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  #11  
Old August 15th 17, 06:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
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Posts: 1,900
Default nobody seen nuffin'

On 15/08/2017 1:08 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:50:58 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2017 10:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 13:04:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2017 12:05 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 22:16:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/13/2017 9:31 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:40:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3407350

A really impartial report :-)

The two people on the garbage truck say that they "didn't see the
bicycle". "But they must have, they must have",reports a bloke who
wasn't there, and who's only claim to any knowledge of the matter was
that he had eaten in the restaurant where the bicycle rider was
employed.

Assuming the cyclist had lights at night (and perhaps even if he didn't)
it's the JOB of a truck driver to see everyone using the road. "I didn't
see him" should not be treated as a valid excuse; it should be treated
as an admission of guilt.

If a truck driver is responsible to see what is going on doesn't that
apply equally to the bicycle rider? After all, they were both
operating "vehicles" on a public road.

A bike rider has a responsibility to be observant. But it's possible for
one road user to violate the laws in such a way that another very alert
road user can't avoid a crash. That's why there is normally some
investigation into who is at fault in traffic crashes.

The truck driver's "I didn't see him" statement shows he was at fault.

But Frank, I've almost hit a bicycle, several times, often enough that
it is no longer an anomaly. And I was on a bicycle, maybe 20 kph. Had
I been driving a powered vehicle at say 50 kph I would almost
certainly have hit them

The conditions we just about dawn, the other cyclist, who I guess
could be called a transportationist cyclist, was on a dingy black
bicycle, the rider was wearing dark, maybe black clothes, trousers and
a long sleeved shirt of some sort, the bike was equipped with a large
plastic "basket" on the rear carrier and a handle bar basket on the
front and riding the wrong way on the edge of a 6 lane highway. Quite
obviously on his way to work.

At that point in my usual ride I would have just turned onto the
highway and would normally be traveling 18 - 20 kph and I can assure
you that when I saw the guy had I been going twice as fast I certainly
would have hit him.

And I do look where I am going and even (strange as it may be) behind
me and on either side of me.

Your argument when someone saying "I didn't see him" is obviously at
fault is absurd.


I'm making the assumption that the cyclist hit by the garbage truck was
riding legally. I don't normally fault a motorist when, say, a wrong-way
nighttime cyclist with no lights rides into a car head-on. Or when a
cyclist blasts through a stop sign directly into the path of a car. But
in this case, the author of the article claims that the cyclist had the
right of way but was killed by what sounds like a right hook. There was
no mention of illegal bicycling.

In any case, even if the cyclist were disobeying some law, there is a
requirement to stop and not flee the scene when a person is injured in a
traffic crash. Anyone can claim "I didn't know I hit anyone." That
shouldn't be treated any more seriously than "I didn't see him." You
have a responsibility to see EVERY legal road user in time to avoid him.
You have a responsibility to stop EVERY time you're involved in a crash.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Up here if a bicyclist hits a pedestrian it's suposed to be reported as it's considered to be a vehicular/pedestrian collision. There have been cases where a bicyclist riding on the sidewalk has struck and killed a pedestrian.

Cheers


My wife was working in Ottawa in the byward area and got hit by an idiot
riding his bike on the sidewalk as she walked out the door of her
office. It's ok to say it should be reported but what are you going to
report? No license plate, no make and model. She just knew some idiot
on a bike hit her. The idiot didn't stop. The other people were
helping her up and calling the paramedics.

I'd prefer if they'd ticket the idiots riding on the sidewalk. For that
matter, they can ticket the idiots going the wrong way as well.
Ads
  #12  
Old August 15th 17, 07:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default nobody seen nuffin'

On 8/15/2017 1:26 PM, Duane wrote:
On 15/08/2017 1:08 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:50:58 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2017 10:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 13:04:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2017 12:05 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 22:16:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/13/2017 9:31 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:40:35 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3407350


A really impartial report :-)

The two people on the garbage truck say that they "didn't see the
bicycle". "But they must have, they must have",reports a bloke who
wasn't there, and who's only claim to any knowledge of the
matter was
that he had eaten in the restaurant where the bicycle rider was
employed.

Assuming the cyclist had lights at night (and perhaps even if he
didn't)
it's the JOB of a truck driver to see everyone using the road. "I
didn't
see him" should not be treated as a valid excuse; it should be
treated
as an admission of guilt.

If a truck driver is responsible to see what is going on doesn't that
apply equally to the bicycle rider? After all, they were both
operating "vehicles" on a public road.

A bike rider has a responsibility to be observant. But it's
possible for
one road user to violate the laws in such a way that another very
alert
road user can't avoid a crash. That's why there is normally some
investigation into who is at fault in traffic crashes.

The truck driver's "I didn't see him" statement shows he was at fault.

But Frank, I've almost hit a bicycle, several times, often enough that
it is no longer an anomaly. And I was on a bicycle, maybe 20 kph. Had
I been driving a powered vehicle at say 50 kph I would almost
certainly have hit them

The conditions we just about dawn, the other cyclist, who I guess
could be called a transportationist cyclist, was on a dingy black
bicycle, the rider was wearing dark, maybe black clothes, trousers and
a long sleeved shirt of some sort, the bike was equipped with a large
plastic "basket" on the rear carrier and a handle bar basket on the
front and riding the wrong way on the edge of a 6 lane highway. Quite
obviously on his way to work.

At that point in my usual ride I would have just turned onto the
highway and would normally be traveling 18 - 20 kph and I can assure
you that when I saw the guy had I been going twice as fast I certainly
would have hit him.

And I do look where I am going and even (strange as it may be) behind
me and on either side of me.

Your argument when someone saying "I didn't see him" is obviously at
fault is absurd.

I'm making the assumption that the cyclist hit by the garbage truck was
riding legally. I don't normally fault a motorist when, say, a wrong-way
nighttime cyclist with no lights rides into a car head-on. Or when a
cyclist blasts through a stop sign directly into the path of a car. But
in this case, the author of the article claims that the cyclist had the
right of way but was killed by what sounds like a right hook. There was
no mention of illegal bicycling.

In any case, even if the cyclist were disobeying some law, there is a
requirement to stop and not flee the scene when a person is injured in a
traffic crash. Anyone can claim "I didn't know I hit anyone." That
shouldn't be treated any more seriously than "I didn't see him." You
have a responsibility to see EVERY legal road user in time to avoid him.
You have a responsibility to stop EVERY time you're involved in a
crash.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Up here if a bicyclist hits a pedestrian it's suposed to be reported
as it's considered to be a vehicular/pedestrian collision. There have
been cases where a bicyclist riding on the sidewalk has struck and
killed a pedestrian.

Cheers


My wife was working in Ottawa in the byward area and got hit by an idiot
riding his bike on the sidewalk as she walked out the door of her
office. It's ok to say it should be reported but what are you going to
report? No license plate, no make and model. She just knew some idiot
on a bike hit her. The idiot didn't stop. The other people were
helping her up and calling the paramedics.

I'd prefer if they'd ticket the idiots riding on the sidewalk. For that
matter, they can ticket the idiots going the wrong way as well.


Agreed.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #13  
Old August 15th 17, 08:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,424
Default nobody seen nuffin'

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 10:26:28 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
On 15/08/2017 1:08 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:50:58 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2017 10:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 13:04:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2017 12:05 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 22:16:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/13/2017 9:31 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:40:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3407350

A really impartial report :-)

The two people on the garbage truck say that they "didn't see the
bicycle". "But they must have, they must have",reports a bloke who
wasn't there, and who's only claim to any knowledge of the matter was
that he had eaten in the restaurant where the bicycle rider was
employed.

Assuming the cyclist had lights at night (and perhaps even if he didn't)
it's the JOB of a truck driver to see everyone using the road. "I didn't
see him" should not be treated as a valid excuse; it should be treated
as an admission of guilt.

If a truck driver is responsible to see what is going on doesn't that
apply equally to the bicycle rider? After all, they were both
operating "vehicles" on a public road.

A bike rider has a responsibility to be observant. But it's possible for
one road user to violate the laws in such a way that another very alert
road user can't avoid a crash. That's why there is normally some
investigation into who is at fault in traffic crashes.

The truck driver's "I didn't see him" statement shows he was at fault.

  #14  
Old August 15th 17, 09:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default nobody seen nuffin'

On 8/15/2017 3:12 PM, Doug Landau wrote:

Changing the subject,
What do you think about the ticket I got in my van - from a ranger - for not coming to a complete stop at the stop sign at the exit of the state OHV park I went to on Sunday? A few moments before, I was their guest, for chrissake! Having a great time at a public park created for that very purpose. And I leave all reset and re-aligned with the cosmos, and I get one foot out the door and BOOM! Pounced upon by my host who was so warm and welcoming.


Were you on a bike or using a motor vehicle? (Not that it would affect
my answer.)

In general, I think demanding an absolutely perfect zero speed at a stop
sign is silly. In fact, I think most stop signs should at least
theoretically be yield signs. That's in an ideal world where people
actually operate their vehicles responsibly.

As it is, we've got a near universal "wink, wink" system where very few
(probably no more than 25%) of people do a total complete stop when the
way is obviously clear. Occasionally someone causes a police crackdown,
with no real benefit except a bit of ticket revenue.

Perhaps I'm bitter. I got my first ticket since 1973 recently, in
exactly that way. It was a four way stop, I was not hurrying, the roads
were totally empty, I probably moved no more than 1 mph, but I was
pulled over. The young cop apologized profusely, but said the safety
director had given a direct order that at that intersection he wanted
cops to ticket anyone whose wheels did not come to an absolute complete,
perfect stop. The cop said he'd prefer to give me a warning, but didn't
dare to.

One of my cop friends confirmed that that towns cops were really
disgusted at the order by their micromanager boss. But fighting the
ticket would be futile.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #15  
Old August 16th 17, 12:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,424
Default nobody seen nuffin'

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 1:25:43 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2017 3:12 PM, Doug Landau wrote:

Changing the subject,
What do you think about the ticket I got in my van - from a ranger - for not coming to a complete stop at the stop sign at the exit of the state OHV park I went to on Sunday? A few moments before, I was their guest, for chrissake! Having a great time at a public park created for that very purpose. And I leave all reset and re-aligned with the cosmos, and I get one foot out the door and BOOM! Pounced upon by my host who was so warm and welcoming.


Were you on a bike or using a motor vehicle? (Not that it would affect
my answer.)

In general, I think demanding an absolutely perfect zero speed at a stop
sign is silly. In fact, I think most stop signs should at least
theoretically be yield signs. That's in an ideal world where people
actually operate their vehicles responsibly.

As it is, we've got a near universal "wink, wink" system where very few
(probably no more than 25%) of people do a total complete stop when the
way is obviously clear. Occasionally someone causes a police crackdown,
with no real benefit except a bit of ticket revenue.

Perhaps I'm bitter. I got my first ticket since 1973 recently, in
exactly that way. It was a four way stop, I was not hurrying, the roads
were totally empty, I probably moved no more than 1 mph, but I was
pulled over. The young cop apologized profusely, but said the safety
director had given a direct order that at that intersection he wanted
cops to ticket anyone whose wheels did not come to an absolute complete,
perfect stop. The cop said he'd prefer to give me a warning, but didn't
dare to.

One of my cop friends confirmed that that towns cops were really
disgusted at the order by their micromanager boss. But fighting the
ticket would be futile.


I was in a motor vehicle. I can;t deny that I rolled thru a stop sign, and right in front of a cop, even. Well a ranger. But it never even occurred to me that the ranger was in her truck watching me. I saw the ranger truck way over there and figured he or she was over there fixin fences or doin something like that. Stupid as that may sound whats trippin me is having a good time as a guest enjoying my hosts hospitality - and then getting pounced on by that same hose the minute I step out the front door. WTF.

  #16  
Old August 16th 17, 03:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default nobody seen nuffin'

On 8/15/2017 7:31 PM, Doug Landau wrote:


I was in a motor vehicle. I can;t deny that I rolled thru a stop sign, and right in front of a cop, even. Well a ranger. But it never even occurred to me that the ranger was in her truck watching me. I saw the ranger truck way over there and figured he or she was over there fixin fences or doin something like that. Stupid as that may sound whats trippin me is having a good time as a guest enjoying my hosts hospitality - and then getting pounced on by that same hose the minute I step out the front door. WTF.


FWIW: After discussions here and elsewhere about the same issue
regarding bikes, there was one time I was commuting to work, passing
through one of the two four-way stop signs. I had a police car right on
my tail.

As a test, I treated that stop sign as I always did, which was stand up,
feet on the pedals, and do an almost track stand until it was my turn to
go. I never did (technically) stop, although I was at least briefly
under 2 mph. The cop apparently thought that was fine.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old August 17th 17, 04:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default nobody seen nuffin'

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 8/15/2017 7:31 PM, Doug Landau wrote:


I was in a motor vehicle. I can;t deny that I rolled thru a stop
sign, and right in front of a cop, even. Well a ranger. But it
never even occurred to me that the ranger was in her truck watching
me. I saw the ranger truck way over there and figured he or she was
over there fixin fences or doin something like that. Stupid as that
may sound whats trippin me is having a good time as a guest enjoying
my hosts hospitality - and then getting pounced on by that same hose
the minute I step out the front door. WTF.


FWIW: After discussions here and elsewhere about the same issue
regarding bikes, there was one time I was commuting to work, passing
through one of the two four-way stop signs. I had a police car right
on my tail.

As a test, I treated that stop sign as I always did, which was stand
up, feet on the pedals, and do an almost track stand until it was my
turn to go. I never did (technically) stop, although I was at least
briefly under 2 mph. The cop apparently thought that was fine.


You can't conclude that at all. The cop either thought it was fine, or
just couldn't be arsed to give you a ticket.

Last year some time I was waiting patiently to turn right on green, on
my bike, at an intersection marked "no right turn on red". There was a
cop at the front of one of the other streets in the intersection.
Several drivers behind me began to honk, since most drivers are
accustomed to ignoring the turn restriction.

I looked at the cop, looked back at the honkers, said "**** it", and
turned right. No one got a ticket, or even a hard look. That does not
mean that the very same cop might not give out a hundred tickets at the
very same intersection, on some other day.

--
  #18  
Old August 19th 17, 05:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default nobody seen nuffin'

cyclist, retarded, was screwing with a garbage truck at 1AM

 




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