Designers vs. engineers

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 11:57:10 AM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 11:35:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 3:12:12 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
New York's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) currently features an exhibition
called "The Value of Good Design." See

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5032

Unfortunately, they include the 1960's Spacelander bicycle as an example
of good design! See
https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibi...image_index=34

I took one for a brief test ride many years ago. MoMA's standards are
certainly far different from mine. It's hard to imagine a heavier,
clumsier rattletrap of a bike. Heck, I'd prefer that Fiat 500!

But then, the rest of the exhibition seems to glorify the 1950s and
1960s as an era of "good design." Weird.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you rode the moon bike? Tell us how that came about.

It was back in the 1980s or maybe 1990s at some big bike
rally. Maybe in Michigan, but I'm not sure.

They had a bunch of oddball bikes at that one, and
people were allowed to test ride some of them. That
was one.

At other rallies, I got to do a short ride on my first
ever recumbent (Avatar 2000) and a British upright
racing tricycle. The Avatar was frustrating for 100 feet
or so, until I was able to relax and let it do its own
balancing. The tricycle was just scary - it seemed
very unstable.

My wife and I also got to try a semi-recumbent tandem,
I forget the brand name, where she was in a front
recumbent seat but I was on a normal upright seat behind
her. That worked surprisingly well, but I guess it
didn't make it in the market.

I sometimes see a couple riding one of those on the local path. If you
want to converse easily with your stoker it seems like the way to go.

--

Remember the Buddy Bike where 2 people sat side by side instead of in tandem? I wondered if that bicycle could be ridden by just one person?

Cheers

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 10:25:03 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 11:35:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 3:12:12 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
New York's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) currently features an exhibition
called "The Value of Good Design." See

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5032

Unfortunately, they include the 1960's Spacelander bicycle as an example
of good design! See
https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibi...image_index=34

I took one for a brief test ride many years ago. MoMA's standards are
certainly far different from mine. It's hard to imagine a heavier,
clumsier rattletrap of a bike. Heck, I'd prefer that Fiat 500!

But then, the rest of the exhibition seems to glorify the 1950s and
1960s as an era of "good design." Weird.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you rode the moon bike? Tell us how that came about.

It was back in the 1980s or maybe 1990s at some big bike
rally. Maybe in Michigan, but I'm not sure.

They had a bunch of oddball bikes at that one, and
people were allowed to test ride some of them. That
was one.

At other rallies, I got to do a short ride on my first
ever recumbent (Avatar 2000) and a British upright
racing tricycle. The Avatar was frustrating for 100 feet
or so, until I was able to relax and let it do its own
balancing. The tricycle was just scary - it seemed
very unstable.

My wife and I also got to try a semi-recumbent tandem,
I forget the brand name, where she was in a front
recumbent seat but I was on a normal upright seat behind
her. That worked surprisingly well, but I guess it
didn't make it in the market.

At those rallies and other places I've gotten to ride
"ordinaries" or high-wheelers and other odd machines.

- Frank Krygowski


Semi-recumbent tandems are truly a niche market, but they do exist. The
Hase Pino is perhaps the best known one. It does solve the "if you're not
the lead dog, the view never changes" problem with regular tandems.

https://hasebikes.com/95-1-Tandem-PINO-ALLROUND.html

I remember being on a sort of group tour where one
couple had one. They seemed very happy with it.

- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 15:24:58 +0000 (UTC),
Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

It was back in the 1980s or maybe 1990s at some big bike
rally. Maybe in Michigan, but I'm not sure.

They had a bunch of oddball bikes at that one, and people were
allowed to test ride some of them. That was one.

At other rallies, I got to do a short ride on my first ever
recumbent (Avatar 2000) and a British upright racing tricycle.
The Avatar was frustrating for 100 feet or so, until I was
able to relax and let it do its own balancing. The tricycle
was just scary - it seemed very unstable.

My wife and I also got to try a semi-recumbent tandem, I
forget the brand name, where she was in a front recumbent seat
but I was on a normal upright seat behind her. That worked
surprisingly well, but I guess it didn't make it in the
market.

At those rallies and other places I've gotten to ride
"ordinaries" or high-wheelers and other odd machines.

Semi-recumbent tandems are truly a niche market, but they do
exist. The Hase Pino is perhaps the best known one. It does
solve the "if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes"
problem with regular tandems.

https://hasebikes.com/95-1-Tandem-PINO-ALLROUND.html

Another option is the Bilenky Viewpoint.

http://www.bilenky.com/viewpoint

I've encountered one or two when out riding here in Indiana.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 8:35:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 3:12:12 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
New York's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) currently features an exhibition
called "The Value of Good Design." See

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5032

Unfortunately, they include the 1960's Spacelander bicycle as an example
of good design! See
https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibi...image_index=34

I took one for a brief test ride many years ago. MoMA's standards are
certainly far different from mine. It's hard to imagine a heavier,
clumsier rattletrap of a bike. Heck, I'd prefer that Fiat 500!

But then, the rest of the exhibition seems to glorify the 1950s and
1960s as an era of "good design." Weird.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you rode the moon bike? Tell us how that came about.

The "modern" designs of everything in the 1950's was ghastly. There was absolutely nothing that was good. From Frank's 40 lb Spacelander to the step stools that would turn over even under the weight of the little kid I was then. None of the modern "furniture" could be used unless you were perfectly the right size and it didn't appear that anyone was. When you would go to the stores like Montgomery-Ward people sitting in them would immediately get up making faces. (As a side note - Montgomery-Ward is STILL in business in the mid-west I believe)

On 3/4/19 4:24 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 11:35:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 3:12:12 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
New York's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) currently features an exhibition
called "The Value of Good Design." See

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5032

Unfortunately, they include the 1960's Spacelander bicycle as an example
of good design! See
https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibi...image_index=34

I took one for a brief test ride many years ago. MoMA's standards are
certainly far different from mine. It's hard to imagine a heavier,
clumsier rattletrap of a bike. Heck, I'd prefer that Fiat 500!

But then, the rest of the exhibition seems to glorify the 1950s and
1960s as an era of "good design." Weird.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you rode the moon bike? Tell us how that came about.

It was back in the 1980s or maybe 1990s at some big bike
rally. Maybe in Michigan, but I'm not sure.

They had a bunch of oddball bikes at that one, and
people were allowed to test ride some of them. That
was one.

At other rallies, I got to do a short ride on my first
ever recumbent (Avatar 2000) and a British upright
racing tricycle. The Avatar was frustrating for 100 feet
or so, until I was able to relax and let it do its own
balancing. The tricycle was just scary - it seemed
very unstable.

My wife and I also got to try a semi-recumbent tandem,
I forget the brand name, where she was in a front
recumbent seat but I was on a normal upright seat behind
her. That worked surprisingly well, but I guess it
didn't make it in the market.

At those rallies and other places I've gotten to ride
"ordinaries" or high-wheelers and other odd machines.

- Frank Krygowski


Semi-recumbent tandems are truly a niche market, but they do exist. The
Hase Pino is perhaps the best known one. It does solve the "if you're not
the lead dog, the view never changes" problem with regular tandems.

https://hasebikes.com/95-1-Tandem-PINO-ALLROUND.html

I've ridden one and they are surprisingly easy given that it was the
first tandem I, and the 'stoker', had ever been on.

100% commitment on the off, and in one pedal revolution all is good :-)

That bile show also had a smaller one of these to get from the station
to the site;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=9CBdLo4rJUs

Tosspot wrote:
On 3/4/19 4:24 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 11:35:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 3:12:12 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
New York's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) currently features an exhibition
called "The Value of Good Design." See

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5032

Unfortunately, they include the 1960's Spacelander bicycle as an example
of good design! See
https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibi...image_index=34

I took one for a brief test ride many years ago. MoMA's standards are
certainly far different from mine. It's hard to imagine a heavier,
clumsier rattletrap of a bike. Heck, I'd prefer that Fiat 500!

But then, the rest of the exhibition seems to glorify the 1950s and
1960s as an era of "good design." Weird.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you rode the moon bike? Tell us how that came about.

It was back in the 1980s or maybe 1990s at some big bike
rally. Maybe in Michigan, but I'm not sure.

They had a bunch of oddball bikes at that one, and
people were allowed to test ride some of them. That
was one.

At other rallies, I got to do a short ride on my first
ever recumbent (Avatar 2000) and a British upright
racing tricycle. The Avatar was frustrating for 100 feet
or so, until I was able to relax and let it do its own
balancing. The tricycle was just scary - it seemed
very unstable.

My wife and I also got to try a semi-recumbent tandem,
I forget the brand name, where she was in a front
recumbent seat but I was on a normal upright seat behind
her. That worked surprisingly well, but I guess it
didn't make it in the market.

At those rallies and other places I've gotten to ride
"ordinaries" or high-wheelers and other odd machines.

- Frank Krygowski


Semi-recumbent tandems are truly a niche market, but they do exist. The
Hase Pino is perhaps the best known one. It does solve the "if you're not
the lead dog, the view never changes" problem with regular tandems.

https://hasebikes.com/95-1-Tandem-PINO-ALLROUND.html

I've ridden one and they are surprisingly easy given that it was the
first tandem I, and the 'stoker', had ever been on.

100% commitment on the off, and in one pedal revolution all is good :-)

That bile show also had a smaller one of these to get from the station
to the site;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=9CBdLo4rJUs



I tried one with both my wife and daughter (neither of whom are avid
cyclists), and the steering and balance were just different enough that I
hesitated just long enough for the seller to sell it to somebody else.
Shame. It was a great price.

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 11:59:33 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 4:12:12 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
New York's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) currently features an exhibition
called "The Value of Good Design." See

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5032

Unfortunately, they include the 1960's Spacelander bicycle as an example
of good design! See
https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibi...image_index=34

I took one for a brief test ride many years ago. MoMA's standards are
certainly far different from mine. It's hard to imagine a heavier,
clumsier rattletrap of a bike. Heck, I'd prefer that Fiat 500!

But then, the rest of the exhibition seems to glorify the 1950s and
1960s as an era of "good design." Weird.

--
- Frank Krygowski

The I look at it a designer designs something and the engineer(s) tell whether it will work or not.


A good friend of mine is a general contractor that builds private homes for a living. He says the worst people he has to deal with are architects.

Zen Cycle wrote:
:On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 11:59:33 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
: On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 4:12:12 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
: New York's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) currently features an exhibition
: called "The Value of Good Design." See
:
: https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5032
:
: Unfortunately, they include the 1960's Spacelander bicycle as an example
: of good design! See
: https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibi...image_index=34
:
: I took one for a brief test ride many years ago. MoMA's standards are
: certainly far different from mine. It's hard to imagine a heavier,
: clumsier rattletrap of a bike. Heck, I'd prefer that Fiat 500!
:
: But then, the rest of the exhibition seems to glorify the 1950s and
: 1960s as an era of "good design." Weird.
:
: --
: - Frank Krygowski
:
: The I look at it a designer designs something and the engineer(s) tell whether it will work or not.
:

:A good friend of mine is a general contractor that builds private homes for a living. He says the worst people he has to deal with are architects.

Architects and engineers say the same thing about contractors.


--
sig 17

On 3/6/2019 12:12 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Zen Cycle wrote:
:On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 11:59:33 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
: On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 4:12:12 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
: New York's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) currently features an exhibition
: called "The Value of Good Design." See
:
: https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5032
:
: Unfortunately, they include the 1960's Spacelander bicycle as an example
: of good design! See
: https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibi...image_index=34
:
: I took one for a brief test ride many years ago. MoMA's standards are
: certainly far different from mine. It's hard to imagine a heavier,
: clumsier rattletrap of a bike. Heck, I'd prefer that Fiat 500!
:
: But then, the rest of the exhibition seems to glorify the 1950s and
: 1960s as an era of "good design." Weird.
:
: --
: - Frank Krygowski
:
: The I look at it a designer designs something and the engineer(s) tell whether it will work or not.
:

:A good friend of mine is a general contractor that builds private homes for a living. He says the worst people he has to deal with are architects.

Architects and engineers say the same thing about contractors.



+1

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/6/2019 1:12 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Zen Cycle wrote:

:A good friend of mine is a general contractor that builds private homes for a living. He says the worst people he has to deal with are architects.

Architects and engineers say the same thing about contractors.

I suppose it's about different priorities. The contractor wants to get
the job done quickly so he can get paid and move on to the next project.
But ISTM that these days, lots of architects want to express their
sculptural talents, no matter how difficult it is for the contractor.

One of my best friends and his little company expanded our house, adding
a shed dormer to the upstairs of our little Cape Cod. I did most of the
design work, but had an architect do the details and draw it up.

Anyway, I specified thicker walls and extra insulation. My friend kept
asking "Are you _sure_ you want that?" Especially when framing and
finishing the windows, it was more work for him. But I held out, and
remain glad.

--
- Frank Krygowski