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What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 9th 05, 01:15 PM
David Kerber
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?

In article A54Ue.12014$Cc5.10596@lakeread06,
says...
IMKen wrote:
Titanium is not as hard as steel. It will cut with tools easily
available to a thief. It is strong on a strength to weight ration
only.
Russians build Nuclear Submarines from the stuff so you can see that
is not even rare.


How many ended up at the bottom of the ocean?


Two, I believe (the Mike was Ti for sure). The rest were steel-hulled.

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  #23  
Old September 9th 05, 02:21 PM
Mark Hickey
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?

David Kerber wrote:

Ti is stronger than steel by unit weight, but not by unit volume, so for
the same tensile strength, it would be about the same diameter, but
lighter. Ti, however, is also not particularly hard, which makes it
vulnerable to hacksaws. Steel, OTOH, can be made case-hardened, which
makes the outside resistant to hacksaws while keeping the inside
malleable so the chain as a whole doesn't get brittle. Ti might be good
as a towchain, though ggg - nice and light.


Actually, ti has a couple characteristics that might actually make it
a good choice for a bike lock. It can be a bear to cut through - it
tends to "smear" when cutting, though I don't know how much of an
impediment that would be to a hacksaw. The only ti I've ever
hacksawed through was a skewer, and I do remember being amazed at how
long it took (had it been steel, it would have been MUCH faster).

Depending on the alloy, it's capable of quite a bit of elongation
before it ruptures - that might make it more difficult to use a bottle
jack to "pop" a U-lock. But the ultimate strength would still be less
on a volume basis than hi-tensile steel, so it CAN break.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
  #24  
Old September 9th 05, 07:58 PM
IMKen
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?

I just put a file test to a piece of TI tubing in my desk. It filed like
butter, much like aluminum. I don't know what it's ability to be hardened
is. Perhaps it age/work hardens like aluminum or can be heat treated.
Think I will stick with high quality HT alloy steel locks. Need to learn
more about TI.

Ken


"Mark Hickey" wrote in message
...
David Kerber wrote:

Ti is stronger than steel by unit weight, but not by unit volume, so for
the same tensile strength, it would be about the same diameter, but
lighter. Ti, however, is also not particularly hard, which makes it
vulnerable to hacksaws. Steel, OTOH, can be made case-hardened, which
makes the outside resistant to hacksaws while keeping the inside
malleable so the chain as a whole doesn't get brittle. Ti might be good
as a towchain, though ggg - nice and light.


Actually, ti has a couple characteristics that might actually make it
a good choice for a bike lock. It can be a bear to cut through - it
tends to "smear" when cutting, though I don't know how much of an
impediment that would be to a hacksaw. The only ti I've ever
hacksawed through was a skewer, and I do remember being amazed at how
long it took (had it been steel, it would have been MUCH faster).

Depending on the alloy, it's capable of quite a bit of elongation
before it ruptures - that might make it more difficult to use a bottle
jack to "pop" a U-lock. But the ultimate strength would still be less
on a volume basis than hi-tensile steel, so it CAN break.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame



  #25  
Old September 10th 05, 02:03 AM
Jasper Janssen
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:15:01 -0400, David Kerber
wrote:

Two, I believe (the Mike was Ti for sure). The rest were steel-hulled.


Wasn't the Kursk a Ti one?

Jasper
  #26  
Old September 10th 05, 04:58 AM
Kurgan Gringioni
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?


Jasper Janssen wrote:
On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:15:01 -0400, David Kerber
wrote:

Two, I believe (the Mike was Ti for sure). The rest were steel-hulled.


Wasn't the Kursk a Ti one?





Dumbass -

Yep.

Nice stuff, but doesn't do a lot of good when the liquid fueled torpedo
goes off inside the hull.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

  #27  
Old September 10th 05, 06:08 AM
Howard Kveck
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?

In article ,
Mark Hickey wrote:

David Kerber wrote:

Ti is stronger than steel by unit weight, but not by unit volume, so for
the same tensile strength, it would be about the same diameter, but
lighter. Ti, however, is also not particularly hard, which makes it
vulnerable to hacksaws. Steel, OTOH, can be made case-hardened, which
makes the outside resistant to hacksaws while keeping the inside
malleable so the chain as a whole doesn't get brittle. Ti might be good
as a towchain, though ggg - nice and light.


Actually, ti has a couple characteristics that might actually make it
a good choice for a bike lock. It can be a bear to cut through - it
tends to "smear" when cutting, though I don't know how much of an
impediment that would be to a hacksaw. The only ti I've ever
hacksawed through was a skewer, and I do remember being amazed at how
long it took (had it been steel, it would have been MUCH faster).


Titanium is very prone to galling in any abrasive or surface-to-surface
contact, and that includes cutting or drilling it . That's why it makes a lousy
bearing suface. You can cut down on the galling with proper cutting speed (which
will be slow) and copious lubrication. It also tends to do what I think of as
localized case hardening when being cut or drilled (particularly at the wrong
surface speed - i.e. too fast) and that tends to overheat the cutting tool,
which then loses its edge. Running a hacksaw through a piece of cp or grade 2
titanium isn't that bad as long as there is a good amount of proper lubricant.
But it's a different story when you're cutting a piece of 6al4v or 3al2.5v.
Those alloys are much tougher than the other ones I mentioned. I'd still rather
machine 6-4.

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
  #28  
Old September 10th 05, 06:28 AM
Kurgan Gringioni
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?


Mark Hickey wrote:

Actually, ti has a couple characteristics that might actually make it
a good choice for a bike lock.




Dumbass -

Ya, right. (cough cough cough)

If you really think so, maybe you should develop a ti lock. The market
is yours for the taking.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

  #29  
Old September 10th 05, 04:43 PM
Lee
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?


"David L. Johnson" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:38:09 -0700, NYC XYZ wrote:


What's up with that? Surely there are those who would pay premium
dollar for a lightweight but extremely strong chain lock made of
titanium. If I understand things correctly, titanium should be
unbreakable, right? I mean, it's the stuff tank armor is made of!



For my $400 bike, I'll pay $50 for a lock to keep it safe.

For my $4,000 bike, I don't use a lock.

Lee



  #30  
Old September 10th 05, 07:10 PM
Kurgan Gringioni
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Default What's The Deal with Titanium Chain Locks?


David Kerber wrote:

The main military applications for Ti are where weight is vital and they
can put up with the cost, such as certain pieces of aircraft structures.
Most of an aircraft structure, though, is made of aluminum. The
Russians use it for some submarine pressure hulls, because the weight
savings means they can put more stuff in a physically smaller hull.
They also have about 90% of the world's Ti reserves, so it's a lot
cheaper for them than for the rest of the world.




Dumbass -

Actually, it's not "a lot" cheaper for them. It's perhaps a tiny bit
cheaper.

Titanium is a very abundant element, the 4th most abundant on earth.
Since the Russians have so much of it, they may have a slight refining
advantage, but not much of one since there's so much of it worldwide.

Most of the cost of refining titanium ore is in the form of energy.
Energy is a commodity. The Soviet Communists were able to spend
outrageous amounts of energy developing titanium hulled subs, but the
Russians are in a free market economy now and they can't afford it.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

 




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