A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Coaster Brake Failure



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old February 27th 19, 04:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,691
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2019-02-25 10:12, Ralph Barone wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket

Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+
years old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up
the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software
design.


In Yiddish, it's "farpotchket", which loosely translates to "broken during
the act of fixing it".


That might have the same roots as the German "verpfuscht" or "verpatzt".
When someone tries to design or fix technical stuff and either has no
clue how to go about it, is in a hurry or doesn't really have the budget
for it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #22  
Old February 27th 19, 05:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,691
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk



Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #23  
Old February 27th 19, 05:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,705
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 8:09:00 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk



Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics.


I have Ultegra Di2 on my super rain bike Synapse. Works great except that I broke the rear derailleur wire being careless cleaning the bike in a wash stand. I soldered the broken wire and shrink-wrapped it. I also bought a new wire, but the repair seems to be working fine.

The problem with Di2 -- or maybe just 11sp -- is that chain wear beyond .5% but below .75% really degrades shifting. Down-shifts hang up. I threw on a new chain last night, and now it shifts great. I didn't think I had that much mileage on the chain, but I guess I did. I bought a couple $19 11sp 105 chains from Western Bikeworks for back-ups.

The great thing about Western is that if you buy $50, it's free shipping, but if you pick up in store, its $5 off. I can ride to the store on my way home from work and save $5, although not today because it snowed, and I slacked-off and car-pooled with my son.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #24  
Old February 27th 19, 06:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,826
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2/26/2019 10:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/26/2019 12:09 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/26/19 12:28 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 20:39:48 +0100, Tosspot

wrote:

On 2/25/19 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years old?

It's fake news.* We all know that the old days were *far*
superior to
modern rim/disc brakes.

Honestly, greasing brakes!

Actually the old style single speed coaster brakes did
have grease or
oil in them. See
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/coaster-brakes.html
under "Lubrication".


It's brakes and grease, I will never surrender my opinion
this is a good thing[TM].* How do they work?


They've always, by design, had greased end bearings and bendix ramps.
Classic bronze-on-steel braking or modern steel-steel pushes the
lubricant aside with no issues.

Shimano Roller Brake hubs also need greased brake surfaces.


And of course, lots of motorcycles use wet clutches. Pretty similar physics.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #25  
Old February 27th 19, 06:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,691
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2019-02-27 08:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 8:09:00 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket






Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It
sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's
optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk



Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People
using library modules that others have written, assuming everything
in those we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount
of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never
be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics.


I have Ultegra Di2 on my super rain bike Synapse. Works great except
that I broke the rear derailleur wire being careless cleaning the
bike in a wash stand. I soldered the broken wire and shrink-wrapped
it. I also bought a new wire, but the repair seems to be working
fine.


On the road bike it would probably work for me, not so much on the MTB.
There I shift the front all the time, hundreds of times per ride and the
rear as well, skipping across lots of gears on each shift. From what I
heard that really depletes the battery.


The problem with Di2 -- or maybe just 11sp -- is that chain wear
beyond .5% but below .75% really degrades shifting. Down-shifts hang
up.



My chains spend most of their life in that range. They quickly go to
0.6% or so. On the road bike they tend to stay there and it's the
rollers that wear out. So I have to swap the chain even though stretch
is still 0.6% but the rollers are shot.


... I threw on a new chain last night, and now it shifts great. I
didn't think I had that much mileage on the chain, but I guess I did.
I bought a couple $19 11sp 105 chains from Western Bikeworks for
back-ups.


I just stay with friction shifters on the road bike, Deore M591 on the
MTB and Altus on the beater bike. My motto for vehicles is "If it ain't
broken, don't try to fix it".


The great thing about Western is that if you buy $50, it's free
shipping, but if you pick up in store, its $5 off. I can ride to the
store on my way home from work and save $5, although not today
because it snowed, and I slacked-off and car-pooled with my son.


We don't have many of those in this area. Though I have to check
Sacramento because I ride into that city on my road bike more and more.
Mainly on account of the great brewpubs and because there is a great
bike path leading into the city.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #26  
Old February 27th 19, 08:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,085
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2/27/2019 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 8:09:00 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk



Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics.


I have Ultegra Di2 on my super rain bike Synapse. Works great except that I broke the rear derailleur wire being careless cleaning the bike in a wash stand. I soldered the broken wire and shrink-wrapped it. I also bought a new wire, but the repair seems to be working fine.

The problem with Di2 -- or maybe just 11sp -- is that chain wear beyond .5% but below .75% really degrades shifting. Down-shifts hang up. I threw on a new chain last night, and now it shifts great. I didn't think I had that much mileage on the chain, but I guess I did. I bought a couple $19 11sp 105 chains from Western Bikeworks for back-ups.

The great thing about Western is that if you buy $50, it's free shipping, but if you pick up in store, its $5 off. I can ride to the store on my way home from work and save $5, although not today because it snowed, and I slacked-off and car-pooled with my son.

-- Jay Beattie.


SRAM says their new 12 system has bigger chain rollers &
rivets. For which you need a new chain tool.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #27  
Old February 27th 19, 08:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,249
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2/27/19 5:09 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket






Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+
years old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It
sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's
optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in software design.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk



Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in
those we be just fine. And then things aren't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUrqdUyEpI

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be
caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics.


  #28  
Old February 27th 19, 09:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,705
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/27/2019 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 8:09:00 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics.


I have Ultegra Di2 on my super rain bike Synapse. Works great except that I broke the rear derailleur wire being careless cleaning the bike in a wash stand. I soldered the broken wire and shrink-wrapped it. I also bought a new wire, but the repair seems to be working fine.

The problem with Di2 -- or maybe just 11sp -- is that chain wear beyond .5% but below .75% really degrades shifting. Down-shifts hang up. I threw on a new chain last night, and now it shifts great. I didn't think I had that much mileage on the chain, but I guess I did. I bought a couple $19 11sp 105 chains from Western Bikeworks for back-ups.

The great thing about Western is that if you buy $50, it's free shipping, but if you pick up in store, its $5 off. I can ride to the store on my way home from work and save $5, although not today because it snowed, and I slacked-off and car-pooled with my son.

-- Jay Beattie.


SRAM says their new 12 system has bigger chain rollers &
rivets. For which you need a new chain tool.


And for which they have a chain company. Tres convenient. I wonder how many of the chain manufacturers are going to follow them down that rabbit hole. If Shimano is true to form, it will wait a year and then announce its 12sp -- which will probably have a different chain format. I'm giving up chains and going with the Ceramic Speed cheese grater. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgo-yEaXDzA

-- Jay Beattie.
  #29  
Old February 27th 19, 09:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,826
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2/27/2019 3:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/27/2019 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 8:09:00 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics.

I have Ultegra Di2 on my super rain bike Synapse. Works great except that I broke the rear derailleur wire being careless cleaning the bike in a wash stand. I soldered the broken wire and shrink-wrapped it. I also bought a new wire, but the repair seems to be working fine.

The problem with Di2 -- or maybe just 11sp -- is that chain wear beyond .5% but below .75% really degrades shifting. Down-shifts hang up. I threw on a new chain last night, and now it shifts great. I didn't think I had that much mileage on the chain, but I guess I did. I bought a couple $19 11sp 105 chains from Western Bikeworks for back-ups.

The great thing about Western is that if you buy $50, it's free shipping, but if you pick up in store, its $5 off. I can ride to the store on my way home from work and save $5, although not today because it snowed, and I slacked-off and car-pooled with my son.

-- Jay Beattie.


SRAM says their new 12 system has bigger chain rollers &
rivets. For which you need a new chain tool.


And for which they have a chain company. Tres convenient. I wonder how many of the chain manufacturers are going to follow them down that rabbit hole.


Remember years ago when Shimano tried to get us to buy 10mm chain?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old February 27th 19, 09:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,879
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James
wrote:

On 26/2/19 5:09 pm, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/26/19 12:28 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 20:39:48 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 2/25/19 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old?

It's fake news.* We all know that the old days were *far* superior to
modern rim/disc brakes.

Honestly, greasing brakes!

Actually the old style single speed coaster brakes did have grease or
oil in them. See
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/coaster-brakes.html
under "Lubrication".

It's brakes and grease, I will never surrender my opinion this is a good
thing[TM].* How do they work?


I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work.


Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"?


They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled.

--
JS
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Geared Hubs - Coaster Brake? -Non Coaster-Brake?.... DougC Techniques 2 May 25th 07 03:32 AM
Coaster Brake for 3 spd hub [email protected] Techniques 2 March 15th 07 03:21 AM
Converting coaster brake to hand brake cmcanulty General 2 January 16th 07 09:12 AM
Unicycle with coaster brake? gordito8me Unicycling 5 October 24th 06 09:09 PM
Coaster brake bikes [email protected] Techniques 8 August 26th 06 12:51 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.