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Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 18th 17, 09:53 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Woolly Jumper
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Posts: 2
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

**Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017
by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

**The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


It doesn’t surprise me. The liberals like to mollycoddle. It's obvious
that when people feel safer they'll take more risks. Of course, the
liberals will be thinking to lower the speed limit top 10mph, to prevent
people being seriously injured or killed.

I've noticed at crossings on busy roads, when people see the green man,
they just cross without looking for any traffic, thinking that people
that drive will always be alert and stop. I always look to see if
anybody driving as seen the red traffic light. It's saved me from
injuries a few times.

At crossings on busy roads where there are traffic lights but not the
red/green man for pedestrians, I'm always extra cautious before
crossing. The best way for any person not getting run over, is for their
survival instinct to be at the highest level.

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  #12  
Old December 18th 17, 10:01 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
MrCheerful
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Posts: 4,108
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 20:53, Woolly Jumper wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

**Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May
2017 by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national
trend.

**The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


It doesn’t surprise me.* The liberals like to mollycoddle.* It's obvious
that when people feel safer they'll take more risks.** Of course, the
liberals will be thinking to lower the speed limit top 10mph, to prevent
people being seriously injured or killed.

I've noticed at crossings on busy roads, when people see the green man,
they just cross without looking for any traffic, thinking that people
that drive will always be alert and stop. I always look to see if
anybody driving as seen the red traffic light.* It's saved me from
injuries a few times.

At crossings on busy roads where there are traffic lights but not the
red/green man for pedestrians, I'm always extra cautious before
crossing. The best way for any person not getting run over, is for their
survival instinct to be at the highest level.


Except for cyclists, they rely on everyone else for their safety and
take no responsibility at all.
  #13  
Old December 18th 17, 10:07 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Bod[_5_]
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Posts: 2,872
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 20:53, Woolly Jumper wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

**Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May
2017 by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national
trend.

**The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


It doesn’t surprise me.* The liberals like to mollycoddle.* It's obvious
that when people feel safer they'll take more risks.** Of course, the
liberals will be thinking to lower the speed limit top 10mph, to prevent
people being seriously injured or killed.

I've noticed at crossings on busy roads, when people see the green man,
they just cross without looking for any traffic, thinking that people
that drive will always be alert and stop. I always look to see if
anybody driving as seen the red traffic light.* It's saved me from
injuries a few times.

At crossings on busy roads where there are traffic lights but not the
red/green man for pedestrians, I'm always extra cautious before
crossing. The best way for any person not getting run over, is for their
survival instinct to be at the highest level.

---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Agreed, I do the same....*never assume*.

--
Bod
  #14  
Old December 18th 17, 10:27 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Mr Pounder Esquire
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,907
Default Reducing speed to 20mph 'created more deaths than injuries' but council can't afford to scrap them

MrCheerful wrote:
On 18/12/2017 20:53, Woolly Jumper wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Bath and North East Somerset Council spent 871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
loves her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report
has found that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has
gone up in seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report,
published in May 2017 by Bath and North East Somerset Council,
says this is a national trend.

The council suggests people are 'less diligent' when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has
admitted there simply isn't the money available to reverse the
20mph zones.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost 800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


It doesn't surprise me. The liberals like to mollycoddle. It's
obvious that when people feel safer they'll take more risks. Of
course, the liberals will be thinking to lower the speed limit top
10mph, to prevent people being seriously injured or killed.

I've noticed at crossings on busy roads, when people see the green
man, they just cross without looking for any traffic, thinking that
people that drive will always be alert and stop. I always look to
see if anybody driving as seen the red traffic light. It's saved me
from injuries a few times.

At crossings on busy roads where there are traffic lights but not the
red/green man for pedestrians, I'm always extra cautious before
crossing. The best way for any person not getting run over, is for
their survival instinct to be at the highest level.


Except for cyclists, they rely on everyone else for their safety and
take no responsibility at all.


They rely on everything and everybody. This is known as sponging.


  #15  
Old December 19th 17, 10:25 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Handsome Jack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Reducing speed to 20mph created more deaths than injuries

Brian Reay posted
On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

**Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in
the 13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
loves her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has
found that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone
up in seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in
May 2017 by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.


What a pity the report doesn't cite the actual numbers of accidents.
Perhaps they are so insignificant that no inferences can be drawn.
Perhaps in the wards where accidents increased, they increased by only
one each, while in the ward where they decreased, they decreased by 10
each.

Perhaps the annual variations in accident numbers were large *before*
the 20mph limits were introduced, perhaps much larger than the
variations after introduction. Which would suggest that several more
years of data are needed.

**The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking
and crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are
safer. Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has
admitted there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.


http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...ed-deaths-inju
ries-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare


--
Jack
  #16  
Old December 19th 17, 11:27 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Woolly Jumper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 23:38, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 20:53:10 -0000, Woolly Jumper wrote:

On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

* Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017
by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

* The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare



The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


It doesn’t surprise me.* The liberals like to mollycoddle.* It's obvious
that when people feel safer they'll take more risks.** Of course, the
liberals will be thinking to lower the speed limit top 10mph, to prevent
people being seriously injured or killed.

I've noticed at crossings on busy roads, when people see the green man,
they just cross without looking for any traffic, thinking that people
that drive will always be alert and stop. I always look to see if
anybody driving as seen the red traffic light.* It's saved me from
injuries a few times.

At crossings on busy roads where there are traffic lights but not the
red/green man for pedestrians, I'm always extra cautious before
crossing. The best way for any person not getting run over, is for their
survival instinct to be at the highest level.


At lights?!* Round here they just walk blindly across at any point on
the road then are surprised when they hear my horn.


LOL

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  #17  
Old December 19th 17, 12:55 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,044
Default Reducing speed to 20mph created more deaths than injuries

On 19/12/17 09:25, Handsome Jack wrote:
Brian Reay posted
On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

**Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in
the* 13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
loves* her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report
has found* that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has
gone up in* seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report,
published in May 2017* by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says
this is a national trend.



What a pity the report doesn't cite the actual numbers of accidents.
Perhaps they are so insignificant that no inferences can be drawn.
Perhaps in the wards where accidents increased, they increased by only
one each, while in the ward where they decreased, they decreased by 10
each.

Perhaps the annual variations in accident numbers were large *before*
the 20mph limits were introduced, perhaps much larger than the
variations after introduction. Which would suggest that several more
years of data are needed.


Quite. If the death rate was so high that it is possible to notice a
change just one year after the alterations, it seems that they had a
much bigger problem to solve than putting in 20 limits.

Even if they can find something statistically significant after just a
year, perhaps it is because it takes time for people to adjust to the
changes. For instance, perhaps they find their old crossing points are
no longer convenient or optimum and they have to find new ones.

But is 20mph the only change that has been introduced? How about changes
outside the zones that have moved traffic into them? Light controlled
crossings, perhaps? - these encourage risk taking amongst people that
don't want to stand and wait.

But if the changes make people *feel* safer to be out and about, then in
one respect, it must be considered a success. Residential roads that
feel intimidating can't be a valid safety measure.

  #18  
Old December 20th 17, 07:22 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Nick Finnigan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 524
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 17:36, Nightjar wrote:

They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed simply
by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A 20mph zone
has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of traffic
calming measures.


It doesn't have to be: all of the recent 20mph zones in Lancashire just
have new signs on poles.

Those would also need to be removed and the roads
restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.


... and some stretches of roads reverted to 30mph after the locals
complained.
  #19  
Old December 21st 17, 01:05 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Yellow[_3_]
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Posts: 1
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ?created more deaths than injuries? but council can?t afford to scrap them

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 18:22:23 +0000, Nick Finnigan
wrote:

On 18/12/2017 17:36, Nightjar wrote:

They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed simply
by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A 20mph zone
has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of traffic
calming measures.


It doesn't have to be: all of the recent 20mph zones in Lancashire just
have new signs on poles.


Where I live we have loads of 20MPH zones and it too has just been done
with signs and some road markings.



Those would also need to be removed and the roads
restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.


... and some stretches of roads reverted to 30mph after the locals
complained.



  #20  
Old December 21st 17, 12:09 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 18:22:23 +0000
Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 18/12/2017 17:36, Nightjar wrote:

They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed simply
by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A 20mph zone
has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of traffic
calming measures.


It doesn't have to be: all of the recent 20mph zones in Lancashire just
have new signs on poles.

Those would also need to be removed and the roads
restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.


... and some stretches of roads reverted to 30mph after the locals
complained.


I doubt anyone expects cars to stick to 20 anyway. I imagine the thinking
behind it is that at 30 cars do anything up to 40 so put 20 signs up and
they'll do 25-30 which is acceptable.

 




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