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The death of rim brakes?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 10th 19, 09:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default The death of rim brakes?

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 12:19:26 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 3:06:56 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/10/2019 10:47 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 11:22:10 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 11:07 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:34:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark

Try to find a ATB without disc brakes. I think that is also gonna happen with road bikes.

Fashion is weird and powerful.

--
- Frank Krygowski

A few years ago I nearly bought a new disc brake equipped MTB when my buddy bought his Da Vinci disc brake equipped MTB. However, after having seen how his bike ate disc brake pads I decide not to replace my old MTB after all.

I wonder how the cost of replacement disc brake pads over a number of years compares to the cost of a new rim over those same number of years? I've never worn out an MTB rim but my buddy was going thorough a pair of disc brake pads every week or so and that was just from riding or paved roads or crushed limestone stone dust rail-trails. He was NOT using the brakes all that much either.

Three bicycle shops here in town could not figure out why his bike ate pads so fast and that includes the shop that specializes in cyclo-cross and MTB trails and has a cyclo-cross team.

Just weird. Rim brakes are fine for a lot of bicyclists yet it seems that once again a choice will eventually be denied to consumers.

On top of that, if your present bicycle is equipped with racks you'll most likely have to buy new ones that are disc brake compatible if you do buy a new bike. Those new racks aren't that cheap either.

Cheers


Depends on which frame you choose. Many quality frames don't
have that problem:

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/wp-conte...up-494x425.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1413/5...b85111f481.jpg


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Right! I forgot that I'd need to use through axles too. In other words nearly everything I have for a bicycle would be obsolete if I went to a disc brake equipped bike. Bummer. I think I'll just stay with my rim brakes. after all, I have enough spare parts including NOS Uniglide cassettes to keep my bicycles in operation until I'm 100 years old or dead whichever comes first.

Cheers


Well, now, that's a really happy thought. Got any other joyful comments which we can dust off and use?
Ads
  #13  
Old March 10th 19, 10:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default The death of rim brakes?

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 12:51:54 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 11:07 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:34:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark

Try to find a ATB without disc brakes. I think that is also gonna happen with road bikes.


Fashion is weird and powerful.


For off road, discs are clearly better. It is not even debatable. Discs are better for some road applications as well, but clearly rim brakes are fine for dry weather road riding with aluminum rims. I'm sure they will be around forever.

-- Jay Beattie.


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...187D&FORM=VIRE

I cannot understand what could have happened to that other video where the owner said that his were not spoked tight enough. These things of mine are so tight that it is difficult to take out the 1 mm untrue that came with. On the tubeless I just bought they were perfect.
  #14  
Old March 10th 19, 10:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,705
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 1:28:28 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 3:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 11:07 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:34:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark

Try to find a ATB without disc brakes. I think that is also gonna happen with road bikes.

Fashion is weird and powerful.


For off road, discs are clearly better. It is not even debatable. Discs are better for some road applications as well...


Agreed - but what is the magnitude on "better"?

As I've said, we're deep into diminishing returns on bikes. Sales
literature pushes people to buy a 17 pound bike instead of a 19 pound
one, so the bike+rider weight diminishes by 1%. Get Dura-Ace instead of
105 because the shifts are 20 milliseconds faster. Ditch your front
derailleur and reduce your aerodynamic drag.


In real life, stopping "better" almost never means anything practical.


but clearly rim brakes are fine for dry weather road riding with aluminum rims. I'm sure they will be around forever.


Yes, and those of us who don't have to do panic stops in the rain on 10%
downhills don't have to respond to this market churning.


Nobody needs anything better than Cambio Corsa!

Those getting into the market are not being price gouged for discs (except perhaps pad costs), and discs are better than rim brakes in many ways. Discs allow you to run massive tires and stop way better than cantis in conditions that justify using massive tires, like mud and snow. If you are a one-bike-quiver kind of person, a disc is really the way to go. Get a bike like my Norco Search, and you could race crits on Saturday, switch the wheels and go ride light single-track on Sunday. Or spend a ton of dough and get one of the 3T aero gravel bikes!
https://us.3t.bike/en/products/bikes...mount-565.html Throw on fenders and big tires and be an all-weather hard man!

Yes, if you jump into the disc and through axle market, don't expect to swap wheels with your 1987 Cannondale -- but then again, don't expect to swap your 1987 wheels with your 1997 wheels. Your rack should work with some spacers on a disc frame. Your disc frame will also have an internal headset, BB30 or something like it (unless you shop for a threaded BB), and probably a half-dozen things that will make you cry about the modern era. Some crying is justified, particularly if you get a frame with all internally routed cabling. But when its all put together, it's quite nice. Again, though, I'm perfectly content with caliper brakes on my dry weather Emonda. Great ride today.


-- Jay Beattie.
  #15  
Old March 10th 19, 10:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 47
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 8:34:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes.. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark


One of my issues is that I realize we will have rim brake bikes for awhile but I just hope to keep the nice looks and basic set up. If it is not broke don't fix the puppy. The one item I have never experience is the idea on a long descend you can blow a tube. In the flatlands that to me seems impossible. To blow a tube on a long descend does the speed have to be really fast like about 40mph or say at 25mph for a long time. The biggest descend I have done is about 7% grade total for about a mile and the last say 1/4 mile is got to 9%. I could easily feather the brakes to avoid heat but maybe my experience is really limited for true mountain riding. Can you just pull the brakes up pretty good to get to a speed that is comfortable. In my case this descend got me to about 43mph my top speed for sure. Had the it been longer I don't know long I could have continued before I got to damn scared.

Confession of the deacon in lent

Deacon Mark
  #16  
Old March 10th 19, 11:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
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Posts: 162
Default The death of rim brakes?

wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 8:34:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am
just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly
for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark


One of my issues is that I realize we will have rim brake bikes for
awhile but I just hope to keep the nice looks and basic set up. If it is
not broke don't fix the puppy. The one item I have never experience is
the idea on a long descend you can blow a tube. In the flatlands that to
me seems impossible. To blow a tube on a long descend does the speed have
to be really fast like about 40mph or say at 25mph for a long time. The
biggest descend I have done is about 7% grade total for about a mile and
the last say 1/4 mile is got to 9%. I could easily feather the brakes to
avoid heat but maybe my experience is really limited for true mountain
riding. Can you just pull the brakes up pretty good to get to a speed
that is comfortable. In my case this descend got me to about 43mph my top
speed for sure. Had the it been longer I don't know long I could have
continued before I got to damn scared.

Confession of the deacon in lent

Deacon Mark


It’s dragging brakes that does it, not personally had it and have more
experience of seeing lorries with burning brakes for the same reason,
around the area I grew up that has some steep and reasonably long hills, as
kids the main road though the village passing over it via a footbridge
you’d see lorries either in the sandpit on fire or driving past smoking.

I’ve ridden down 0.5-22 mile hills on rims and discs, shorter sharper
braking is generally better, and smooth! Is the trick to being quick and
safe.

Roger Merriman

  #17  
Old March 10th 19, 11:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
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Posts: 162
Default The death of rim brakes?

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 3:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 11:07 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:34:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark

Try to find a ATB without disc brakes. I think that is also gonna
happen with road bikes.

Fashion is weird and powerful.


For off road, discs are clearly better. It is not even debatable.
Discs are better for some road applications as well...


Agreed - but what is the magnitude on "better"?

As I've said, we're deep into diminishing returns on bikes. Sales
literature pushes people to buy a 17 pound bike instead of a 19 pound
one, so the bike+rider weight diminishes by 1%. Get Dura-Ace instead of
105 because the shifts are 20 milliseconds faster. Ditch your front
derailleur and reduce your aerodynamic drag.

In real life, stopping "better" almost never means anything practical.

but clearly rim brakes are fine for dry weather road riding with
aluminum rims. I'm sure they will be around forever.


Yes, and those of us who don't have to do panic stops in the rain on 10%
downhills don't have to respond to this market churning.

I have a Gravel bike, it replaces the CX bike. At that size of tyre your on
canti which for a CX race is fine, but rapidly feel underpowered on big
hills even in the dry, on tarmac.

Discs make 30-40mm road bikes much less of a compromise.

I agree that in the dry rims particularly good dual pivots are great brakes
but unless that’s your Sunday best bike that only sees dry roads, it seems
foolish to plan for best case.

Roger Merriman

  #18  
Old March 10th 19, 11:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
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Posts: 162
Default The death of rim brakes?

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 11:22:10 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 11:07 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:34:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark

Try to find a ATB without disc brakes. I think that is also gonna
happen with road bikes.


Fashion is weird and powerful.

--
- Frank Krygowski


A few years ago I nearly bought a new disc brake equipped MTB when my
buddy bought his Da Vinci disc brake equipped MTB. However, after having
seen how his bike ate disc brake pads I decide not to replace my old MTB after all.

I wonder how the cost of replacement disc brake pads over a number of
years compares to the cost of a new rim over those same number of years?
I've never worn out an MTB rim but my buddy was going thorough a pair of
disc brake pads every week or so and that was just from riding or paved
roads or crushed limestone stone dust rail-trails. He was NOT using the
brakes all that much either.

Three bicycle shops here in town could not figure out why his bike ate
pads so fast and that includes the shop that specializes in cyclo-cross
and MTB trails and has a cyclo-cross team.

Just weird. Rim brakes are fine for a lot of bicyclists yet it seems that
once again a choice will eventually be denied to consumers.

On top of that, if your present bicycle is equipped with racks you'll
most likely have to buy new ones that are disc brake compatible if you do
buy a new bike. Those new racks aren't that cheap either.

Cheers


That probably depends on your use case, personally I found wet gritty MTB
rides shredded pads on Canti back in the day, and CX bikes until recently.
Disc pads particularly sintered last a fair bit 3k on the gravel bike and
commute bike, MTB hugely varied though it’s a much more capable than the
old rim MTB I used and thus gets used harder so not a terribly fair
comparison.

I’ve had some cheap rack on my old MTB for commute for few years, now disc
ones aren’t a problem, there have been discs for over 10 years now it’s
mildly new for road bikes but for MTBs it’s old tech it’s self!

Roger Merriman

  #19  
Old March 10th 19, 11:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 356
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 4:48:00 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 11:22:10 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 11:07 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:34:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark

Try to find a ATB without disc brakes. I think that is also gonna happen with road bikes.


Fashion is weird and powerful.

--
- Frank Krygowski


A few years ago I nearly bought a new disc brake equipped MTB when my buddy bought his Da Vinci disc brake equipped MTB. However, after having seen how his bike ate disc brake pads I decide not to replace my old MTB after all.

I wonder how the cost of replacement disc brake pads over a number of years compares to the cost of a new rim over those same number of years? I've never worn out an MTB rim but my buddy was going thorough a pair of disc brake pads every week or so and that was just from riding or paved roads or crushed limestone stone dust rail-trails. He was NOT using the brakes all that much either.

Three bicycle shops here in town could not figure out why his bike ate pads so fast and that includes the shop that specializes in cyclo-cross and MTB trails and has a cyclo-cross team.

Just weird. Rim brakes are fine for a lot of bicyclists yet it seems that once again a choice will eventually be denied to consumers.

On top of that, if your present bicycle is equipped with racks you'll most likely have to buy new ones that are disc brake compatible if you do buy a new bike. Those new racks aren't that cheap either.

Cheers


That is an unusual wear of pads.

Lou
  #20  
Old March 11th 19, 01:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,826
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 3/10/2019 6:15 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 3:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/10/2019 11:07 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:34:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal.

Deacon Mark

Try to find a ATB without disc brakes. I think that is also gonna
happen with road bikes.

Fashion is weird and powerful.

For off road, discs are clearly better. It is not even debatable.
Discs are better for some road applications as well...


Agreed - but what is the magnitude on "better"?

As I've said, we're deep into diminishing returns on bikes. Sales
literature pushes people to buy a 17 pound bike instead of a 19 pound
one, so the bike+rider weight diminishes by 1%. Get Dura-Ace instead of
105 because the shifts are 20 milliseconds faster. Ditch your front
derailleur and reduce your aerodynamic drag.

In real life, stopping "better" almost never means anything practical.

but clearly rim brakes are fine for dry weather road riding with
aluminum rims. I'm sure they will be around forever.


Yes, and those of us who don't have to do panic stops in the rain on 10%
downhills don't have to respond to this market churning.

I have a Gravel bike, it replaces the CX bike. At that size of tyre your on
canti which for a CX race is fine, but rapidly feel underpowered on big
hills even in the dry, on tarmac.

Discs make 30-40mm road bikes much less of a compromise.

I agree that in the dry rims particularly good dual pivots are great brakes
but unless that’s your Sunday best bike that only sees dry roads, it seems
foolish to plan for best case.


Well, the rim brakes on my various bikes are the ones that were used for
_every_ case since 1976. The only brake failure I ever experienced was
before them, on my first super-cheap 10 speed with chrome steel rims,
during a pouring thunderstorm. I had to overshoot the turn I was
planning to make.

I don't care if people prefer discs. But it bothers me when
manufacturers or others start implying that rim brakes are inadequate
for even ordinary riding.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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