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#11
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why?
"Steve Sr." wrote in message
... On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:40:35 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: "Steve Sr." wrote in message . .. Hello, I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4" from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so. Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable. Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next weekend. Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement. When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being un-cutable by this method. For identification purposes the side of the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it. So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which one best and which one I am getting? Any other things that I should check that might be causing these premature cable failures? Thanks, Steve One of the variables we've recently found responsible for shortening cable life is the use of drink mixes in the downtube water bottle, which will sometimes get on the gear cable and run down to the bottom bracket cable guide, where it will cause a lot of increased friction in the system. Another is worn shift cable housing; I'd recommend replacing the housing at the same time as the cable. And if neither of those are responsible for your cables breaking, it's possible you have a lever that simply likes to eat cables. Shimano admits that there are some out there, and they'll replace, on a case-by-case basis, levers that are no longer functional because a cable has broken off inside the lever and the head cannot be removed. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA Mike, I know about the sports drink issue and don't believe that this is a contributing factor in my case. The lever is probably about 2-3 years old right now so out of warranty unless it is extended for this issue. So far I have been able to catch the failures without completely breaking a cable and getting the head stuck in the shifter. One broken strand is enough to be noticeable. I cant see how anyone could let it go to complete cable breakage without noticing shifting issues. Steve Shimano doesn't replace levers that simply break cables, but does replace levers in which cables have failed inside them and cannot be removed. How strictly they stick to warranty periods I don't honestly know (Ultegra has a 2 year warranty, and Dura Ace 3 years). And yes, one broken strand has an effect on shifting, but people generally think that their derailleur has simply gone out of adjustment. But after you adjust it a few times there should come a recognition that you're dealing with a moving target and something is going wrong beyond simple adjustment. The initial symptom of a failing cable is that you can shift to a larger sprocket, but it doesn't want to go so easily in the other direction. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com |
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#12
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why?
Phil W Lee wrote:
Steve Sr. considered Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:41:32 -0400 the perfect time to write: On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:13:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Steve Sr. wrote: Hello, I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4" from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so. Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable. Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next weekend. Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement. When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being un-cutable by this method. For identification purposes the side of the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it. So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which one best and which one I am getting? Any other things that I should check that might be causing these premature cable failures? Both Shimano and Jaguar make various grades of gear wire. Do you replace the casing with a new wire? No the casing has not been replaced. How would one know if it needed replacing? From repeated breaks of the inner cable near to the end of the casing, or any visible damage. Speaking of such, I have a pair of Cane Creek brand brake cables in my parts box (was going to recable my bike and never got to it - but I'll be using them on this Trek I am working on) and they only have two ferrules for the pair. Shouldn't you use a ferrule at each end of each cable run? Or do you theoretically not need a ferrule at the barrel adjuster if you square the end properly? I realize the OP was talking about shift cables but I ASSume that the same principle goes for both. It'd be even worse for shift cables as unless you use DT shifters the RD would have two separate runs of housing (one from the shifter/brifter to the cable stop on the downtube boss, and then one from the chainstay to the derailleur) I always thought that you should replace the housing whenever you replace the cables, unless you're on the road and need a quick repair. Not true? nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why?
On 10 Sep, 01:29, Nate Nagel wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote: Steve Sr. considered Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:41:32 -0400 the perfect time to write: On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:13:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Steve Sr. wrote: Hello, I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4" from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so. Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable. Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next weekend. *Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement. When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being un-cutable by this method. *For identification purposes the side of the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it. So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which one best and which one I am getting? Any other things that I should check that might be causing these premature cable failures? Both Shimano and Jaguar make various grades of gear wire. Do you replace the casing with a new wire? No the casing has not been replaced. How would one know if it needed replacing? From repeated breaks of the inner cable near to the end of the casing, or any visible damage. Speaking of such, I have a pair of Cane Creek brand brake cables in my parts box (was going to recable my bike and never got to it - but I'll be using them on this Trek I am working on) and they only have two ferrules for the pair. *Shouldn't you use a ferrule at each end of each cable run? *Or do you theoretically not need a ferrule at the barrel adjuster if you square the end properly? I realize the OP was talking about shift cables but I ASSume that the same principle goes for both. *It'd be even worse for shift cables as unless you use DT shifters the RD would have two separate runs of housing (one from the shifter/brifter to the cable stop on the downtube boss, and then one from the chainstay to the derailleur) I always thought that you should replace the housing whenever you replace the cables, unless you're on the road and need a quick repair. Not true? Good brake housing will last a loooong time. It's more appropriate to give it a good inspection than to spend time replacing it for no benefit. Modern housings with plastic liner need a shot of silicon through them quite infrequently. If there are no kinks in the housing simply give it a scrub with a plastic pan scrub to brighten it up. The examination of the outer should include a check for coil displacement when the brake is on hard. The housing may bulge, particularly at the start of bends. Using aero routing and taping the cable to the bars eliminates most of this. I still like the appearance of the racer's loops above the bars but appreciate the benefits of having them taped down, not least unrestricted access to my handlebar bag when riding. |
#14
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why?
On 9 Sep, 06:24, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
"Steve Sr." wrote in message ... On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:40:35 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: "Steve Sr." wrote in message . .. Hello, I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4" from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so. Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable. Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next weekend. *Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement. When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being un-cutable by this method. *For identification purposes the side of the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it. So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which one best and which one I am getting? Any other things that I should check that might be causing these premature cable failures? Thanks, Steve One of the variables we've recently found responsible for shortening cable life is the use of drink mixes in the downtube water bottle, which will sometimes get on the gear cable and run down to the bottom bracket cable guide, where it will cause a lot of increased friction in the system. Another is worn shift cable housing; I'd recommend replacing the housing at the same time as the cable. And if neither of those are responsible for your cables breaking, it's possible you have a lever that simply likes to eat cables. Shimano admits that there are some out there, and they'll replace, on a case-by-case basis, levers that are no longer functional because a cable has broken off inside the lever and the head cannot be removed. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA Mike, I know about the sports drink issue and don't believe that this is a contributing factor in my case. The lever is probably about 2-3 years old right now so out of warranty unless it is extended for this issue. So far I have been able to catch the failures without completely breaking a cable and getting the head stuck in the shifter. One broken strand is enough to be noticeable. I cant see how anyone could let it go to complete cable breakage without noticing shifting issues. Steve Shimano doesn't replace levers that simply break cables, but does replace levers in which cables have failed inside them and cannot be removed. How strictly they stick to warranty periods I don't honestly know (Ultegra has a 2 year warranty, and Dura Ace 3 years). And yes, one broken strand has an effect on shifting, but people generally think that their derailleur has simply gone out of adjustment. But after you adjust it a few times there should come a recognition that you're dealing with a moving target and something is going wrong beyond simple adjustment. The initial symptom of a failing cable is that you can shift to a larger sprocket, but it doesn't want to go so easily in the other direction. I think all these complainers of failing shift cables shold upgrade to down tube friction shifters. |
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why?
someone wrote:
I think all these complainers of failing shift cables shold upgrade to down tube friction shifters. Top-mounted thumbshifters seem satisfactory to me. Chalo |
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why?
On 10 Sep, 06:01, Chalo wrote:
someone wrote: I think all these complainers of failing shift cables shold upgrade to down tube friction shifters. Top-mounted thumbshifters seem satisfactory to me. I've thought about them for myself. Are they suitable for 26.x mm of the centre section of a drop bar? |
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why? - UPDATE
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:03:29 -0400, Steve Sr.
wrote: Hello, I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4" from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so. Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable. Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next weekend. Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement. When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being un-cutable by this method. For identification purposes the side of the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it. So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which one best and which one I am getting? Any other things that I should check that might be causing these premature cable failures? Thanks, Steve As recommended I got around to replacing the cable housings last weekend with the generic 4mm Shimano bulk housing available at my LBS. I cut the housings with the cable cutter and squared the ends up with a diamond hone from a Leatherman multi-tool. The new housings appeard to have a small amount of silicone grease in them which I left alone. I suspect that this will eventually attract and hold more grit but we'll see. Upon my first test ride I noticed that the shifting was considerably easier than before. However, it never was hard before. Don't know if it was the new housings or the silicone grease that accounted for the difference. Now we're in the "life test" phase to see if this cable lasts any longer than the last Thanks, Steve |
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why?
On Sep 7, 9:03*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello, I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which necessitates a cable replacement. .. . . Thanks, Steve I have a similar problem with a New 10 speed Ultegra SL setup. Broke the first head off the rear shift cable at 1500 miles. Just broke the second at the same place in the shifter at 3000 miles. I rarely use drink mixes so that is not an issue. I can only think this is an issue with a sharp area in the shifter or cable end. I've always carried a spare shift cable while riding and have saved many a ride as only takes about 10 minutes to change one. Quit carrying a spare brake cable and have never broken one in over 105K miles. |
#19
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Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why? - UPDATE
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:42:08 -0400, Steve Sr. wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:03:29 -0400, Steve Sr. wrote: Hello, I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4" from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so. Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable. Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next weekend. Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement. When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being un-cutable by this method. For identification purposes the side of the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it. So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which one best and which one I am getting? Any other things that I should check that might be causing these premature cable failures? Thanks, Steve As recommended I got around to replacing the cable housings last weekend with the generic 4mm Shimano bulk housing available at my LBS. I cut the housings with the cable cutter and squared the ends up with a diamond hone from a Leatherman multi-tool. The new housings appeard to have a small amount of silicone grease in them which I left alone. I suspect that this will eventually attract and hold more grit but we'll see. Upon my first test ride I noticed that the shifting was considerably easier than before. However, it never was hard before. Don't know if it was the new housings or the silicone grease that accounted for the difference. Now we're in the "life test" phase to see if this cable lasts any longer than the last Thanks, Steve I had my Ultegra rear shifter cable break inside the mechanism. I brought it to my LBS, who sold me the bike. He couldn't get it out either and called Shimano who, he said, claimed there was no repair for this and would swap it since it was still under warrantee. However, it was a slow day and he decided to keep playing with it. Eventually, after a few hours, he was able to fish out the frayed end. I think that is pretty sad for a "premium" component. - LBS did not charge me, incase anyone was going to ask :-) Ben |
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