randonneur

Emanuel Berg wrote:
"
writes:

Too expensive??? The cross brake levers

Ralph's bike.


Half the price of SMS's preferred Koga Traveller.

jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 3:44:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 4:39:50 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 1:24:10 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 3:13:25 PM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:
jbeattie writes:

Shockingly, the vaunted Koga signature World
Traveler is made out of 6061 like my old Cannondale
T1000. That was a great touring bike, although it
wouldn't fit giant tires -- but I never wanted giant
tires. That article draws interesting distinctions
between true touring bikes and randonettes, which,
according to Tim, should be the proper designation.
Who knew that I needed a touring bike that could
carry 45-50 kgs -- just in case I hit a deer and
need to take it with me. I rode across the US with
less than 45 pounds

20 kg is still a lot, I aim for around 12 including
water and everything. Then again I never crossed the
US on a bike so I'm not messing with results. I still
want a steel frame tho

I usually carried 30 - 35 pounds total when traveling alone. That included
tent, sleeping bag, maybe a camp stove and some food. I always thought I took
too much, but I was never able to get my load much under 30 pounds, unless
it was "credit card touring," staying entirely in motels.

Going coast to coast, I think I carried 40 pounds on my bike. But some of that
was stuff I carried for my ladies. It also included that backpacking stove
and food, which in retrospect was silly. They have restaurants.

- Frank Krygowski

When I hit the heat on the other side of the Rockies (going east), I
mailed half of my gear back home -- including my rain gear. You don't
need it for the Mid-West, mid-day deluge. Nothing will prevent you from
getting soaked, but then you dry out in about ten minutes. My stove
went back, too. It was too hot to cook.

-- Jay Beattie.

In all of my loaded touring I have never used a stove or cooked my own
food. Too simple for the past 25 years to just eat in restaurants or
buy food already to eat. Gas stations, convenience stores, grocery
stores all have food ready to eat. No need to cook raw food on a
bicycle trip. At worst just carry a can opener and buy a can of chicken
breast or tuna and a couple cans of pork and beans. Tasty meal. Add
some bread and raw fruit and you have a feast.

You're missing out on ramen! Hot chocolate at night is nice, but its all
optional. A lot of stuff is optional, even when you're camping. But then
again, I have no idea what it is like to do the Amazon tour or the
Tibetan plateau tour. I've ridden in some remote areas of the West, but
not that remote. No need for a satellite phone or 50kg of gear. I take
quinine, but only in gin and tonic.

-- Jay Beattie.


Coming from New Orleans, I can highly recommend quinine to protect against
malaria. Having some now with Bombay Sapphire. Throw in some vitamin c
and you should be good to go. Doing it for years and no malaria. Works in
the great north as well.

I’ve done some camping and some camping by bike. Canned chicken was not
something I’d consider. Didn’t even know it was a thing. Better to bring
a rod and reel and get some catfish.

--
duane

On 27/05/18 23:49, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2018 6:52 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

The Fuji bike also has 36 spoke wheels, or as they put
it, it has

Â*Â*Â*Â* Vera Terra DPM18, double wall, 36/36h, Shimano
Â*Â*Â*Â* Deore hubs [1]

That sounds straightforward only why do they say "36"
twice? To say there are 36 holes on the hub as well?
Makes sense, right?

Or do they mean the front/rear wheel?

Perhaps someone got the idea to reinforce the rear
wheel with more spokes than the front ditto, e.g.
to have 36 rear and 32 front (or 28/32). Then you
could write the bike has 32/36h rims - practical!

Perhaps for randonneuring/heavy touring one would even
want 40 or 48 spokes on the rear wheel?


Back when the Earth was young, The Ancients discovered that 32h
front/40h rear is as close to perfect as one might imagine. Adds some
niggling cost and therefore abandoned.


Why not tow a trailer?

http://www.bobgear.com/bike-trailers/yak

No need for special racks and bags on the bike. By swapping the cranks
and cassette, I could use my otherwise regular road bike to go touring!

--
JS

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 4:24:15 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 3:44:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 4:39:50 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 1:24:10 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 3:13:25 PM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:
jbeattie writes:

Shockingly, the vaunted Koga signature World
Traveler is made out of 6061 like my old Cannondale
T1000. That was a great touring bike, although it
wouldn't fit giant tires -- but I never wanted giant
tires. That article draws interesting distinctions
between true touring bikes and randonettes, which,
according to Tim, should be the proper designation.
Who knew that I needed a touring bike that could
carry 45-50 kgs -- just in case I hit a deer and
need to take it with me. I rode across the US with
less than 45 pounds

20 kg is still a lot, I aim for around 12 including
water and everything. Then again I never crossed the
US on a bike so I'm not messing with results. I still
want a steel frame tho

I usually carried 30 - 35 pounds total when traveling alone. That included
tent, sleeping bag, maybe a camp stove and some food. I always thought I took
too much, but I was never able to get my load much under 30 pounds, unless
it was "credit card touring," staying entirely in motels.

Going coast to coast, I think I carried 40 pounds on my bike. But some of that
was stuff I carried for my ladies. It also included that backpacking stove
and food, which in retrospect was silly. They have restaurants.

- Frank Krygowski

When I hit the heat on the other side of the Rockies (going east), I
mailed half of my gear back home -- including my rain gear. You don't
need it for the Mid-West, mid-day deluge. Nothing will prevent you from
getting soaked, but then you dry out in about ten minutes. My stove
went back, too. It was too hot to cook.

-- Jay Beattie.

In all of my loaded touring I have never used a stove or cooked my own
food. Too simple for the past 25 years to just eat in restaurants or
buy food already to eat. Gas stations, convenience stores, grocery
stores all have food ready to eat. No need to cook raw food on a
bicycle trip. At worst just carry a can opener and buy a can of chicken
breast or tuna and a couple cans of pork and beans. Tasty meal. Add
some bread and raw fruit and you have a feast.

You're missing out on ramen! Hot chocolate at night is nice, but its all
optional. A lot of stuff is optional, even when you're camping. But then
again, I have no idea what it is like to do the Amazon tour or the
Tibetan plateau tour. I've ridden in some remote areas of the West, but
not that remote. No need for a satellite phone or 50kg of gear. I take
quinine, but only in gin and tonic.

-- Jay Beattie.


Coming from New Orleans, I can highly recommend quinine to protect against
malaria. Having some now with Bombay Sapphire. Throw in some vitamin c
and you should be good to go. Doing it for years and no malaria. Works in
the great north as well.

I’ve done some camping and some camping by bike. Canned chicken was not
something I’d consider. Didn’t even know it was a thing. Better to bring
a rod and reel and get some catfish.

One of my favorite gin and tonic experiences -- on a tour, sitting on the deck with my wife at Little River Inn near Mendocino, Ca. Right he https://www.dailyrepublic.com/files/...nn_Balcony.jpg There is a campground down below. No catfish, but you can get salmon. We were on a tour from PDX to San Jose. It was dreary on the coast so we cut inland to wine country, and I wine tasted myself into a spectacular headache. Lessons learned: (1) remember to drink water on hot days and not just wine, and (2) make absolutely sure your head is not pointed downhill in your tent when you go to bed at night after drinking wine all day.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 6:24:15 PM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 3:44:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
In all of my loaded touring I have never used a stove or cooked my own
food. Too simple for the past 25 years to just eat in restaurants or
buy food already to eat. Gas stations, convenience stores, grocery
stores all have food ready to eat. No need to cook raw food on a
bicycle trip. At worst just carry a can opener and buy a can of chicken
breast or tuna and a couple cans of pork and beans. Tasty meal. Add
some bread and raw fruit and you have a feast.

I’ve done some camping and some camping by bike. Canned chicken was not
something I’d consider. Didn’t even know it was a thing. Better to bring
a rod and reel and get some catfish.

--
duane

Canned chicken is sold right next to the canned tuna. I assume your grocery stores sell canned tuna? The canned chicken is breast meat. Better tasting than tuna. Rod and reel? I've heard more than a few stories of people fishing all day and not catching a single fish. Not the way I want to plan my supper. I like sure things. Opening up a can of tuna or chicken is a sure thing. Fishing 1, 2, 3, 6, 12 hours for one fish? Carrying a rod and bait?

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:29:09 PM UTC-5, James wrote:

Why not tow a trailer?

http://www.bobgear.com/bike-trailers/yak

No need for special racks and bags on the bike. By swapping the cranks
and cassette, I could use my otherwise regular road bike to go touring!

Yes Bob trailers work for touring with a road racing bicycle. Some people love them. But they have their downsides too. The bike handles very differently. And the trailer weighs about 15 pounds all by itself empty. Far more than the weight of racks on a touring bike. And the plastic bag on the Bob weighs more than the four panniers too. And its easy to carry too much with a Bob because you have all this space to carry stuff. Lot of people make the error of filling up every spare space. And there is the problem of transporting the Bob trailer. Bikes in the past flew as free luggage. Not anymore. But now after paying for the bike box, you ALSO have to pay for the trailer box too. Paying on both ends of your trip. Assuming your trips require airlines.

On 5/27/2018 8:29 PM, James wrote:

Why not tow a trailer?

http://www.bobgear.com/bike-trailers/yak

No need for special racks and bags on the bike.Â* By swapping the cranks
and cassette, I could use my otherwise regular road bike to go touring!

I guess they work for some people, especially if you're guaranteed to
never need motorized transport at any point in your trip.

We used the trailer feature of our folding Bikes Friday on our first
trip to Europe with those bikes.
https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-b...th-trailer.jpg
(That's their photo, not mine.) The idea is, the bike is designed to
fit in the suitcase so it flies without hassle from airlines. When you
arrive, you take the suitcase with you, trailer-style.

An upside was that we had nothing but handlebar bags on our bikes. All
our clothing, etc. stayed in the trailer, so we could park the trailer
in the B&B or hotel and use the bikes easily in cities. And of course,
it meant the suitcase that carries the bike on the airplane would be
with us the entire trip; that enabled us to land and depart from
different airports.

Downsides? It's a much bulkier package overall, even when looking for a
place to lean the bikes against a wall. Getting on and off mass transit
was much more of an adventure, and so was finding space on board mass
transit. Squeezing through tight spaces was challenging. There are more
points of failure, starting with extra tires of an odd size. (I once
scraped against a bollard at a bike trail entrance and lost the clip
assembly that held on a trailer wheel. Others have had more serious
failures.) Total weight is higher than a bike with packs, and you
certainly feel it uphill. Tight corners can be a challenge, due to the
trailer cutting the corner. Getting the rig up even two stair steps is a
challenge... and so on.

On subsequent trips, I left the trailers at home. I fitted the bikes
with rear racks and used Rick Steves bags
https://store.ricksteves.com/shop/p/classic-backpack sitting vertically
above the rear wheel. (I added a clip to help attach the top of the bag
to the seatpost.) We found this to be much more convenient overall.

YMMV.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 28/05/18 12:16, wrote:
On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:29:09 PM UTC-5, James wrote:

Why not tow a trailer?

http://www.bobgear.com/bike-trailers/yak

No need for special racks and bags on the bike. By swapping the
cranks and cassette, I could use my otherwise regular road bike to
go touring!

Yes Bob trailers work for touring with a road racing bicycle. Some
people love them. But they have their downsides too. The bike
handles very differently.

I noticed that when I towed my trailer with a racing bike built from 1"
853, it made the bike feel very flexible. On my Columbus Spirit road
bike with oversized tubes, it is fine. It is just as fine towing behind
my MTB. I suspect if I loaded my 853 bike with pannier racks and such,
it would feel quite noodle-like as well.

And the trailer weighs about 15 pounds all
by itself empty. Far more than the weight of racks on a touring
bike. And the plastic bag on the Bob weighs more than the four
panniers too.

Wow. You must have very light pannier bags. The ones I used when I was
a lad were fairly heavy, made from canvas with hard boards and metal
hooks, etc. Far heavier than the bag I have for my trailer.

And its easy to carry too much with a Bob because you
have all this space to carry stuff. Lot of people make the error of
filling up every spare space. And there is the problem of
transporting the Bob trailer. Bikes in the past flew as free
luggage. Not anymore. But now after paying for the bike box, you
ALSO have to pay for the trailer box too. Paying on both ends of
your trip. Assuming your trips require airlines.


The trailer I have (Bob Yak style), can easily be disassembled and folds
flat. I doubt I'd have any difficulty adding to a bike box.

--
JS

AMuzi writes:

Back when the Earth was young, The Ancients
discovered that 32h front/40h rear is as close to
perfect as one might imagine. Adds some niggling
cost and therefore abandoned.

Sounds great, I'd like it! Don't the Asian (Indian)
transport bikes have 40 spokes?

--
underground experts exiled

On 27/05/2018 10:07 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 6:24:15 PM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 3:44:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
In all of my loaded touring I have never used a stove or cooked my own
food. Too simple for the past 25 years to just eat in restaurants or
buy food already to eat. Gas stations, convenience stores, grocery
stores all have food ready to eat. No need to cook raw food on a
bicycle trip. At worst just carry a can opener and buy a can of chicken
breast or tuna and a couple cans of pork and beans. Tasty meal. Add
some bread and raw fruit and you have a feast.

I’ve done some camping and some camping by bike. Canned chicken was not
something I’d consider. Didn’t even know it was a thing. Better to bring
a rod and reel and get some catfish.

--
duane

Canned chicken is sold right next to the canned tuna. I assume your grocery stores sell canned tuna? The canned chicken is breast meat. Better tasting than tuna. Rod and reel? I've heard more than a few stories of people fishing all day and not catching a single fish. Not the way I want to plan my supper. I like sure things. Opening up a can of tuna or chicken is a sure thing. Fishing 1, 2, 3, 6, 12 hours for one fish? Carrying a rod and bait?


Sarcasm really doesn't work on usenet.

I wouldn't eat canned chicken. I barely can tolerate canned tuna. The
idea of traveling by bike or foot and using that for fuel doesn't work
for me. Whether hiking or camping by bike I usually bring my rod, reel
and a few lures. (bait? maybe the canned chicken would work for
that...) But I'm not going to carry canned goods. And if I'm planning
to buy them on the spot, I would buy something like pasta salad fixings.
Canned meat and beans doesn't seem like good fuel.

There are a few pretty good outdoor outfitter places around. I have a
set of camping pots that fit into each other and weigh probably less
than two cans of tuna. They also sell these freeze dried meal packs and
I carry a few of them in case I can't find a grocery or a fishing pond.