#31
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/6/21 1:29 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/5/2021 2:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes.Â* If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over.Â* However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted.Â* You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless.Â* That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. The two things that draw some cyclists to tubeless are the expense and the inconvenience. Lol! Never a truer word... |
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#32
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 23:49:10 -0700, Sir Ridesalot scribed:
Aren't a lot of roofing nails an aluminium alloy and therefore not magnetic? IME here. Old style were galvanised iron and a twisted nail. Modern ones are aluminium screws. YMMV. |
#33
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/6/21 12:10 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:28:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/4/2021 8:59 PM, Mark cleary wrote: I wonder what most regular cyclist are riding these days. I see so much on tubeless sets up and I have never given it a thought. I don't flat much so I just do not see the benefit at all and really so much easier just putting a tube in. I am I in the minority these days? I'm not aware of any of my riding friends using tubeless. The bike industry, including bike magazines, always have to hype _something_ new. Don't confuse hype with actual benefits or actual practice. But, but! It's NEW! It's gotta be better! It's exactly like the wife. The old one is cranky, out of date, prone to failures, the new one is shiny, polished, expensive and hard to maintain. |
#34
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 23:49:10 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:49:46 p.m. UTC-4, wrote: On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:29:26 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/5/2021 2:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes. If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over. However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted. You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless. That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. The two things that draw some cyclists to tubeless are the expense and the inconvenience. You must be a member of the CCC (Cynical Cycling Club). Marginally related tube drivel: 1. I have an Ace Hardware garbage can hand truck with tubeless tires. They leak because the rims were painted. Leaving it outdoors for a while caused water to collect between the painted rim and the tire, which promptly rusted. The rust was uneven, so the tires leaked air. So, I bought two inner tubes for the tires. I won't go through the details, but removing the tires so that they straddle one edge of the rim, was almost impossible. I managed to get one tire off, and insert the inner tube. However, I can't get the tire back onto the rim. Tubeless hand truck tires are evil. 2. Last years CZU fire and subsequent wind storm(s) gave a big boost to the home repair business. One of the side effects is the various amateur and professional contractors tend to leave nails all over the road. This year, I picked up a nail in the tread, which I successfully plugged on my 3rd try. I expect to find more nails in my tires until after the construction is done. Yes, we sweep the road with a magnetic pickup tool, but the nails are good at hiding. Looking at the damage, I'm fairly sure that I would not have had a problem if my tire had an inner tube. 3. I'm on my last Nashbar leaky bicycle inner tube. I started with 6 cheap tubes, all of which have leaked to varying degrees. I'll soon need to make a decision as to whether to buy some more cheap tubes, some expensive better tubes, Slime Sealant, or go tubeless with sealant. Since I'm cheap, it will probably more cheap leaky tubes. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 Aren't a lot of roofing nails an aluminium alloy and therefore not magnetic? Cheers All my roofs are tile but Amazon seems to have a lot of galvanized roofing nails wired in a roll I assume for some sort of nail gun. -- Cheers, John B. |
#35
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/6/2021 12:48 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I borrowed a hand truck that had something in the tires besides air. I have 50 stairs going up to the house. Going down those stairs, with a fully loaded 33 gallon trash can required a little care. Have you thought about a winch system, or something like a dumbwaiter? A few years back I designed and built a treehouse for some kids in the family. It spans between two trees. Entrance is via ladder up through a trapdoor. I was quite pleased with it, until we tried to carry some folding chairs up the ladder. It was clumsy and seemed dangerous. So I built a simple hand-crank winch hanging out over the back side of the treehouse rail. The kids can put stuff into an old huge wire bike basket then crank things up, or unhook the basket to lift larger loads. I admit, when I built the winch I didn't anticipate that if they let go of the crank, the weight would spin it around at several hundred rpm. So I quickly rigged up a sort of capstan brake made of rope wrapping the shaft. It gives one way action similar to pawls in a freewheel. A weight hangs from the rope, and lifting the weight a bit allows cranking loads down. Another winch application: I grew jealous of the space my homemade utility trailer was consuming in my garage, so I began tipping it up onto its tail and storing it against the wall. That was when I was much younger. A few years ago I decided raising and lowering it by hand was getting risky, so a Harbor Freight hand crank winch and a couple pulleys now helps a lot with that job. Of course, for your trash cans you could have a motor drive winch if you chose. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#36
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tubeless or tubes
bob prohaska wrote:
AMuzi wrote: Lighter? A Michelin road tube is 65 grams. Four ounces of latex (minimum dose)is nearly twice that, plus a heavier valve assembly and on some rims a heavier rim liner as well. But, why latex and rim liners? If the tire fits the rim accurately, and the rim is airtight, neither is required. Are those two things infeasible with present manufacturing techniques? Thanks for reading, bob prohaska Currently rims have between 20 - 36 holes to feed the spike heads through, requiring the use of a rim liner. Cars avoided that by moving to pressed steel and cast aluminum wheels, neither of which I see taking over. Also, many wheels are pinned together instead of welded at the seam, which is another potential air leakage site. |
#37
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tubeless or tubes
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 5:53:41 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/5/2021 2:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 12:14:21 PM UTC-7, bob prohaska wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: I'm not aware of any of my riding friends using tubeless. Nonetheless, tubeless tires have taken over most applications. The exceptions are usually cases where rims can't be airtight. What's the impediment for bicycles? Is it the extreme aspect ratio of bike tires? Manufacturing tolerances? Rim construction? Thanks for reading, bob prohaska Bob, Tubeless tires are a real bear to get on and off these days. And they are messy and you have to change the sealant at the very least once a year. And they STILL get serious flats if not minor ones So you have to carry a regular repair kit with a tube etc. There is an advantage to Time Trialists since the tires are lighter and have less rolling resistance. But other than that I see no real advantage that isn't offset by a real disadvantage. Lighter? A Michelin road tube is 65 grams. Four ounces of latex (minimum dose)is nearly twice that, plus a heavier valve assembly and on some rims a heavier rim liner as well. Tubeless tires are nevertheless lighter and have lower rolling resistance. That is why pro time trialists use them. And if a pro uses them most people take that as proof that they are superior. My testing of them is that they are quite inferior. |
#38
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tubeless or tubes
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 6:06:22 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/5/2021 7:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:29:26 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/5/2021 2:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes. If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over. However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted. You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless. That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. The two things that draw some cyclists to tubeless are the expense and the inconvenience. You must be a member of the CCC (Cynical Cycling Club). Marginally related tube drivel: 1. I have an Ace Hardware garbage can hand truck with tubeless tires. They leak because the rims were painted. Leaving it outdoors for a while caused water to collect between the painted rim and the tire, which promptly rusted. The rust was uneven, so the tires leaked air. So, I bought two inner tubes for the tires. I won't go through the details, but removing the tires so that they straddle one edge of the rim, was almost impossible. I managed to get one tire off, and insert the inner tube. However, I can't get the tire back onto the rim. Tubeless hand truck tires are evil. 2. Last years CZU fire and subsequent wind storm(s) gave a big boost to the home repair business. One of the side effects is the various amateur and professional contractors tend to leave nails all over the road. This year, I picked up a nail in the tread, which I successfully plugged on my 3rd try. I expect to find more nails in my tires until after the construction is done. Yes, we sweep the road with a magnetic pickup tool, but the nails are good at hiding. Looking at the damage, I'm fairly sure that I would not have had a problem if my tire had an inner tube. 3. I'm on my last Nashbar leaky bicycle inner tube. I started with 6 cheap tubes, all of which have leaked to varying degrees. I'll soon need to make a decision as to whether to buy some more cheap tubes, some expensive better tubes, Slime Sealant, or go tubeless with sealant. Since I'm cheap, it will probably more cheap leaky tubes. On that style tire, wet the bead set with soapy water or spray wax, cinch your belt or similar around the tire and inflate quickly. It will snap onto the seats. Uh, Andrew? You have a belt long enough to go around a 700c? Exactly how much do you weigh? Or are you speaking of John? |
#39
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/5/2021 8:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 20:19:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: I can post photos if anyone wants to see the problem. This is almost the exact same hand truck (dolly) that I have: "How to change flat tire on a moving dolly / Dolly repair/ Dolly Fix" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSDCVgkF3JU (1:36) However, the tire is a different tread pattern and design. It also seems far more flexible than mine. Also, I forgot to mention another advantage of tubeless tires. If you can't get the bead to set after changing the tire, just fill it with any kind of explosive gas (butane, propane, natural gas, etc) and ignite it. The expanding gases will seat the tire on the rim quite nicely. That doesn't work with an inner tube. Yes, every rider that uses tubeless tires should carry a butane cartridge and a lighter in their tool bag. The butane cartridges are not as small as CO2 cartridges though. These are the smallest I could find https://www.bnbtobacco.com/products/bugatti-butane-refill-pods. I think that someone should contact the company with your advice because it could greatly expand the market for their product. They could relabel the cartridges and sell them through bicycle shops at a much higher price. That's what lubricant manufacturers do. |
#40
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/5/2021 9:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:39:35 +0700, John B. wrote: I don't see the logic for tubeless tires on a garbage cart. Tubeless is cheaper because there's no inner tubes. I paid $10/ea for the 4.10 x 3.50 inner tubes. My guess(tm) is that two inner tubes would have added $2 to the price of a $60 dolly. snip Did you check Harbor Freight for tubes? They seem to have the best prices on small wheels, tires, and inner tubes https://www.harborfreight.com/material-handling/tires-casters/pneumatic-tires-inner-tubes.html. When I was a band parent we used a lot of tires and wheels for equipment used in shows and we were always running to Harbor Freight for something. You should also buy their mini tire changer, specifically designed for wheels with 4" to 12" rims https://www.harborfreight.com/material-handling/tires-casters/pneumatic-tires-inner-tubes/mini-tire-changer-61179.html. You could start a small business changing small tires and replacing tubes. |
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