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Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 2nd 18, 03:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,169
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:15:14 -0400, Duane
wrote:

DT shifters belong in museums IMO. Or on bikes ridden by
intrepid daredevils that find that niche where nothing else will work
but what they have.


Or little old ladies who know how to work them. The handlebar
shifters on my wheelchair bike (the one I ride when I can't walk) are
sometimes disconcerting.

It's all in what you are used to.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

Ads
  #22  
Old November 2nd 18, 03:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,439
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 6:53:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/1/2018 7:12 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 2:11:17 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 3:07:51 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
My Shimano setup only hops one cog per click towards higher gears
(smaller cogs) which is ok. Only two per upshift and that's often not
enough. On my old road bike I can go from one extreme on the cassette to
the other in less than 2sec while simultaneously shifting the front.
Both with one hand.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

And where you have to remove one hand from the handlebar in order to make ANY shift. Most people who ride with an regularity can shift across an entire 11 speed cassette whether road or mtb in less than two seconds.


And we've been through this with Joerg before. If DT friction shifting were superior, then every pro would use them -- regardless of sponsor driven component choices.


Hmm. By the same logic, if fenders were superior to no fenders, then
every pro racer would use them; therefore nobody should use fenders.


Huh? You lost me.

That logic works only if your riding style and motivation is similar to
a pro racer. Mine is way, way different, so my equipment choices are way
different.


The deal is we don't have to agree on the superiority of one or the other. Joerg and everyone else should feel free to use whatever he or she wants.

As for pro use, Joerg was talking about his extreme riding that requires him to shift from small cog to large in a few seconds -- and yet you will not see any CX rider with DT friction shifters. Go watch CX worlds. It's all about sharp turns into steep climbs and NOBODY uses DT friction shifters. https://www.cxmagazine.com/wp-conten...azine-bh_1.jpg https://www.cxmagazine.com/wp-conten...azine-bh_1.jpg

If DT friction shifters were superior in circumstances requiring quick shifting into the big cog under load -- the bread and butter of CX racing -- they would be used. They're not. That doesn't mean that you or anyone else shouldn't use them. Go for it. I like my brifters.

With that said, I could care less about Di2, and I have it on one bike. I would switch back to a threaded BB in a minute. I do not entirely embrace the new age.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #23  
Old November 2nd 18, 05:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,339
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On 11/1/2018 10:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:

And we've been through this with Joerg before. If DT friction shifting were superior, then every pro would use them -- regardless of sponsor driven component choices.


Hmm. By the same logic, if fenders were superior to no fenders, then
every pro racer would use them; therefore nobody should use fenders.


Huh? You lost me.


I'll try again.

What's best for racers isn't necessary best for everyone. Riding
requirements vary, so equipment requirements and preferences vary.

I'm not questioning your preference or your ultimate conclusion. I'm
just questioning the logic that "if DT were superior the pros would use
them."

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #24  
Old November 2nd 18, 05:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,779
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On 11/2/2018 11:20 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/1/2018 10:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:

And we've been through this with Joerg before. If DT
friction shifting were superior, then every pro would
use them -- regardless of sponsor driven component choices.

Hmm. By the same logic, if fenders were superior to no
fenders, then
every pro racer would use them; therefore nobody should
use fenders.


Huh? You lost me.


I'll try again.

What's best for racers isn't necessary best for everyone.
Riding requirements vary, so equipment requirements and
preferences vary.

I'm not questioning your preference or your ultimate
conclusion. I'm just questioning the logic that "if DT were
superior the pros would use them."


+1
I ride more miles fixed than friction derailleur or Sturmey
index. Nothing wrong with any of those systems but none are
superior either.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #25  
Old November 2nd 18, 05:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 284
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 5:09:42 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 1:25:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-31 10:43, jbeattie wrote:
So I did this CLE speaking gig for the state bar, and they gave me a
little Amazon card that I used to buy myself these uber-cheap Nashbar
p-handle hex wrenches. https://tinyurl.com/y8rrfyuf (I got via Amazon
for the same price).



That link only produces a security warning here.


... What a great set of wrenches. I don't know how
I lived without these for so long, particularly with all the recessed
brake lever bolts these days. All this time I've been using long or
standard hex wrenches or hex multi wrenches like this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....PL._SX425_.jpg


I recently bought this, with matching pouch:

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

It appears to be almost indestructible but is too heavy for weight
weenies, over 7oz. I have it only for a few months but it already saved
the bacon twice, for other riders.


I gave one of those to my son, and the problem with that tool is that the hex wrenches are too short and certainly not anything you would want for shop work. Getting to the brake lever fixing bolt, you need a long wrench -- even with some olde tyme levers (assuming they don't have an 8mm nut), you need a longer hex wrench. Depending on the design of your bottle cage, shorty wrenches get caught up tightening the hex bolts. A lot of stuff you can do with a pocket tool, and I certainly carry one on the road, but most of the stuff I can do with a pocket tool at home, I use a click torque wrench -- something like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1400_.jpg Or a regular torque wrench for any fastener above 6nm.

The el-cheapo Nashbar wrenches are great for getting to the cable anchors on the new 105, the brake lever fixing bolts, bottle cage bolts, initial tightening of crank pinch bolts, etc. Next best are just long-handle hex wrenches. I use a pocket tool on the road or in a pinch around the house.

-- Jay Beattie.


You are better of taking separate 4 and 5 mm hex and, lets get crazy a torx 25 key along with an adequate length instead of these clunky crap overpriced multitools where 80% of the included tools are never used and only getting in the way using the few you might actually need.

Lou
  #26  
Old November 2nd 18, 06:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 196
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On 02/11/2018 12:47 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 5:09:42 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 1:25:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-31 10:43, jbeattie wrote:
So I did this CLE speaking gig for the state bar, and they gave me a
little Amazon card that I used to buy myself these uber-cheap Nashbar
p-handle hex wrenches.
https://tinyurl.com/y8rrfyuf (I got via Amazon
for the same price).


That link only produces a security warning here.


... What a great set of wrenches. I don't know how
I lived without these for so long, particularly with all the recessed
brake lever bolts these days. All this time I've been using long or
standard hex wrenches or hex multi wrenches like this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....PL._SX425_.jpg


I recently bought this, with matching pouch:

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

It appears to be almost indestructible but is too heavy for weight
weenies, over 7oz. I have it only for a few months but it already saved
the bacon twice, for other riders.


I gave one of those to my son, and the problem with that tool is that the hex wrenches are too short and certainly not anything you would want for shop work. Getting to the brake lever fixing bolt, you need a long wrench -- even with some olde tyme levers (assuming they don't have an 8mm nut), you need a longer hex wrench. Depending on the design of your bottle cage, shorty wrenches get caught up tightening the hex bolts. A lot of stuff you can do with a pocket tool, and I certainly carry one on the road, but most of the stuff I can do with a pocket tool at home, I use a click torque wrench -- something like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1400_.jpg Or a regular torque wrench for any fastener above 6nm.

The el-cheapo Nashbar wrenches are great for getting to the cable anchors on the new 105, the brake lever fixing bolts, bottle cage bolts, initial tightening of crank pinch bolts, etc. Next best are just long-handle hex wrenches. I use a pocket tool on the road or in a pinch around the house.

-- Jay Beattie.


You are better of taking separate 4 and 5 mm hex and, lets get crazy a torx 25 key along with an adequate length instead of these clunky crap overpriced multitools where 80% of the included tools are never used and only getting in the way using the few you might actually need.


Probably true. But I'm a group leader in my club and often have to bail
out people with different bikes. I would hate to have to search for
rocks and nails along the road.

  #27  
Old November 2nd 18, 08:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,439
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 9:20:55 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/1/2018 10:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:

And we've been through this with Joerg before. If DT friction shifting were superior, then every pro would use them -- regardless of sponsor driven component choices.

Hmm. By the same logic, if fenders were superior to no fenders, then
every pro racer would use them; therefore nobody should use fenders.


Huh? You lost me.


I'll try again.

What's best for racers isn't necessary best for everyone. Riding
requirements vary, so equipment requirements and preferences vary.

I'm not questioning your preference or your ultimate conclusion. I'm
just questioning the logic that "if DT were superior the pros would use
them."


My point is that friction DT shifting is not the best device for shifting quickly under load to climb a hill. The fact that people who shift quickly under load for a living don't use DT friction shifting is at least some evidence in support of my point. This says nothing about personal preference -- or what might be the best choice for a particular rider. I was just rebutting Joerg's argument that because of his unique need to shift the whole cassette at once because of the gnarly climbs he does, then DT friction shifting is the thing to have.

You can drive out a chain pin with a nail and a rock, but who does that? What shop mechanic uses a pocket tool to work on a bike. But if you don't want to buy tools or are enamored of nails and rocks, then who am I to dictate tool (or component) fashion?

-- Jay Beattie.

  #28  
Old November 2nd 18, 09:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 3,770
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:24:16 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
You can drive out a chain pin with a nail and a rock, but who does that? What shop mechanic uses a pocket tool to work on a bike. But if you don't want to buy tools or are enamored of nails and rocks, then who am I to dictate tool (or component) fashion?

-- Jay Beattie.


You can't use just any nail either. It has to be hardened and of the right diameter to drive out the chain link pin and not damage the chain plate. Why anyone would advocate scrounging for a nail and a rock in order to repair a chain is beyond me. Remember that in one of his earlier posts Joerg stated that he got the nail from a fence. A dedicated chain tool on a Multi-tool weighs very little and it can be detached and stored with the proper size hex wrench. My chain breaker uses a 5mm hex key as the handle.

As I've said before, what Joerg probably needs for those super knarly trails he rides is a motorized dirt bike with the motor removed and converted to a chain drive only. After all, he repeatedly states that weight is not a concern. Wait a minute! Weight isn't a concern by a multi-tool that weighs a few ounces is a problem for him to carry? WOW!

I carry what I think I'll need on whatever ride I go on. That varies depending on the terrain and length of the ride and whether I'm riding alone or with a group.

Cheers
  #29  
Old November 3rd 18, 12:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,339
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On 11/2/2018 1:14 PM, Duane wrote:
On 02/11/2018 12:47 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 5:09:42 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 1:25:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-31 10:43, jbeattie wrote:
So I did this CLE speaking gig for the state bar, and they gave me a
little Amazon card that I used to buy myself these uber-cheap Nashbar
p-handle hex wrenches.
https://tinyurl.com/y8rrfyuf (I got via Amazon
for the same price).


That link only produces a security warning here.


¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* ...¬* What a great set of wrenches.¬* I don't know how
I lived without these for so long, particularly with all the recessed
brake lever bolts these days. All this time I've been using long or
standard hex wrenches or hex multi wrenches like this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....PL._SX425_.jpg



I recently bought this, with matching pouch:

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

It appears to be almost indestructible but is too heavy for weight
weenies, over 7oz. I have it only for a few months but it already saved
the bacon twice, for other riders.

I gave one of those to my son, and the problem with that tool is that
the hex wrenches are too short and certainly not anything you would
want for shop work. Getting to the brake lever fixing bolt, you need
a long wrench -- even with some olde tyme levers (assuming they don't
have an 8mm nut), you need a longer hex wrench. Depending on the
design of your bottle cage, shorty wrenches get caught up tightening
the hex bolts. A lot of stuff you can do with a pocket tool, and I
certainly carry one on the road, but most of the stuff I can do with
a pocket tool at home, I use a click torque wrench -- something like
this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1400_.jpg
Or a regular torque wrench for any fastener above 6nm.

The el-cheapo Nashbar wrenches are great for getting to the cable
anchors on the new 105, the brake lever fixing bolts, bottle cage
bolts, initial tightening of crank pinch bolts, etc.¬* Next best are
just long-handle hex wrenches. I use a pocket tool on the road or in
a pinch around the house.

-- Jay Beattie.


You are better of taking¬* separate 4 and 5 mm hex and, lets get crazy
a torx 25 key along with an adequate length instead of these clunky
crap overpriced multitools where 80% of the included tools are never
used and only getting in the way using the few you might actually need.


Probably true.¬* But I'm a group leader in my club and often have to bail
out people with different bikes.¬* I would hate to have to search for
rocks and nails along the road.


I was on a club ride where one guy broke a chain. I didn't find out
until a few minutes after it happened, because I was up ahead. I found
the group puzzling over what to do, and on the verge of calling a cab.

It turned out one woman had a multi-tool that included a chain tool, but
she didn't even know what it was. I borrowed it to take out a link and
get the guy going.

So you're OK as long as one person on a group ride has the necessary
tool - whether they know it or not.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old November 3rd 18, 12:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,339
Default Nashbar P-Handle Wrenches -- and thank you Royal Mail

On 11/2/2018 12:47 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 5:09:42 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 1:25:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-31 10:43, jbeattie wrote:
So I did this CLE speaking gig for the state bar, and they gave me a
little Amazon card that I used to buy myself these uber-cheap Nashbar
p-handle hex wrenches.
https://tinyurl.com/y8rrfyuf (I got via Amazon
for the same price).


That link only produces a security warning here.


... What a great set of wrenches. I don't know how
I lived without these for so long, particularly with all the recessed
brake lever bolts these days. All this time I've been using long or
standard hex wrenches or hex multi wrenches like this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....PL._SX425_.jpg


I recently bought this, with matching pouch:

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

It appears to be almost indestructible but is too heavy for weight
weenies, over 7oz. I have it only for a few months but it already saved
the bacon twice, for other riders.


I gave one of those to my son, and the problem with that tool is that the hex wrenches are too short and certainly not anything you would want for shop work. Getting to the brake lever fixing bolt, you need a long wrench -- even with some olde tyme levers (assuming they don't have an 8mm nut), you need a longer hex wrench. Depending on the design of your bottle cage, shorty wrenches get caught up tightening the hex bolts. A lot of stuff you can do with a pocket tool, and I certainly carry one on the road, but most of the stuff I can do with a pocket tool at home, I use a click torque wrench -- something like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1400_.jpg Or a regular torque wrench for any fastener above 6nm.

The el-cheapo Nashbar wrenches are great for getting to the cable anchors on the new 105, the brake lever fixing bolts, bottle cage bolts, initial tightening of crank pinch bolts, etc. Next best are just long-handle hex wrenches. I use a pocket tool on the road or in a pinch around the house.

-- Jay Beattie.


You are better of taking separate 4 and 5 mm hex and, lets get crazy a torx 25 key along with an adequate length instead of these clunky crap overpriced multitools where 80% of the included tools are never used and only getting in the way using the few you might actually need.


The strategy I heard about was: Go over your bike, checking for every
fastener that might reasonably need tightened. Take tools to fit those,
plus of course whatever you need for tire repair.

Admittedly, that advice was from back in the days of hex head bolts,
slotted screws and the like. These days a 4, 5 and 6 hex key would
probably be sufficient. Anything else would be for charity cases.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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