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#51
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 08:50:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 16:50:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: Also icludes such things as front asd rear reflectors, reflective tape and wheel reflectors which by law have to be on every bike sold but which many bicyclists immediately remove as being unsightly. Same for a bell = required by law but most bicyclists would never dream of putting one on their bicycle. I helped a friend purchase a bicycle at an LBS (local bike shop). I was a bit surprised when the shop offered to supply the mandatory pedal reflectors[1] in a bag or box instead of installing them on the pedals. I didn't ask if that was to save the LBS the effort of installing them, or save the buyer the effort of removing them. I don't recall if it was the same story with the other reflectors. I bought a pair of Shimano pedals that had removable reflectors which came separate from the pedals in the box. As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas which peddle is "best". Interesting that you should mention the bell. I have 3 or 4 bells, all of which I consider to be junk. Problems vary from self disassembly while riding to insufficient loudness where needed. I had some of these on the bicycle I keep at the office and use for errands around town. The bell has problems dealing with traffic and construction noises. I think my next bell will be a horn type loudspeaker driven by a sound effects generator. I want ALL the sound to project in my direction of travel, and not wasted on anything to the sides or rear. I don't know if I can design a loudspeaker with sufficient directionality to do this, but I'll give it try (time permitting). You can buy a "fog Horn" that is powered by some sort of compressed gas that will, I guarantee, blow a hole in either a crowd of pedestrian or maybe even 10 wheel trucks :-) https://www.amazon.com/Air-Horn-misc.../dp/B002DG967W But of course, this would be tremendously un-cool. Far better a dainty little thing that you can flick with your thumb and goes "tinkle, tinkle". YMMV YMMV = "your mileage may vary". What phrase does one use in Europe where kilometers are used instead of miles? [1] From the California Vehicle Code: Reflectors: At night bicycles must have the following reflectors: Visible from the back: red reflector. You may attach a solid or flashing red rear light in addition to the reflector. Visible from the front & back: white or yellow reflector on each pedal or on the bicyclist's shoes or ankles Visible from the side: 1) white or yellow reflector on the front half of the bicycle and 2) a red or white reflector on each side of the back half of the bike. These reflectors are not required if the bike has reflectorized front and back tires. CVC 21201(d) -- Cheers, John B. |
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#52
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B.
wrote: As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas which peddle is "best". I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left off the pedals. Although it was not mentioned, I suspect it was also to keep some enterprising thief from just jumping onto a bicycle in the showroom and riding off into the sunset. You can buy a "fog Horn" that is powered by some sort of compressed gas that will, I guarantee, blow a hole in either a crowd of pedestrian or maybe even 10 wheel trucks :-) https://www.amazon.com/Air-Horn-misc.../dp/B002DG967W That's rather extreme. I don't want to cause a panic. A bell is fine, but I want the sound to project forward more than to the sides and back, where people don't need to hear it. Such products already exist, but I want to make my own. https://www.google.com/search?q=electronic+bicycle+bell&tbm=isch https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electronic+bicycle+bell -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#53
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On 6/3/2017 2:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B. wrote: As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas which peddle is "best". I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left off the pedals. I might believe that if it applied to handlebars. I can't see how removing pedals would save much room. Before "clipless" (also known, weirdly enough, as "clip-in") pedals, all bikes in shops had pedals installed, and essentially all shoes fit essentially all pedals. Now high end bike buyers tend to have their own favorite pedal+shoe combinations, with many being incompatible. So pedals are left off the high end bikes. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#54
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 11:46:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B. wrote: As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas which peddle is "best". I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a Well yes, but in defense it might be noted that Samuel Clemens once said "I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing". peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left off the pedals. Although it was not mentioned, I suspect it was also to keep some enterprising thief from just jumping onto a bicycle in the showroom and riding off into the sunset. You can buy a "fog Horn" that is powered by some sort of compressed gas that will, I guarantee, blow a hole in either a crowd of pedestrian or maybe even 10 wheel trucks :-) https://www.amazon.com/Air-Horn-misc.../dp/B002DG967W That's rather extreme. I don't want to cause a panic. A bell is fine, but I want the sound to project forward more than to the sides and back, where people don't need to hear it. Such products already exist, but I want to make my own. https://www.google.com/search?q=electronic+bicycle+bell&tbm=isch https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electronic+bicycle+bell The best bike bell I've seen mounted on the fork and the "striker" was actuated by the spokes so that when you "rang the bell" it went ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding... Somewhat similar to https://oldbike.wordpress.com/1949-nsu-gents-bicycle/ although that one is driven by the tire. I had a bell on my "utility bike for a while but people don't seem to pay attentiion to a meek and mild "ding ding" any more so I just say "EXCUSE ME" in a loud voice which seems to work pretty well. -- Cheers, John B. |
#55
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 21:59:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 6/3/2017 2:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B. wrote: As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas which peddle is "best". I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left off the pedals. I might believe that if it applied to handlebars. I can't see how removing pedals would save much room. The bicycles were fairly tightly stacked together (and also hanging from the ceiling). The handlebars partly extend over the adjacent bicycle's top tube and are slightly staggered to keep alternate handlebars from hitting each other. Something like this, but on the floor, not the wall: https://cdn.instructables.com/F2J/R9UO/J2JET9K5Q2T/F2JR9UOJ2JET9K5Q2T.RECT2100.jpg I'll try to drop in next week and take a few photos. It's been a while and they may have rearranged the LBS or reduced their inventory. Before "clipless" (also known, weirdly enough, as "clip-in") pedals, all bikes in shops had pedals installed, and essentially all shoes fit essentially all pedals. They don't fit my slightly oversized steel toe construction boots, which I often wear to work. One some of my machines, my toes hit the back end of the front wheel. http://www.sears.com/wolverine-men-s-cirrus-safety-toe-hiker-brown/p-067T0171000P Platform pedals help, but if I tried to ride a department store machine wearing these boots, I would have problems. Now high end bike buyers tend to have their own favorite pedal+shoe combinations, with many being incompatible. So pedals are left off the high end bikes. Yep. Standards are a good thing. Every company should have as many as possible. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#56
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:08:20 +0700, John B.
wrote: I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a Well yes, but in defense it might be noted that Samuel Clemens once said "I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing". I agree. Therefore, I rarely mis-spell my errors the same way twice. Same with my grammar errors. I do have a proper proofreader, but she has the weekend off. I have to survive with only my spelling chequer. The best bike bell I've seen mounted on the fork and the "striker" was actuated by the spokes so that when you "rang the bell" it went ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding... That's mechanically clever, but easily duplicated electronically. I guess I should add a switch to my electronic bell labeled; off, semi auto, full auto. I had a bell on my "utility bike for a while but people don't seem to pay attentiion to a meek and mild "ding ding" any more so I just say "EXCUSE ME" in a loud voice which seems to work pretty well. Exactly one of the problems I'm trying to solve. I was thinking of simply installing a forward facing parabolic reflector with a mechanical bell at the focus to reflect as much sound forward as possible. However, that would be like installing a drogue chute on my machine. Some manner of horn type loudspeaker should be sufficient. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#57
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 10:32:08 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 21:59:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/3/2017 2:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 10:25:57 +0700, John B. wrote: As an aside, my LBS sell high end bikes "without pedals" as they assume that anyone who buys a $3,000 bike will have his own ideas which peddle is "best". I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a peddler. At that price level, buyers would likely be using cleated shoes making the standard pedal a remove throw away item, like the reflectors. I noticed the practice at an LBS and asked why none of the bicycles on the racks had pedals. I was told that it's so they are short on floor space can pack more bicycles together if they left off the pedals. I might believe that if it applied to handlebars. I can't see how removing pedals would save much room. The bicycles were fairly tightly stacked together (and also hanging from the ceiling). The handlebars partly extend over the adjacent bicycle's top tube and are slightly staggered to keep alternate handlebars from hitting each other. Something like this, but on the floor, not the wall: https://cdn.instructables.com/F2J/R9UO/J2JET9K5Q2T/F2JR9UOJ2JET9K5Q2T.RECT2100.jpg I'll try to drop in next week and take a few photos. It's been a while and they may have rearranged the LBS or reduced their inventory. Before "clipless" (also known, weirdly enough, as "clip-in") pedals, all bikes in shops had pedals installed, and essentially all shoes fit essentially all pedals. They don't fit my slightly oversized steel toe construction boots, which I often wear to work. One some of my machines, my toes hit the back end of the front wheel. http://www.sears.com/wolverine-men-s-cirrus-safety-toe-hiker-brown/p-067T0171000P Platform pedals help, but if I tried to ride a department store machine wearing these boots, I would have problems. Now high end bike buyers tend to have their own favorite pedal+shoe combinations, with many being incompatible. So pedals are left off the high end bikes. Yep. Standards are a good thing. Every company should have as many as possible. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 If the pedals are removed you can hang bicycles close together by hanging one from the front wheel, the next one by the rear wheel, the next one by the front wheels. Removing the pedals helps to keep the bikes from getting scratched and also make lifting them down or up again easier as the pedals aren't there to get snagged on something such as the other bike's wheels or frame. Cheers |
#58
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 19:46:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:08:20 +0700, John B. wrote: I assume you mean pedal, not peddle, unless you buy your pedals from a Well yes, but in defense it might be noted that Samuel Clemens once said "I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing". I agree. Therefore, I rarely mis-spell my errors the same way twice. Same with my grammar errors. I do have a proper proofreader, but she has the weekend off. I have to survive with only my spelling chequer. The best bike bell I've seen mounted on the fork and the "striker" was actuated by the spokes so that when you "rang the bell" it went ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding... That's mechanically clever, but easily duplicated electronically. I guess I should add a switch to my electronic bell labeled; off, semi auto, full auto. I had a bell on my "utility bike for a while but people don't seem to pay attentiion to a meek and mild "ding ding" any more so I just say "EXCUSE ME" in a loud voice which seems to work pretty well. Exactly one of the problems I'm trying to solve. I was thinking of simply installing a forward facing parabolic reflector with a mechanical bell at the focus to reflect as much sound forward as possible. However, that would be like installing a drogue chute on my machine. Some manner of horn type loudspeaker should be sufficient. Well, if you are going to be all electronic there should be no problem to have a "tinkle, tinkle" setting, a "ding, ding" setting and a "GET OUT THE F--KING WAY!" setting. -- Cheers, John B. |
#59
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 14:37:28 +0700, John B.
wrote: Well, if you are going to be all electronic there should be no problem to have a "tinkle, tinkle" setting, a "ding, ding" setting and a "GET OUT THE F--KING WAY!" setting. All good ideas but I think some psychology might be better. I think I'll try synthesizing the sound of an iPhone ringing. That should stop anyone ahead in their tracks as they look down at their iPhone to see who's calling. Since they've now stopped moving, I can usually weave (or zip) around them. If that doesn't work, I'll try the doppler shifted sound of screeching tires. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#60
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Carbon Bikes and Quality Control
On 6/3/2017 9:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:08:20 +0700, John B. wrote: -snip bells- That's mechanically clever, but easily duplicated electronically. I guess I should add a switch to my electronic bell labeled; off, semi auto, full auto. mmmm, selector switch... -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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