#11
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Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote: Where are all the black riders? What is it about our sport that makes it so unappealing to an entire race of people? Could overlap with social class issues. Possibly in poorer neighborhoods, as in poorer countries, bikes are used as transport because people do not have the option of cars. So when they become upwardly mobile, they eschew what they see as symbols of poverty. Among social elites, instead, the bike is seen as ecological, intellectual and aware. People take it for granted that they _can_ afford cars, and therefore the bike is the conscious choice of the green and handsome and fit and hip. I had a boss of Tunisian extraction for whom this was very true. He was the first person in his family to have "made it" in Western capitalist terms. Even though he lived only about 15 minutes from his workplace on foot, he always drove in with a huge, expensive car. It was a status symbol. I tried to persuade him to have a green conscience and cycle in, and he understood me rationally, but just couldn't get his heart into it. Too much like what he had put behind him. EFR Ile de France |
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#12
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"RonSonic" wrote
So ah, what part has he got wrong? snip Or is your dudgeon all the explanation necessary? Well, that and the quote, I would have thought. The implication that all black people are poor, and that all that all black people are interested in doing for recreation is basketball (in overpriced shoes, no less). Those (followed up by more generalization about what "black people like to (do)") were what I took umbrage at, if it wasn't clear. -Brendon |
#13
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"Elisa Francesca Roselli" wrote
Could overlap with social class issues. Possibly in poorer neighborhoods, as in poorer countries, bikes are used as transport because people do not have the option of cars. So when they become upwardly mobile, they eschew what they see as symbols of poverty. Among social elites, instead, the bike is seen as ecological, intellectual and aware. People take it for granted that they _can_ afford cars, and therefore the bike is the conscious choice of the green and handsome and fit and hip. This is a more reasonable and sensitively-put potential explanation for some of the issue (if indeed there even is one); well-put. -Brendon |
#14
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Chris Zacho "The Wheelman" wrote:
Yet at any one of these organizations or events, I could count the total number of "Afro-American" riders with the fingers of one hand. The portion of South Carolina where I live now, according to the latest census, has a population that is about 60% black. Yet the local club, which has nearly 100 members, to my knowledge has only one black cyclist. Hardly an accurate representation of the population at large. Nope. But neither is the NBA. Blacks are a minority in this country, yet they dominate the NBA. You could ask where all the white players are. To be sure, there ARE whites playing basketball, but at the professional level whites are a minority. In fact, I'll be willing to bet, that out of all the posters on this board, only one, maybe two, max. are black. If indeed anybody here is. Where are all the black riders? What is it about our sport that makes it so unappealing to an entire race of people? I don't think it's unappealing, per se. I think it's just cultural. I would wager that, on the whole, blacks have less interest in bicycling as a recreational sport than whites. I think every sport, in fact, tends to be played by one group more than the other. I don't think this is bad - just the way things are. -Bill Henry |
#15
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On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:12:32 -0500, "Brendon M. Troy"
wrote: "RonSonic" wrote So ah, what part has he got wrong? snip Or is your dudgeon all the explanation necessary? Well, that and the quote, I would have thought. The implication that all black people are poor, and that all that all black people are interested in doing for recreation is basketball (in overpriced shoes, no less). Those (followed up by more generalization about what "black people like to (do)") were what I took umbrage at, if it wasn't clear. I really do think it is best if we make it clear. And even willing to play devil's advocate in that way. So often indignation is used in place of reason and persuasion. That doesn't work for me and I do call out those things out of habit. The OP was, I am sure, being deliberately provocative. But did manage to stay IMO in fair territory while making a feint for the sideline you were covering. We'll see if he actually had a point beyond seeing if he could get other people to argue. Ron |
#16
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Chris Zacho "The Wheelman" wrote:
I have been riding for over 30 years now. I've been the member of many clubs, large and small, on both coasts and in the middle. I've been to and done many organized rides (short, long and "are you nuts?") and bike rallies boasting attendances ranging from the hundreds to the thousands. Yet at any one of these organizations or events, I could count the total number of "Afro-American" riders with the fingers of one hand. One hand? Dang! The portion of South Carolina where I live now, according to the latest census, has a population that is about 60% black. Yet the local club, which has nearly 100 members, to my knowledge has only one black cyclist. Hardly an accurate representation of the population at large. You must be down in the low country. I'm in Upstate SC. Sadly, the numbers here aren't much better (should be ever lower, though). On organized rides up here, I've seen maybe five (at most) other black folks, and one was a girl. Two guys I saw seemed to be pretty skilled riders, whereas I'm a noob. I saw one guy (who claims to have a twin brother who rides, but I think he was pulling my leg) on different charity ride events. In fact, I'll be willing to bet, that out of all the posters on this board, only one, maybe two, max. are black. Dang! Does that mean I'm just about the only black poster here? If indeed anybody here is. Where are all the black riders? What is it about our sport that makes it so unappealing to an entire race of people? Anybody have any theories? Well, I don't claim to have any answers beyond the obvious: Be like Mike. I personally have no interest in organized team sports, other than cycling, which I discovered only recently. I see lots of black guys playing golf on a course along one of my riding routes. Of course, lots of black guys go to the gym to lift weights and play basket and racquetball. I predict that the numbers will increase, though. I'm a regular on the roads around here and I got my last girlfriend into it. Maybe I can draw my current girlfriend it, but she's pretty committed to running, so maybe not. The LA thingie will draw some more in, too, maybe. |
#17
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In article ,
RonSonic writes: The OP was, I am sure, being deliberately provocative. But did manage to stay IMO in fair territory while making a feint for the sideline you were covering. We'll see if he actually had a point beyond seeing if he could get other people to argue. Nah, Chris has posted to the newsgroup for quite a while, and I know he's no troll. I'm sure he has genuinely perceived a dearth of black cyclists (particularly in club circles,) and he sincerely and innocently wonders why that is. I've similarly noticed in my own local experience how pre-college-aged youth appears to be under-represented among cyclists, although there seems to be a recent trend away from that. cheers, Tom -- -- Nothing is safe from me. Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca |
#18
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On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 05:00:41 -0500, Chris Zacho "The Wheelman" wrote:
Where are all the black riders? Quite a few folks of all shades around here on the park paths. Tons of Xmart bike riders--hey whatever gets you into the sport. It's a cultural thing as many have said--it's not some dangerous third rail topic--we can generalize and say that Canadians are more likely to play hockey than Nicaraguans--and not feel weird about it. LOL I have seen quite a dramatic increase of black folks on high zoot rides around here which is interesting... I've chatted with a few of the black dudes on fancy rides around here, and indeed a lot of the guys are refugees from "traditionally black" sports like basketball and football and were recommended cycling by their trainers or doctors as a lower impact sports. Cycling is also making into the mainstream and appeals to folks of all backgrounds--it's not the mysterious sport of nail on cleats and stinky wool anymore. |
#19
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maxo wrote:
It's a cultural thing as many have said--it's not some dangerous third rail topic--we can generalize and say that Canadians are more likely to play hockey than Nicaraguans--and not feel weird about it. LOL I believe that any and all topics should be fodder for discussion in a reasonable, thoughtful, dispassionate, and intellectual way. That starts with a tacit agreement that comes only from knowing the rest of the participants in a discussion fairly well. This is a pretty incendiary topic--arguably more so than politics or--dare I say--gruppo manufacturers. It also calls for the speculation /of/ a large group of people as to the reasons for the absence of a large group of people, largely absent that group's participation. Not inherently unfair. Not even inherently inappropriate. But I still see Robot, from "Lost In Space" waving his arms . . . . |
#20
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Neil Brooks wrote:
maxo wrote: It's a cultural thing as many have said--it's not some dangerous third rail topic--we can generalize and say that Canadians are more likely to play hockey than Nicaraguans--and not feel weird about it. LOL I believe that any and all topics should be fodder for discussion in a reasonable, thoughtful, dispassionate, and intellectual way. That starts with a tacit agreement that comes only from knowing the rest of the participants in a discussion fairly well. This is a pretty incendiary topic--arguably more so than politics or--dare I say--gruppo manufacturers. Let me elaborate he I don't think the topic is inherently incendiary, based on my first paragraph. I think it's incendiary based on the potential for ill-conceived, mean spirited responses that are based more in ignorance, prejudice, preconception, or bigotry than in any semblance of fact. Back to the peanut gallery.... |
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