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  #11  
Old October 30th 18, 12:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 219
Default Bicycle Accident

Ned Mantei wrote:
On 30-10-18 07:58, James wrote:
On 30/10/18 11:39 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:


When my wife, daughter and I did our coast-to-coast ride, we were on a
gravel road in North Dakota when a woman driving a pickup truck
stopped us. She explained that another pair of touring cyclists just
ahead of us had spooked her cattle so badly they stampeded right
through a barbed wire fence and up the road.

Her family was herding the cows back down the gravel road, opposite
the direction we were riding. She asked us to please hide ourselves
behind some huge hay rolls in the adjacent pasture until they had
passed by.

So we took a snack break there, and after a while got to watch cowboys
on horses plus another pickup truck move the herd.

At least we didn't have to disassemble our bikes.* :-)


Yes, I've been asked to wait for cattle being driven along the road
reserve.* Some horses are particularly skittish around bicycles too.


It's the owners' fault, they should themselves have used cycles (including
recumbents) early on to teach their animals that bicycles aren't predators!
/city lawyer ebike tourist

I've seen this sort of thing only once. Going up into an out-of-the-way
valley (Val Sinestra) there was a trail of cows coming down from their
summer pasture (https://flic.kr/p/bH8xNB ) Surprisingly, they were led
by several horses, with no humans around (https://flic.kr/p/bH8xK4 ). I
moved to the side to let them pass, but left my bike close to the road.
The cows avoided this strange object, but still kept going
(https://flic.kr/p/bH8xT4 ). Humans appeared later in an SUV, after all
the cows had passed.

Where the trail ends closer to settled areas, coming down from the
pasture at the end of summer ("Alpabzug") can be a sort of parade, with
the cows being decked out for the celebration
(https://flic.kr/p/2bqbDB9 and https://flic.kr/p/NKW6cX ,
or https://flic.kr/p/bHacdR ).

At other times I've encountered groups of cows right on the road. Often
it was easy to go around them (https://flic.kr/p/LxHLkD ), but once I
had to walk right through the group. They didn't seem to care at all,
and let me pass. The only unpleasant part was that they were surrounded
by clouds of flies.

And somehow touching: Once I was standing at the side of the road
looking at a map, when a cow came over and started to lick the sweat off
my arm. An unusual but not unpleasant sensation...


You absolutely need to upgrade your trusted, but sodium-free Traktion King!
http://myhome.iolfree.ie/~hardshell/bo/fish/tk.html
Be a prepared Joerg and don't leave home without this:
https://www.salz.ch/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/3906.jpg
Ads
  #12  
Old October 30th 18, 03:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 3,770
Default Bicycle Accident

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 6:27:59 AM UTC-4, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 30-10-18 07:58, James wrote:
On 30/10/18 11:39 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:


When my wife, daughter and I did our coast-to-coast ride, we were on a
gravel road in North Dakota when a woman driving a pickup truck
stopped us. She explained that another pair of touring cyclists just
ahead of us had spooked her cattle so badly they stampeded right
through a barbed wire fence and up the road.

Her family was herding the cows back down the gravel road, opposite
the direction we were riding. She asked us to please hide ourselves
behind some huge hay rolls in the adjacent pasture until they had
passed by.

So we took a snack break there, and after a while got to watch cowboys
on horses plus another pickup truck move the herd.

At least we didn't have to disassemble our bikes.* :-)


Yes, I've been asked to wait for cattle being driven along the road
reserve.* Some horses are particularly skittish around bicycles too.


I've seen this sort of thing only once. Going up into an out-of-the-way
valley (Val Sinestra) there was a trail of cows coming down from their
summer pasture (https://flic.kr/p/bH8xNB ) Surprisingly, they were led
by several horses, with no humans around (https://flic.kr/p/bH8xK4 ). I
moved to the side to let them pass, but left my bike close to the road.
The cows avoided this strange object, but still kept going
(https://flic.kr/p/bH8xT4 ). Humans appeared later in an SUV, after all
the cows had passed.

Where the trail ends closer to settled areas, coming down from the
pasture at the end of summer ("Alpabzug") can be a sort of parade, with
the cows being decked out for the celebration
(https://flic.kr/p/2bqbDB9 and https://flic.kr/p/NKW6cX ,
or https://flic.kr/p/bHacdR ).

At other times I've encountered groups of cows right on the road. Often
it was easy to go around them (https://flic.kr/p/LxHLkD ), but once I
had to walk right through the group. They didn't seem to care at all,
and let me pass. The only unpleasant part was that they were surrounded
by clouds of flies.

And somehow touching: Once I was standing at the side of the road
looking at a map, when a cow came over and started to lick the sweat off
my arm. An unusual but not unpleasant sensation...

Finally, as I've mentioned before, mother cows with their calves
("Mutterkuhhaltung" in German) can be very dangerous. Every year or two
the newspaper reports on a hiker killed by a mother cow. Here I leave at
least 50 meters space, or just give up and go back.

Ned


The cow licking your arm was after the salt. When I worked on a farm with cows one of the things I had to do was put the salt blocks out in the areas where the cows grazed.

I looked at a number of other images in that photo stream you posted links to. I found it interesting that the signs were in time = how long it'd take to get some place rather than in distances such as kilometers.

Cheers
  #13  
Old October 30th 18, 04:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,339
Default Bicycle Accident

On 10/30/2018 2:50 AM, James wrote:
On 30/10/18 9:59 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 06:38:42 +1100, James
wrote:

On 29/10/18 11:47 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:

This past week the news here has reported the death of a Philippine
bicyclist who was in Thailand participating in a 1,000 km Audax.

About 01:30 on Tuesday, the 24th, Russel Perez, 55, from the
Philippines, was struck by a van that run a red light and died, after
having completed approximately 950 km of the 1,000 km. ride.

Naughty van.


On 25 Nov police reported that a damaged van, a white Toyota, was
found at a garage in Min Buri district in Bangkok. It was taken to the
police station for forensic and fingerprint testing.* The police said
a man drove the van to the garage on Wednesday morning for repairs
saying that the vehicle hit a cow.

On 26 Nov.Police arrested a 29-year-old van driver who ran a red light
and fatally hit a 55-year-old Philippine cyclist joining a
long-distance event early Tuesday morning. He was charged with,
reckless driving causing death and damage, failing to help his victim,
failure to inform an official of the incident, running a red light and
using drugs.

Ah.* I see the van had a driver.

The media usually word these stories as though the motor vehicle did
something it shouldn't.* It is a common problem.* No mention of the
driver having lost control, or not paying attention, or being
distracted, etc., except maybe sometimes as a footnote.

The language used in motor vehicle crash stories is usually very
different from bicycle crash stories, where it is usually the rider that
is noted to have done something - not the bicycle.


I suppose that at least some of the wording was a result of people
initially seeing what happened. i.e., people saw a van hit a bicycle
but they couldn't see whether it was driven by a man, woman or an evil
spirit.


In my limited experience, the incident rate of vehicles being driven by
spirits, evil or good, is nil.* There are of course spirited drivers and
drivers under the influence of spirits, but it would suffice to say a
person driving a van hit a bicycle (and rider).


Well:

We're pretty sure our house has an electronic poltergeist. I can give
details if you like, but the run of weird electronic happenings has been
far too strange and far too long, affecting too many electronic devices.
Latest example: last night, our programmable thermostat refused to turn
the temperature down at night. I woke in the dead of the night to
stumble downstairs, lower the temperature manually, and write a reminder
note to re-program it. But this morning, the programming is fine.

(And it makes sense, if you think about it. Hasn't it been years since
you've read about dishes flying about kitchens on their own? The
poltergeists are having much more fun with electronics!)

This is pertinent, because we're hearing more and more about driverless
cars. Those will be packed full of electronics, and probably poltergeists.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old October 30th 18, 06:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 334
Default Bicycle Accident

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 1:10:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-29 12:38, James wrote:
On 29/10/18 11:47 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:

This past week the news here has reported the death of a Philippine
bicyclist who was in Thailand participating in a 1,000 km Audax.

About 01:30 on Tuesday, the 24th, Russel Perez, 55, from the
Philippines, was struck by a van that run a red light and died, after
having completed approximately 950 km of the 1,000 km. ride.


Naughty van.


On 25 Nov police reported that a damaged van, a white Toyota, was
found at a garage in Min Buri district in Bangkok. It was taken to the
police station for forensic and fingerprint testing. The police said
a man drove the van to the garage on Wednesday morning for repairs
saying that the vehicle hit a cow.

On 26 Nov.Police arrested a 29-year-old van driver who ran a red light
and fatally hit a 55-year-old Philippine cyclist joining a
long-distance event early Tuesday morning. He was charged with,
reckless driving causing death and damage, failing to help his victim,
failure to inform an official of the incident, running a red light and
using drugs.


Ah. I see the van had a driver.

The media usually word these stories as though the motor vehicle did
something it shouldn't. It is a common problem. No mention of the
driver having lost control, or not paying attention, or being
distracted, etc., except maybe sometimes as a footnote.

The language used in motor vehicle crash stories is usually very
different from bicycle crash stories, where it is usually the rider that
is noted to have done something - not the bicycle.


Wait until we have the first cyclists run over by driverless cars. Like
what happened to a woman in AZ who was pushing her bicycle.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I was involved in a very heavy argument about self driving cars. I have a strong idea that it was Musk that was the op. Shortly after I made my point Tesla changed the name of their system from "Self Driving" to "Navigation device" and required you to have both hands on the wheel whenever it was engaged. The technical problems of a self-driving car on normal streets is far too great to go into now. Most of the self driving cars presently under development by Google will probably bankrupt them if they actually put these into production for the average citizen or more likely - for delivery services.
  #15  
Old October 31st 18, 01:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default Bicycle Accident

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:50:31 +1100, James
wrote:

On 30/10/18 9:59 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 06:38:42 +1100, James
wrote:

On 29/10/18 11:47 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:

This past week the news here has reported the death of a Philippine
bicyclist who was in Thailand participating in a 1,000 km Audax.

About 01:30 on Tuesday, the 24th, Russel Perez, 55, from the
Philippines, was struck by a van that run a red light and died, after
having completed approximately 950 km of the 1,000 km. ride.

Naughty van.


On 25 Nov police reported that a damaged van, a white Toyota, was
found at a garage in Min Buri district in Bangkok. It was taken to the
police station for forensic and fingerprint testing. The police said
a man drove the van to the garage on Wednesday morning for repairs
saying that the vehicle hit a cow.

On 26 Nov.Police arrested a 29-year-old van driver who ran a red light
and fatally hit a 55-year-old Philippine cyclist joining a
long-distance event early Tuesday morning. He was charged with,
reckless driving causing death and damage, failing to help his victim,
failure to inform an official of the incident, running a red light and
using drugs.

Ah. I see the van had a driver.

The media usually word these stories as though the motor vehicle did
something it shouldn't. It is a common problem. No mention of the
driver having lost control, or not paying attention, or being
distracted, etc., except maybe sometimes as a footnote.

The language used in motor vehicle crash stories is usually very
different from bicycle crash stories, where it is usually the rider that
is noted to have done something - not the bicycle.


I suppose that at least some of the wording was a result of people
initially seeing what happened. i.e., people saw a van hit a bicycle
but they couldn't see whether it was driven by a man, woman or an evil
spirit.


In my limited experience, the incident rate of vehicles being driven by
spirits, evil or good, is nil. There are of course spirited drivers and
drivers under the influence of spirits, but it would suffice to say a
person driving a van hit a bicycle (and rider).


I understand what you are saying but on a dark and cloudy night when a
vehicle hits another, and speeds away, how do you determine who, or
what, was driving it? Or do we say " A van, driven by somebody, hit a
chap on a bicycle..."?

--
Cheers

John B.
  #16  
Old October 31st 18, 01:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default Bicycle Accident

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:48:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/30/2018 2:50 AM, James wrote:
On 30/10/18 9:59 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 06:38:42 +1100, James
wrote:

On 29/10/18 11:47 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:

This past week the news here has reported the death of a Philippine
bicyclist who was in Thailand participating in a 1,000 km Audax.

About 01:30 on Tuesday, the 24th, Russel Perez, 55, from the
Philippines, was struck by a van that run a red light and died, after
having completed approximately 950 km of the 1,000 km. ride.

Naughty van.


On 25 Nov police reported that a damaged van, a white Toyota, was
found at a garage in Min Buri district in Bangkok. It was taken to the
police station for forensic and fingerprint testing.* The police said
a man drove the van to the garage on Wednesday morning for repairs
saying that the vehicle hit a cow.

On 26 Nov.Police arrested a 29-year-old van driver who ran a red light
and fatally hit a 55-year-old Philippine cyclist joining a
long-distance event early Tuesday morning. He was charged with,
reckless driving causing death and damage, failing to help his victim,
failure to inform an official of the incident, running a red light and
using drugs.

Ah.* I see the van had a driver.

The media usually word these stories as though the motor vehicle did
something it shouldn't.* It is a common problem.* No mention of the
driver having lost control, or not paying attention, or being
distracted, etc., except maybe sometimes as a footnote.

The language used in motor vehicle crash stories is usually very
different from bicycle crash stories, where it is usually the rider that
is noted to have done something - not the bicycle.

I suppose that at least some of the wording was a result of people
initially seeing what happened. i.e., people saw a van hit a bicycle
but they couldn't see whether it was driven by a man, woman or an evil
spirit.


In my limited experience, the incident rate of vehicles being driven by
spirits, evil or good, is nil.* There are of course spirited drivers and
drivers under the influence of spirits, but it would suffice to say a
person driving a van hit a bicycle (and rider).


Well:

We're pretty sure our house has an electronic poltergeist. I can give
details if you like, but the run of weird electronic happenings has been
far too strange and far too long, affecting too many electronic devices.
Latest example: last night, our programmable thermostat refused to turn
the temperature down at night. I woke in the dead of the night to
stumble downstairs, lower the temperature manually, and write a reminder
note to re-program it. But this morning, the programming is fine.

(And it makes sense, if you think about it. Hasn't it been years since
you've read about dishes flying about kitchens on their own? The
poltergeists are having much more fun with electronics!)

This is pertinent, because we're hearing more and more about driverless
cars. Those will be packed full of electronics, and probably poltergeists.


I suppose that it depends on the society one comes from but even in
the more developed places some people are considered "lucky" and
others "not so lucky", or "unlucky", Not a far cry from those that
have the spirits on their side :-)
--
Cheers

John B.
  #17  
Old October 31st 18, 07:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default Bicycle Accident

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:48:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/30/2018 2:50 AM, James wrote:
On 30/10/18 9:59 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 06:38:42 +1100, James
wrote:

On 29/10/18 11:47 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:

This past week the news here has reported the death of a Philippine
bicyclist who was in Thailand participating in a 1,000 km Audax.

About 01:30 on Tuesday, the 24th, Russel Perez, 55, from the
Philippines, was struck by a van that run a red light and died, after
having completed approximately 950 km of the 1,000 km. ride.

Naughty van.


On 25 Nov police reported that a damaged van, a white Toyota, was
found at a garage in Min Buri district in Bangkok. It was taken to the
police station for forensic and fingerprint testing.* The police said
a man drove the van to the garage on Wednesday morning for repairs
saying that the vehicle hit a cow.

On 26 Nov.Police arrested a 29-year-old van driver who ran a red light
and fatally hit a 55-year-old Philippine cyclist joining a
long-distance event early Tuesday morning. He was charged with,
reckless driving causing death and damage, failing to help his victim,
failure to inform an official of the incident, running a red light and
using drugs.

Ah.* I see the van had a driver.

The media usually word these stories as though the motor vehicle did
something it shouldn't.* It is a common problem.* No mention of the
driver having lost control, or not paying attention, or being
distracted, etc., except maybe sometimes as a footnote.

The language used in motor vehicle crash stories is usually very
different from bicycle crash stories, where it is usually the rider that
is noted to have done something - not the bicycle.

I suppose that at least some of the wording was a result of people
initially seeing what happened. i.e., people saw a van hit a bicycle
but they couldn't see whether it was driven by a man, woman or an evil
spirit.


In my limited experience, the incident rate of vehicles being driven by
spirits, evil or good, is nil.* There are of course spirited drivers and
drivers under the influence of spirits, but it would suffice to say a
person driving a van hit a bicycle (and rider).


Well:

We're pretty sure our house has an electronic poltergeist. I can give
details if you like, but the run of weird electronic happenings has been
far too strange and far too long, affecting too many electronic devices.
Latest example: last night, our programmable thermostat refused to turn
the temperature down at night. I woke in the dead of the night to
stumble downstairs, lower the temperature manually, and write a reminder
note to re-program it. But this morning, the programming is fine.

(And it makes sense, if you think about it. Hasn't it been years since
you've read about dishes flying about kitchens on their own? The
poltergeists are having much more fun with electronics!)

This is pertinent, because we're hearing more and more about driverless
cars. Those will be packed full of electronics, and probably poltergeists.


Well, given that "numbers don't lie" and computers are simply machines
that can count to 2 (although they call it 0 and 1) thus it would seem
that a computer controlled auto couldn't be wrong and by elimination
it must be the bicycle's fault.
cheers,

John B.



  #18  
Old October 31st 18, 02:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ned Mantei[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 66
Default Bicycle Accident

On 30-10-18 15:33, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I looked at a number of other images in that photo stream you posted links to. I found it interesting that the signs were in time = how long it'd take to get some place rather than in distances such as kilometers.


Those signs ("Wegweiser" in German) are all meant for hikers. Hiking is
*THE* outdoor activity in Switzerland, with marked trails everywhere. Go
to
https://map.wanderland.ch/?lang=en&b...ers=Wanderland
to get an idea of this. At the link you will first see national trails,
but as you zoom in you see more and more local ones, often every few
hundred meters.

The signs are yellow for trails that are more or less easy hiking for
anyone, and except for the occasional stairway generally o.k. for a
mountain bike. White-red-white stripes indicate more difficult trails,
but not mountain climbing--here its bike-and-hike. Blue signs are for
the even more difficult routes, which I never take either with bike or
on foot. Examples of the latter two types of signs are he
https://flic.kr/p/aJCBUV . To get to where that photo was shot I pushed
the bike for 2 hours or so, starting at Alp Funtauna, seen from above
two photos earlier in the series. But I had it easy: People running the
Swiss Alpine Marathon were coming down the trail as I was going up. For
some of them it was running/walking 36 km with 1,720 meters ascent and
1080 meters descent, mostly on rough mountain trails. Even more
difficult routes were possible, up to 77.5 km.
  #19  
Old October 31st 18, 04:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,339
Default Bicycle Accident

On 10/30/2018 8:53 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
... even in
the more developed places some people are considered "lucky" and
others "not so lucky", or "unlucky", Not a far cry from those that
have the spirits on their side :-)


We just returned from a trip to Europe with a single friend. We booked
identically and simultaneously at the same travel agent. Default on
rooms (or cabins, on a cruise boat) was double occupancy, so our friend
was expecting to pay extra, at least a per-person surcharge for hers.

Instead, they allowed her to pay only for herself, no surcharge. And her
supposedly identical room was inexplicably bigger than ours. Meanwhile,
I had serious trouble getting my phone to work over there.

As I told her: "You've got a guardian angel. I've got a poltergeist."

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old November 1st 18, 04:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,169
Default Bicycle Accident


I used to frighten the cows when I walked around on Maui, because they
had never seen a pedestrian before. But they just walked away from
the fence; they weren't spooked.

I did play a dirty trick on a herd of cows once.

I'd ridden to Claypool, just to prove that I could. I didn't like the
bar-like atmosphere of the only eating place in town, but thought I'd
go in, order a sandwich to go, and eat it in the graveyard. But first
I'd ride up to the state road to see whether anyone catered to the
passing traffic.

I learned later that downtown Claypool is quite convenient to the
tracks, and railroad people are the only ones who want to eat in
Claypool when they are just passing through.

No businesses at the junction, but the paved shoulder was nice and
wide; why not go home by 15 and stop somewhere to eat the emergency
food bars in my pannier?

When I reached the spot that was just out of sight from the junction,
I realized that that wasn't a shoulder, it was a blending lane for
trucks coming out of the diesel-oil plant on the other side of the
bridge. Much, much later I was fooling around with Google Maps and
learned that it would have been much better to turn south and take the
first road past the bridge.

15 is not a nice road anywhere for anybody. I took the first county
road I crossed and started looking around for a place to eat. Just
after I passed a pasture, I came to a place where somebody had been in
the habit of pulling a heavy vehicle into a wheat field and backing
out again. Ah, here I can get off the road without squashing any
crops!

I sat down to eat and the cattle started drifting toward the fence. I
started to feel a little self-conscious when they were all lined up
along the fence watching me eat. Not until a few minutes later, when
they started to moo exactly the way Al meows at nine o'clock, did I
understand who had been parking in the wheat field and what had been
in the truck.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
 




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