Am I being being ripped off here?

My headset was no longer turning smoothly, so I bought a new one.

I could not see how to get the old one out - so I took it to a local shop
who removed both.

I then found that the jaws on the massive vice I had would not go wide
enough to accommodate the frame as I had intended to squeeze them in. I
looked at the frame trying to figure another way but felt I had to get the
shop to do it too.

The original shop said they would put them in with a hammer and a block of
wood - so I called another who said they put them in with a special
compression tool.

After they tried to fit it they called me into the workshop and said my
frame was cracked in two places - where the lower part had gone.

They told me it must have been there before - and they never noticed it
until the new one was being pushed in. I only really know standard
maintenance procedures - and thought it was just a risk it could happen when
trying to replace a headset, as this was the way the shop were portraying
it. But when I tried to buy a new frame the two shops I spoke to said it
would have been a warranted repair if it had not happened with the bikeshop
changing the headset. They told me to complain to the manager of the shop
who broke it, as all three of the shop, the previous shop and myself had not
noticed cracks beforehand - but they were very obvious now.

They ignored my initial letter then asked me to go in to see them. The list
of reasons it was their fault included, I was too heavy for the bike (14
stone), the new headset was wider, the old headset had caused the damage but
it was entirely unnoticeable on the frame, but they eventually said if I
paid to have it taken to a framebuilder they dealt with 200 miles away and
he could say for certain it was they who broke it - then after I paid the
transport and inspection costs they would replace the frame. These costs
almost equalled the cost of a new frame - and I really did not want them
doing work with what was left of my bike given their attitude.

What do you think?

Sorry -it was meant to say "the list of reasons it was NOT their fault"

If it makes any difference too - the frame was an aluminium one.

Ray Vaughan wrote:

What do you think?

If its an aluminium frame its toast - not worth repairing. In aluminium in
that position a crack would also not last long without propagating and
becoming very noticeable. Sounds like you are being given the run around. If
the first bike shop is willing to confirm to you in writing that the frame was
not cracked when they took the headset out then I would recover the frame and
headset from the other shop and take out a small claims court action to
recover the replacement cost. You might be able to get someone locally or
the manufacturer to look at the frame and tell you whether its a new crack or
not. Whether or not the paint is chipped around it would be one sign.

Whatever the outcome, good luck

Tony

"Ray Vaughan" wrote in message m...
My headset was no longer turning smoothly, so I bought a new one.

Big Snip
What do you think?

Threaten them with a metallurgist and see what they say. Or else see
what the offending shop who broke it offer you in trade-up. Or out
them ;-)
MM

No one said they could say when it happened without seeing it before and the
shop said it was in the interest of the first shop to claim there was no
damage - as they (the first shop) could have caused it..

The cost of sending the bike too and from the frame builder was roughly £20
each way and £20 to £30 to inspect - and a new frame was £70.ex everything

The cost of going to the small claims court was £40 and a days time, amounts
under £200 do not recover costs it seems - so when I win I get £30 for a
day, and they don't even have to show.

The attitude of the shop seemed lousy - they claimed they never replied
initially as the manager was not there - but I find it difficult a bike shop
would go without anyone running it for so long before Christmas - the other
is issue was why ask me to go in rather than address the questions in my
letter - the entire thing seems more of a fob off now - as they seem to know
the options cost more than the solutions.

Additionally - as you mentioned there was no chipping about the cracks - and
they initially suggested as it got worse to insert coke cans in to keep it
tight. It was not as if the shop was a small one either - it is probably
one of the largest in the country.

The shop who removed it initially said there was no cracks there originally
and it was tight when he removed the originals - and I had looked at it for
quite a while as I tried to figure a way to put the headset in without
hitting it - so would have noticed cracks especially as I could see both the
outside and inside - but they claimed it could have been cracked under the
paint and the paint just burst when they put the headset in.

If anyone else has any suggestions - please say - and I will copy it to the
shop.




"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Ray Vaughan wrote:

What do you think?

If its an aluminium frame its toast - not worth repairing. In aluminium
in
that position a crack would also not last long without propagating and
becoming very noticeable. Sounds like you are being given the run around.
If
the first bike shop is willing to confirm to you in writing that the frame
was
not cracked when they took the headset out then I would recover the frame
and
headset from the other shop and take out a small claims court action to
recover the replacement cost. You might be able to get someone locally
or
the manufacturer to look at the frame and tell you whether its a new crack
or
not. Whether or not the paint is chipped around it would be one sign.

Whatever the outcome, good luck

Tony

Ray Vaughan wrote:

: They ignored my initial letter then asked me to go in to see them. The list
: of reasons it was their fault included, I was too heavy for the bike (14
: stone),


I'd stop right there. Yup, you're being had. 14 stone isn't exactly
race whippet weight, but any bike (with the exception of a few
£2000+ super light race bikes which have 80kg rider weight limits)
will handle that fine.

: the new headset was wider, the old headset had caused the damage but
: it was entirely unnoticeable on the frame, but they eventually said if I
: paid to have it taken to a framebuilder they dealt with 200 miles away and
: he could say for certain it was they who broke it - then after I paid the
: transport and inspection costs they would replace the frame. These costs
: almost equalled the cost of a new frame - and I really did not want them
: doing work with what was left of my bike given their attitude.

At the least, they should offer that if the framebuilder said it was them,
then they would cover *all* of your costs, including sending the bike away.

All that said, bikes do go at the headset sometimes, so it's not necessarily
them wot's bust it. Their attitude stinks though.

Arthur





--
--
Arthur Clune

Ray Vaughan wrote:

If anyone else has any suggestions - please say - and I will copy it to the
shop.

It is easy to determine whether a crack is freshly opened (ie caused by
the shop) or a gradual fatigue-related failure. Once they realise that
you know that, they are likely to back down with an embarassed mumble...

James

"Ray Vaughan" wrote in message
...
They told me it must have been there before - and they never noticed it
until the new one was being pushed in.

Possible if they never inspected it before insertion of the new cup.

The list
of reasons it was their fault included, I was too heavy for the bike (14
stone),

********, unless a very lightweight bike with specific limitations.


the new headset was wider,

So why would any mechanic worth his salt try and wedge it in?

But if they seriously suggested, as per your later post, to pack it out with
coke cans they are either a bunch of cack-handed ignorant ******* or
peetaking *******.
Loose headset cups can be fitted with bearing fit (Loctite or similar) but
by the time you can start shimming something is seriously wrong.

Pete

"Ray Vaughan" wrote in message
...
cut......

What do you think?

Name and Shame these shops?
peter

"Ray Vaughan" wrote in message
...
My headset was no longer turning smoothly, so I bought a new one.

I could not see how to get the old one out - so I took it to a local shop
who removed both.

I then found that the jaws on the massive vice I had would not go wide
enough to accommodate the frame as I had intended to squeeze them in. I
looked at the frame trying to figure another way but felt I had to get the
shop to do it too.

The original shop said they would put them in with a hammer and a block of
wood - so I called another who said they put them in with a special
compression tool.

After they tried to fit it they called me into the workshop and said my
frame was cracked in two places - where the lower part had gone.

They told me it must have been there before - and they never noticed it
until the new one was being pushed in. I only really know standard
maintenance procedures - and thought it was just a risk it could happen
when
trying to replace a headset, as this was the way the shop were portraying
it. But when I tried to buy a new frame the two shops I spoke to said it
would have been a warranted repair if it had not happened with the
bikeshop
changing the headset. They told me to complain to the manager of the shop
who broke it, as all three of the shop, the previous shop and myself had
not
noticed cracks beforehand - but they were very obvious now.

They ignored my initial letter then asked me to go in to see them. The
list
of reasons it was their fault included, I was too heavy for the bike (14
stone), the new headset was wider, the old headset had caused the damage
but
it was entirely unnoticeable on the frame, but they eventually said if I
paid to have it taken to a framebuilder they dealt with 200 miles away and
he could say for certain it was they who broke it - then after I paid the
transport and inspection costs they would replace the frame. These costs
almost equalled the cost of a new frame - and I really did not want them
doing work with what was left of my bike given their attitude.

What do you think?


Ray,
Unfortunately you're probably going to have to put it all down to experience
and cover it yourself. All evidence is circumstantial, so there will never
be a guaranteed outcome which sees all of your costs covered. You could end
up more out of pocket and still have to buy a new frame.
If it's any help, just to make yourself feel a bit better, badmouth them at
every opportunity you get. I appreciate they are not an independent
operation (possibly hence the crappy service - contact head office ?), but
even one or two redirected sales could provide a certain amount of cold
comfort.
Dave.