Cheaper degreasers than Muc-off

Having got through another litre of Muc-Off I set to wondering what
the cheaper alternatives were. Best prospect I saw was £4 for 2L of
Swarfega Oil & Grease Remover, which may even be soluble to form a
similar strengh to Muc-Off

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=50166

What do others use?

wrote:
Having got through another litre of Muc-Off I set to wondering what
the cheaper alternatives were. Best prospect I saw was £4 for 2L of
Swarfega Oil & Grease Remover, which may even be soluble to form a
similar strengh to Muc-Off

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=50166

What do others use?

A wet cloth (water) for the big stuff like frame & wheels. A dry rag or rag
dampened with white spirit or WD40 for the oily bits.

Actually, nothing over the last few weeks because the weather has been so
dry. But I will eventually have to wipe off the layer of fine dust that has
accumulated.

With frame paintwork and anodised components these days, dirt should come
off easily enough without the need for Muck-off or any special cleaning
products like that. Waste of money, maybe harmful as well.

~PB

in message . com,
') wrote:

Having got through another litre of Muc-Off I set to wondering what
the cheaper alternatives were. Best prospect I saw was £4 for 2L of
Swarfega Oil & Grease Remover, which may even be soluble to form a
similar strengh to Muc-Off

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=50166

What do others use?

Hot water with a little squirt of hair shampoo. Car shampoo would be better
but I don't keep it round the house. Don't use washing up detergent
because it is high in salts which damage the surface of the paint.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
"The result is a language that... not even its mother could
love. Like the camel, Common Lisp is a horse designed by
committee. Camels do have their uses."
;; Scott Fahlman, 7 March 1995

In article ,
Simon Brooke writes:
|
| Hot water with a little squirt of hair shampoo. Car shampoo would be better
| but I don't keep it round the house. Don't use washing up detergent
| because it is high in salts which damage the surface of the paint.

Do you have any evidence for that? I have reason to believe that it
is somewhere between an urban myth and propaganda put out by the car
shampoo manufacturers.

For example, WHICH salts? And why should they damage a durable
paint? Even road salt doesn't - it is the aluminium that goes
first, followed by the steels.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

For example, WHICH salts? And why should they damage a durable
paint? Even road salt doesn't - it is the aluminium that goes
first, followed by the steels.

"Durable paint" isn't the problem while it's a continuous layer, but
most of us acquire chips in the durable paint from time to time. And
once we do, road salt will do its stuff.

It's not something one has to worry about on ceramics and stainless
steel cutlery, so no reason not to use the most easily available and
cheap salt going in your washing up liquid...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Nick Maclaren wrote on 03/05/2007 16:08 +0100:

Do you have any evidence for that? I have reason to believe that it
is somewhere between an urban myth and propaganda put out by the car
shampoo manufacturers.

For example, WHICH salts? And why should they damage a durable
paint? Even road salt doesn't - it is the aluminium that goes
first, followed by the steels.


I think the mistake is to associate salts generically with all washing
up liquids but most do contains reasonable amounts of salt [1,2]
although certainly not all of them. If you know which is which fine, if
not it is probably best to avoid them.

[1] See for example Persil washing up liquid ingredients at
http://www.unilever.com/pioti/EN/p4....ctid=2046 399
[2] "The highest permitted content of inorganic salts is 1.5 %. The
highest permitted content of urea is 2 %. The phosphorous content in
washing-up liquid may not be higher than 1 % P........The requirement
regarding salt content is also included in order to deter diluted
products. Salt is often used to make washing-up liquid more viscous."
http://www.snf.se/pdf/bmv/bmv-kem-washup-crit.pdf

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

In article ,
Tony Raven writes:
|
| I think the mistake is to associate salts generically with all washing
| up liquids but most do contains reasonable amounts of salt [1,2]
| although certainly not all of them. If you know which is which fine, if
| not it is probably best to avoid them.
|
| [2] "The highest permitted content of inorganic salts is 1.5 %.

So, when diluted, we are talking about - what - 0.01%? Compared to
the 10% you can get from spray from a salted road.

That is infinitesimal compared to the amount that gets on a bicycle
from a salted road - and, unless you are the sort of person who
washes a bicycle off after every trip (including on getting into
work if you commute) in such conditions, it won't do any significant
damage compared to one ride across a salted road a year! I certainly
have noticed significant damage to aluminium and non-greasy chains
after a single working day following a trip in along a salted road.

I believe that this is an urban myth. I know that is is promulgated
by the car shampoo and windscreen wash suppliers, who sell the same
stuff as a low-salt household detergent at ten times the price.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote on 03/05/2007 17:12 +0100:

So, when diluted, we are talking about - what - 0.01%? Compared to
the 10% you can get from spray from a salted road.

Maybe but then even low salt concentration solutions can dry off to a
visible film of salt deposit which can, with humidity, do damage
expecially in those inaccessible places.


I believe that this is an urban myth. I know that is is promulgated
by the car shampoo and windscreen wash suppliers, who sell the same
stuff as a low-salt household detergent at ten times the price.


Maybe but its no myth that washing up liquid contains salt and why take
the risk if you don't need to? I also don't use Muc-off either because
it has a high alkali content which attacks and fades anodising colours
if left on, aside from its price.


--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

In article , Tony Raven writes:
| Nick Maclaren wrote on 03/05/2007 17:12 +0100:
|
| So, when diluted, we are talking about - what - 0.01%? Compared to
| the 10% you can get from spray from a salted road.
|
| Maybe but then even low salt concentration solutions can dry off to a
| visible film of salt deposit which can, with humidity, do damage
| expecially in those inaccessible places.

Well, not really. The amount of salt left under such conditions will
be pro rata to the amount in the liquid in the first place.

| I believe that this is an urban myth. I know that is is promulgated
| by the car shampoo and windscreen wash suppliers, who sell the same
| stuff as a low-salt household detergent at ten times the price.
|
| Maybe but its no myth that washing up liquid contains salt and why take
| the risk if you don't need to? I also don't use Muc-off either because
| it has a high alkali content which attacks and fades anodising colours
| if left on, aside from its price.

It's also no myth that many (actually, I would expect most) tap waters
contain more corrosive salts (often including common salt) than you will
be adding via the washing up liquid (i.e. 0.01%).

You clearly don't want to use rainwater, either, because of the sulphur
and nitrogen acids.

So that means that you should use distilled (or at least deionised)
water, right?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote on 03/05/2007 17:36 +0100:

Well, not really. The amount of salt left under such conditions will
be pro rata to the amount in the liquid in the first place.


But potentially concentrated in its location by the drying process


So that means that you should use distilled (or at least deionised)
water, right?


Distilled yes; deionised no. Deionised water can be very corrosive as
it attempts to restore its ion content.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell