There should be a law against ramming.

On 16/03/2011 09:22, Doug wrote:
On Mar 15, 1:30 pm, wrote:
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

and reports of ramming
None of which have been both credible and from the UK.
Really! you should have payed better attention I have already published
this incident.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...ntral-12556275

You were originally talking about cyclists.

This is about deliberate ramming, not just the ramming of cyclists.

However, yes, that is indeed as you claim - albeit pedestrian rather than
cyclist - and I will gladly join you in roundly condemning the little
turd for his actions.

You say 'roundly' and then proceed to make excuses for him.

However, the injury was far from serious - 15minutes of a "dead leg" -
and the judge found that there was insufficient evidence to prove it was
deliberate.

Here is another one so now will you withdraw your claim that these
sources are not credible?

"Two teenage boys are being held on suspicion of attempted murder after
allegedly ramming a police car and sending an officer flying over the
bonnet.

A second armed police officer was dragged for around 6ft underneath a
car in Battersea, south London..."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ys-held-after-

ramming-car-into-police.html

Again, no serious injuries. The occupants of the car should not have been
driving - a 14& 15yo - and were very probably engaged in seriously
illegal activity at the time. Despite that being three years ago, I can
find no record of the trial, so don't know what the final convictions
were.

Are you trying to claim the sources are not credible? Your feeble
excuses for ramming make no difference. It doesn't matter how serious
the injuries were, the crime is the same, the intentional use of a
weapon to case physical harm to a person.


However, I do deny that it's anywhere near as frequent as you make out,
and I do deny that it happens (except VERY rarely) without extreme
provocation on the part of the person rammed.
Where have I claimed how often it occurs?

Just this morning, you said "it is a relatively common occurrence"

So what do you think the word 'relative' means, semanticist?

Message-ID:403c360e-6ba1-4725-



UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is not a licence to kill, never has been.


I am glad that you admit "It doesn't matter how serious the injuries
were, the crime is the same"

I and others will remind you of this when you claim otherwise on other
subjects.
(You had better get the wheels on the goalposts oiled)

Tony Dragon gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...ntral-12556275

However, yes, that is indeed as you claim - albeit pedestrian rather
than cyclist - and I will gladly join you in roundly condemning the
little turd for his actions.

However, the injury was far from serious - 15minutes of a "dead leg" -
and the judge found that there was insufficient evidence to prove it
was deliberate.

I am glad that you admit "It doesn't matter how serious the injuries
were, the crime is the same"

It does beg the question of whether Duhg can explain why he thinks that
murder would have been an appropriate charge in the first case he
reported, as he repeatedly claims it should be in ramming cases.

On Mar 15, 2:13*pm, "AndyW" wrote:
"Doug" wrote in message

...
Previously you made the claim that...

"So there haven't been any killed by deliberate ramming then?"

Which was not only wrong but considerably stupid.

---

But given that the whole thread is a debate on whether or not to introduce a
law in the UK is it not a little odd to introduce a murder using a car that
occurred in the US?

Not if it is to inform those here in denial about rammings.

If they are so common I would have expected you to find a case from the UK.

I have and many times in the past but there are still deniers, even
when it is shown on video. Among the many examples of ramming I have
shown on video is one where a bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the
front number plate of a bus and another where a bicycle rear wheel is
trapped by the front number plate of a taxi. The result of a
deliberate ramming couldn't be any clearer than that.

It makes as much sense as using shooting statistics from the US to validate
introducing a gun law in the UK or using stats from South Africa to justify
introducing a law in the UK about taking lions from the wild.

That's just silly, denier. One would expect laws dealing with violent
acts to be similar among similar societies and motorists around the
world to behave similarly under similar conditions.

People like you here seem to be claiming that ramming may be serious
in the US but not in the UK, for some obscure reason, as well as only
relevant above an, as yet, unspecified level of injury caused.

Perhaps you would care to claim what level of injury is required to
make ramming illegal?

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

Doug gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

If they are so common I would have expected you to find a case from the
UK.

I have and many times in the past but there are still deniers, even when
it is shown on video.

I do not recall ONE SINGLE video you have linked to that has lived up to
your claims of it.

Among the many examples of ramming I have shown on video is one where a
bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the front number plate of a bus and
another where a bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the front number plate
of a taxi. The result of a deliberate ramming couldn't be any clearer
than that.

Care to provide another link to those videos as an aide memoire?

Perhaps you would care to claim what level of injury is required to make
ramming illegal?

Strange how you seem to have moved away from crying about regular serious
injuries and deaths, eh?

On Mar 16, 10:04*am, Adrian wrote:
Doug gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

If they are so common I would have expected you to find a case from the
UK.
I have and many times in the past but there are still deniers, even when
it is shown *on video.

I do not recall ONE SINGLE video you have linked to that has lived up to
your claims of it.

Among the many examples of ramming I have shown on video is one where a
bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the front number plate of a bus and
another where a bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the front number plate
of a taxi. The result of a deliberate ramming couldn't be any clearer
than that.

Care to provide another link to those videos as an aide memoire?

As Gollum undoubtedly won't, I'll do a public service and provide
some:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...656bf12?q=taxi

(Do yourself a favour and fast forward to 4:30)

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...07eb2205b74f1b

(At 2:48)

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...03fc58dd?q=bus

(No video, but I assume this is the one involving the bus)

On 16/03/2011 09:44, Doug wrote:
On Mar 15, 2:13 pm, wrote:
wrote in message

...
Previously you made the claim that...

"So there haven't been any killed by deliberate ramming then?"

Which was not only wrong but considerably stupid.

---

But given that the whole thread is a debate on whether or not to introduce a
law in the UK is it not a little odd to introduce a murder using a car that
occurred in the US?

Not if it is to inform those here in denial about rammings.

If they are so common I would have expected you to find a case from the UK.

I have and many times in the past but there are still deniers, even
when it is shown on video. Among the many examples of ramming I have
shown on video is one where a bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the
front number plate of a bus

Which did not show the alleged incident.

and another where a bicycle rear wheel is
trapped by the front number plate of a taxi.

As above

The result of a
deliberate ramming couldn't be any clearer than that.

It makes as much sense as using shooting statistics from the US to validate
introducing a gun law in the UK or using stats from South Africa to justify
introducing a law in the UK about taking lions from the wild.

That's just silly, denier. One would expect laws dealing with violent
acts to be similar among similar societies and motorists around the
world to behave similarly under similar conditions.

People like you here seem to be claiming that ramming may be serious
in the US but not in the UK, for some obscure reason, as well as only
relevant above an, as yet, unspecified level of injury caused.

Perhaps you would care to claim what level of injury is required to
make ramming illegal?


UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a not licence to kill, never has been.

BrianW gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

If they are so common I would have expected you to find a case from
the UK.

I have and many times in the past but there are still deniers, even
when it is shown Â*on video.

I do not recall ONE SINGLE video you have linked to that has lived up
to your claims of it.

Among the many examples of ramming I have shown on video is one where
a bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the front number plate of a bus
and another where a bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the front number
plate of a taxi. The result of a deliberate ramming couldn't be any
clearer than that.

Care to provide another link to those videos as an aide memoire?

As Gollum undoubtedly won't, I'll do a public service and provide some:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...ng/browse_frm/
thread/3b320f6a7b175311/86fa06e87656bf12?q=taxi

(Do yourself a favour and fast forward to 4:30)

So that's
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dg-bgbOBU0hA

Which doesn't show either a bicycle rear wheel trapped by the front plate
of a bus OR a bicycle rear wheel trapped by the front plate of a taxi.
However, it does seem to show rather a lot of people deliberately
obstructing other traffic whilst deliberately ignoring traffic signals
and causing breaches of the peace. (and crimes against poetry, but that's
a separate issue)

There is a section showing somebody deliberately getting in the way of a
very slow moving taxi whilst trying to obstruct it, though. But - nothing
trapped, no injury, no damage, and the only premeditation appears to be
on the part of the cyclist.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...07eb2205b74f1b

(At 2:48)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrT1mEcF7h4

That one, does seem to feature the aftermath of a collision at traffic
lights - but no way to tell whose fault it was or if it was deliberate.
The direction the bicycle's pointing in might appear to indicate that the
cyclist deliberately moved into the path of the taxi, though.

There is an actual impact videoed a little later - 4:28 - where two
cyclists are deliberately blocking a moped rider and explaining to him
why they're refusing to let him go about his business - and he gives them
a very minor nudge. Again, no damage, no injury - and they barely even
pause in their lecture and obstruction. Strangely, the next "ramming"
seems to have been edited out.

There's a third "deliberate ramming" in there, too - 7:00. Yet again, it
seems to involve somebody deliberately obstructing traffic - and is
followed by cries of "Smash his car!"

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...ng/browse_frm/
thread/551b9b80a5668630/9f37034003fc58dd?q=bus

(No video, but I assume this is the one involving the bus)

That thread links to this video
http://www.archive.org/details/CM30-10-09

There's a bus and a bicycle, yes. But - strangely - again nothing to show
what happened, much less that it was "deliberate". Once again, plenty of
deliberate obstruction of legitimate traffic, though - including a group
of cyclists circling round a marked police vehicle to prevent it moving
off.

Also strange how all three of those videos seem to be credited only to a
"Doug", despite previous requests for sources to be "credible".

Somebody cynical might think that this "Doug" was actually trying to
subvert, distort and discredit the Critical Mass event.

On Mar 16, 12:53*pm, Adrian wrote:
BrianW gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

If they are so common I would have expected you to find a case from
the UK.
I have and many times in the past but there are still deniers, even
when it is shown *on video.
I do not recall ONE SINGLE video you have linked to that has lived up
to your claims of it.
Among the many examples of ramming I have shown on video is one where
a bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the front number plate of a bus
and another where a bicycle rear wheel is trapped by the front number
plate of a taxi. The result of a deliberate ramming couldn't be any
clearer than that.
Care to provide another link to those videos as an aide memoire?
As Gollum undoubtedly won't, I'll do a public service and provide some:
*http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...ng/browse_frm/

thread/3b320f6a7b175311/86fa06e87656bf12?q=taxi



(Do yourself a favour and fast forward to 4:30)

So that'shttp://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dg-bgbOBU0hA

Which doesn't show either a bicycle rear wheel trapped by the front plate
of a bus OR a bicycle rear wheel trapped by the front plate of a taxi.
However, it does seem to show rather a lot of people deliberately
obstructing other traffic whilst deliberately ignoring traffic signals
and causing breaches of the peace. (and crimes against poetry, but that's
a separate issue)

There is a section showing somebody deliberately getting in the way of a
very slow moving taxi whilst trying to obstruct it, though. But - nothing
trapped, no injury, no damage, and the only premeditation appears to be
on the part of the cyclist.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...07eb2205b74f1b

(At 2:48)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrT1mEcF7h4

That one, does seem to feature the aftermath of a collision at traffic
lights - but no way to tell whose fault it was or if it was deliberate.

S'obvious it is, though, innit? I mean, stanstareasondunnit?

The direction the bicycle's pointing in might appear to indicate that the
cyclist deliberately moved into the path of the taxi, though.

There is an actual impact videoed a little later - 4:28 - where two
cyclists are deliberately blocking a moped rider and explaining to him
why they're refusing to let him go about his business - and he gives them
a very minor nudge. Again, no damage, no injury - and they barely even
pause in their lecture and obstruction. Strangely, the next "ramming"
seems to have been edited out.

There's a third "deliberate ramming" in there, too - 7:00. Yet again, it
seems to involve somebody deliberately obstructing traffic - and is
followed by cries of "Smash his car!"

That doesn't count.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...ng/browse_frm/

thread/551b9b80a5668630/9f37034003fc58dd?q=bus

(No video, but I assume this is the one involving the bus)

That thread links to this videohttp://www.archive.org/details/CM30-10-09

There's a bus and a bicycle, yes. But - strangely - again nothing to show
what happened, much less that it was "deliberate".

S'obvious it is, though, innit? I mean, stanstareasondunnit?

Once again, plenty of
deliberate obstruction of legitimate traffic, though - including a group
of cyclists circling round a marked police vehicle to prevent it moving
off.

Also strange how all three of those videos seem to be credited only to a
"Doug", despite previous requests for sources to be "credible".

Ah, but you are assuming that the "Doug" in question is "our Doug",
whereas in fact the videos were prepared by Doug Bollen. Who is not
"our Doug". Honest.

Somebody cynical might think that this "Doug" was actually trying to
subvert, distort and discredit the Critical Mass event.

I don't know how you can say such a thing.

"Doug" wrote in message
...
On Mar 15, 2:13 pm, "AndyW" wrote:

That's just silly, denier. One would expect laws dealing with violent
acts to be similar among similar societies and motorists around the
world to behave similarly under similar conditions.

Denier.
Ah the classic Doug-ism. Accuse with no evidence then run away when evidence
is requested.
Please quote where I have denied that ramming exists?
Quote or else have the good grace to retract although I note that on a
number of previous occassions I have asked for proof you have evaded or just
left the thread.

People like you here seem to be claiming that ramming may be serious
in the US but not in the UK, for some obscure reason, as well as only
relevant above an, as yet, unspecified level of injury caused.

Quote where I said that it is not serious in the UK?
This is a UK issue on UK laws on a UK NG and you posted a US case as
evidence.....a bit like the time where you posted a list of examples of
'animal testing in the UK' that actually occuurred in the US as was clearly
indicated in the cite you posted.... but you ran away from that discussion
IIRC.

Perhaps you would care to claim what level of injury is required to
make ramming illegal?

Why should I?
Deliberate ramming with a car or bicylce is already illegal. You seem to
live in a fantasy land where deliberately ramming a car against a cyclist
will not result in consequences to the driver.
You may recall the post somewhere above about a driver who rammed
pedestrians and was prosecuted.
Let me see if I can recall who posted it......... Oh! it was you.


Andy

On 15/03/2011 23:14, Phil W Lee wrote:


I know personally of several cases, involving different people, and
zero provocation, unless (as a good little moton)

Moton; A small piece of Armour used to protect the armpit.


you regard simply
using the roads with a slower vehicle "extreme provocation".
One was even captured in full detail on an independent cctv, and the
police STILL wouldn't report the (taxi) driver for prosecution.

Are you serious? Given CCTV evidence of what is technically assault and
the Police ignored it?

Don't be such a tosser.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk