::
:: And you can use chainsaw oil, right?
:
::As Jobst Brandt stated: "I don't know many riders who believe that
::drilling a hole in a frame tube is a reasonable concept."

:Who cares what riders think, what do the egineers do?

:Jobst Brandt was a mechanical engineer.
:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobst_Brandt


he was also wrong about many things.


I know. I locked horns with him on several issues where I was certain
that he was wrong. His mechanical engineering was superb. His
chemistry, not so good. Electronics, I don't recall.

Every bike I've ever had has had
holes drilled in it. Clearly, there is a range of holes that do not
cause failure, and some that do. The question is where does a rivnut
fall? I wouldn't drill a 5 mm hole a on 26mm diameter tube, but they
work fine on large diamter ones.


The OP is talking about installing Rivnuts in his chain stays in order
to repair some chain guard and fender supports. I'm too lazy to walk
over to my bicycle and measure them, but methinks they're much too
small diameter for a 5mm hole. The Rivnut would also not have much of
a flat surface in which to seat and might loosen and spin.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #23  
Old July 9th 18, 08:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,163
Default drill/tap in frames

On 7/8/2018 10:31 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/7/2018 7:27 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Are there any secrets to drilling holes in
steel bike frames? I have a couple of discarded
ones I can test on but I thought I'd
ask anyway.

Do you use normal power hand tools like
a drill-screwdriver and/or a drill press (if
possible with the desired bolt position)?

Do the normal rules apply, e.g. to get
a threaded hole for an M6, you first drill with
a 5.0mm drill?

And you can use chainsaw oil, right?


As Jobst Brandt stated: "I don't know many riders who believe that
drilling a hole in a frame tube is a reasonable concept."


Typical "sms" argument technique: Ignore the technical details. Instead,
appeal to authority.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...l-to-Authority


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #24  
Old July 9th 18, 08:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,163
Default drill/tap in frames

On 7/9/2018 3:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 18:16:19 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 16:21:43 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

:sms wrote:
::On 7/7/2018 7:27 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
:: Are there any secrets to drilling holes in
:: steel bike frames? I have a couple of discarded
:: ones I can test on but I thought I'd
:: ask anyway.
::
:: Do you use normal power hand tools like
:: a drill-screwdriver and/or a drill press (if
:: possible with the desired bolt position)?
::
:: Do the normal rules apply, e.g. to get
:: a threaded hole for an M6, you first drill with
:: a 5.0mm drill?
::
:: And you can use chainsaw oil, right?
:
::As Jobst Brandt stated: "I don't know many riders who believe that
::drilling a hole in a frame tube is a reasonable concept."

:Who cares what riders think, what do the egineers do?

:Jobst Brandt was a mechanical engineer.
:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobst_Brandt


he was also wrong about many things.


I know. I locked horns with him on several issues where I was certain
that he was wrong. His mechanical engineering was superb. His
chemistry, not so good. Electronics, I don't recall.

Every bike I've ever had has had
holes drilled in it. Clearly, there is a range of holes that do not
cause failure, and some that do. The question is where does a rivnut
fall? I wouldn't drill a 5 mm hole a on 26mm diameter tube, but they
work fine on large diamter ones.


The OP is talking about installing Rivnuts in his chain stays in order
to repair some chain guard and fender supports. I'm too lazy to walk
over to my bicycle and measure them, but methinks they're much too
small diameter for a 5mm hole. The Rivnut would also not have much of
a flat surface in which to seat and might loosen and spin.


Actually, the OP was talking about drilling and tapping instead of
Rivnuts. And it wasn't clear to me, at least, exactly what portions of
the frame he was interested in tapping. A photo or two might help.



--
- Frank Krygowski
  #25  
Old July 10th 18, 02:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,833
Default drill/tap in frames

On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 15:26:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Actually, the OP was talking about drilling and tapping instead of
Rivnuts. And it wasn't clear to me, at least, exactly what portions of
the frame he was interested in tapping. A photo or two might help.


He started out talking about drilling and tapping, but switched in
midstream to Rivnuts. See:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/Cx1f1zC9TsM/uWXvnWNGBQAJ
I keep hearing this, but it isn't the case for
my bikes which have chainguards.

These have three stays, and of those, two are
mounted on the bike frame with M5 screws.
Threaded hole, no nut on the other side!

Then the chainguard is mounted on the stays,
likewise with M5s, threaded holes (only here
sometimes there are nuts as well).

The stays are about 1mm. How thick the frame
tube wall is I don't know, but I can take
a discarded frame and cut it with an angle
grinder to find out, God willing.

This ain't to say that rivnuts ain't a good
idea, of course.

This was the first mention of Rivnuts in the thread (I checked).

Also note that he indicates that "the chainguard is mounted on the
stays...". Which of the stays, he doesn't mention, but it doesn't
matter. Chain stays and seat stays are both rather small diameter.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #26  
Old July 10th 18, 03:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,163
Default drill/tap in frames

On 7/9/2018 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 15:26:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Actually, the OP was talking about drilling and tapping instead of
Rivnuts. And it wasn't clear to me, at least, exactly what portions of
the frame he was interested in tapping. A photo or two might help.


He started out talking about drilling and tapping, but switched in
midstream to Rivnuts. See:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/Cx1f1zC9TsM/uWXvnWNGBQAJ
I keep hearing this, but it isn't the case for
my bikes which have chainguards.

These have three stays, and of those, two are
mounted on the bike frame with M5 screws.
Threaded hole, no nut on the other side!

Then the chainguard is mounted on the stays,
likewise with M5s, threaded holes (only here
sometimes there are nuts as well).

The stays are about 1mm. How thick the frame
tube wall is I don't know, but I can take
a discarded frame and cut it with an angle
grinder to find out, God willing.

This ain't to say that rivnuts ain't a good
idea, of course.

This was the first mention of Rivnuts in the thread (I checked).


Actually, I mentioned Rivnuts when I posted the very first reply to
Emanuel's original post. That was about eight hours before the post you
quoted.

Also note that he indicates that "the chainguard is mounted on the
stays...". Which of the stays, he doesn't mention, but it doesn't
matter. Chain stays and seat stays are both rather small diameter.


The reason I'd like photos is that Emanuel seems to imply that a hole in
the stays is the original method of mounting the chainguard. I think
that's unlikely. I wondered if there are brazed-on tabs or some other
feature that we don't know about.

ISTM that Emanuel isn't very clear on many bike-related terms in
English, and he seems to be a novice mechanic in general. Some of his
descriptions may be unintentionally misleading.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #27  
Old July 10th 18, 03:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default drill/tap in frames

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 7/9/2018 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
: On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 15:26:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
: wrote:
: Actually, the OP was talking about drilling and tapping instead of
: Rivnuts. And it wasn't clear to me, at least, exactly what portions of
: the frame he was interested in tapping. A photo or two might help.
:
: He started out talking about drilling and tapping, but switched in
: midstream to Rivnuts. See:
: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/Cx1f1zC9TsM/uWXvnWNGBQAJ
: I keep hearing this, but it isn't the case for
: my bikes which have chainguards.
:
: These have three stays, and of those, two are
: mounted on the bike frame with M5 screws.
: Threaded hole, no nut on the other side!
:
: Then the chainguard is mounted on the stays,
: likewise with M5s, threaded holes (only here
: sometimes there are nuts as well).
:
: The stays are about 1mm. How thick the frame
: tube wall is I don't know, but I can take
: a discarded frame and cut it with an angle
: grinder to find out, God willing.
:
: This ain't to say that rivnuts ain't a good
: idea, of course.
:
: This was the first mention of Rivnuts in the thread (I checked).

:Actually, I mentioned Rivnuts when I posted the very first reply to
:Emanuel's original post. That was about eight hours before the post you
:quoted.

: Also note that he indicates that "the chainguard is mounted on the
: stays...". Which of the stays, he doesn't mention, but it doesn't
: matter. Chain stays and seat stays are both rather small diameter.

:The reason I'd like photos is that Emanuel seems to imply that a hole in
:the stays is the original method of mounting the chainguard. I think
:that's unlikely. I wondered if there are brazed-on tabs or some other
:feature that we don't know about.

I've seen stays with a through hole, and a threaded insert in the
hole.


--
sig 14
  #28  
Old July 10th 18, 11:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Earls61
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default drill/tap in frames

Why not use adel clamps? Some call them P clamps. It’s possible to attach them to the frame with rivnuts by enlarging the hole in the clamp and Installing the rivnut to secure the clamp. Then use a machine screw into the rivnut to attach the chain guard.
  #29  
Old July 11th 18, 01:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,298
Default drill/tap in frames

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 10:54:54 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 16:21:43 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

sms wrote:
:On 7/7/2018 7:27 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
: Are there any secrets to drilling holes in
: steel bike frames? I have a couple of discarded
: ones I can test on but I thought I'd
: ask anyway.
:
: Do you use normal power hand tools like
: a drill-screwdriver and/or a drill press (if
: possible with the desired bolt position)?
:
: Do the normal rules apply, e.g. to get
: a threaded hole for an M6, you first drill with
: a 5.0mm drill?
:
: And you can use chainsaw oil, right?

:As Jobst Brandt stated: "I don't know many riders who believe that
:drilling a hole in a frame tube is a reasonable concept."


Who cares what riders think, what do the egineers do?


Jobst Brandt was a mechanical engineer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobst_Brandt

What's an egineer?


http://media.nj.com/entertainment_im...0896-large.jpg It's a six year degree program at MIT.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #30  
Old July 11th 18, 01:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,833
Default drill/tap in frames

On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 17:01:09 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 10:54:54 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
What's an egineer?


http://media.nj.com/entertainment_im...0896-large.jpg It's a six year degree program at MIT.
-- Jay Beattie.


Ummm... thanks, I think. The results of over-egineering are epidemic.
Some examples:
http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2010/07/kitchen-appliances-that-bite.html

I have one of the egg cube makers shown:
https://www.thegreenhead.com/2006/10/egg-cuber-makes-square-eggs.php

I worked on a relatives chicken ranch for a summer when I was a
pre-teen. Unfortunately, I was rather useless because I treated the
chickens like pets, not food or egg producers. I got along better
with the machinery. Fast forward about 7 years, and I'm attending an
agricultural college slowly morphing into an engineering college. To
get enough classes to avoid getting drafted, I found myself taking
agricultural classes. I also started wearing cowboy boots, a string
tie, and hanging around the horse unit. No poultry experience, but
plenty with agricultural machinery.

I can't imaging MIT with a poultry department. Maybe they're working
on an egg drop project?
https://www.google.com/search?q=egg+drop+project&tbm=isch



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




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