Need advice on bottom bracket repair

On 1/9/2017 4:15 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side,
but the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a
quarter turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further.
It has no flats for a wrench instead having holes for
turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of
force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice
for me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm
not able to get things off with the addition of penetrating
oil and time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

If you have an aluminum frame and BB you cannot leave them
outside in the winter and should not ride through water deep
enough to threaten the integrity of the coupling.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.


And on a Rodriguez, it is indeed.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side,
but the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a
quarter turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further.
It has no flats for a wrench instead having holes for
turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of
force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice
for me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm
not able to get things off with the addition of penetrating
oil and time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

If you have an aluminum frame and BB you cannot leave them
outside in the winter and should not ride through water deep
enough to threaten the integrity of the coupling.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

Uh, Ted, what does the lock ring and the fixed cup have stamped on them? Unless your Tandem is Italian the bottom bracket is probably either French of most probably English. That means that the adjustable side (left ride looking forward) will be threaded BACKWARDS. And it will unwind in a clockwise direction.

That is one of the most common errors of people taking bottom brackets out for the first half dozen times.


Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel
Rodriguez and in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the
chain side (right side when riding) cup is reverse thread.
The non-drive side (clean side, adjustable side, left side)
unscrews like a jar lid.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:27:01 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side,
but the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a
quarter turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further.
It has no flats for a wrench instead having holes for
turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of
force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice
for me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm
not able to get things off with the addition of penetrating
oil and time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

If you have an aluminum frame and BB you cannot leave them
outside in the winter and should not ride through water deep
enough to threaten the integrity of the coupling.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

Uh, Ted, what does the lock ring and the fixed cup have stamped on them? Unless your Tandem is Italian the bottom bracket is probably either French of most probably English. That means that the adjustable side (left ride looking forward) will be threaded BACKWARDS. And it will unwind in a clockwise direction.

That is one of the most common errors of people taking bottom brackets out for the first half dozen times.

Since I'm not familiar with Tandems anymore perhaps I should ask some questions: Going back I note that your Tandem is a Rodriguez. So it definitely does have an English bottom bracket.

On what SIDE of the bike is the adjustable cup?

On 1/9/2017 4:40 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:27:01 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side,
but the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a
quarter turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further.
It has no flats for a wrench instead having holes for
turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of
force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice
for me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm
not able to get things off with the addition of penetrating
oil and time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

If you have an aluminum frame and BB you cannot leave them
outside in the winter and should not ride through water deep
enough to threaten the integrity of the coupling.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

Uh, Ted, what does the lock ring and the fixed cup have stamped on them? Unless your Tandem is Italian the bottom bracket is probably either French of most probably English. That means that the adjustable side (left ride looking forward) will be threaded BACKWARDS. And it will unwind in a clockwise direction.

That is one of the most common errors of people taking bottom brackets out for the first half dozen times.

Since I'm not familiar with Tandems anymore perhaps I should ask some questions: Going back I note that your Tandem is a Rodriguez. So it definitely does have an English bottom bracket.

On what SIDE of the bike is the adjustable cup?


next to the stoker's left foot.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:40:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side,
but the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a
quarter turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further.
It has no flats for a wrench instead having holes for
turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of
force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice
for me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm
not able to get things off with the addition of penetrating
oil and time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

If you have an aluminum frame and BB you cannot leave them
outside in the winter and should not ride through water deep
enough to threaten the integrity of the coupling.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

Uh, Ted, what does the lock ring and the fixed cup have stamped on them? Unless your Tandem is Italian the bottom bracket is probably either French of most probably English. That means that the adjustable side (left ride looking forward) will be threaded BACKWARDS. And it will unwind in a clockwise direction.

That is one of the most common errors of people taking bottom brackets out for the first half dozen times.


Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel
Rodriguez and in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the
chain side (right side when riding) cup is reverse thread.
The non-drive side (clean side, adjustable side, left side)
unscrews like a jar lid.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Now I'm getting confused. I have a Campy bottom bracket sitting in front of me and the fixed side has standard threads.

Is the stoker BB fit in backwards (the reverse direction) from a standard BB?

On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:42:18 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:40 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:27:01 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side,
but the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a
quarter turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further.
It has no flats for a wrench instead having holes for
turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of
force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice
for me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm
not able to get things off with the addition of penetrating
oil and time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

If you have an aluminum frame and BB you cannot leave them
outside in the winter and should not ride through water deep
enough to threaten the integrity of the coupling.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

Uh, Ted, what does the lock ring and the fixed cup have stamped on them? Unless your Tandem is Italian the bottom bracket is probably either French of most probably English. That means that the adjustable side (left ride looking forward) will be threaded BACKWARDS. And it will unwind in a clockwise direction.

That is one of the most common errors of people taking bottom brackets out for the first half dozen times.

Since I'm not familiar with Tandems anymore perhaps I should ask some questions: Going back I note that your Tandem is a Rodriguez. So it definitely does have an English bottom bracket.

On what SIDE of the bike is the adjustable cup?


next to the stoker's left foot.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

****, foiled again - the fixed side is opposite. Glasses do help after all.

On 1/9/2017 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:40:36 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side,
but the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a
quarter turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further.
It has no flats for a wrench instead having holes for
turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of
force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice
for me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm
not able to get things off with the addition of penetrating
oil and time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

If you have an aluminum frame and BB you cannot leave them
outside in the winter and should not ride through water deep
enough to threaten the integrity of the coupling.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

Uh, Ted, what does the lock ring and the fixed cup have stamped on them? Unless your Tandem is Italian the bottom bracket is probably either French of most probably English. That means that the adjustable side (left ride looking forward) will be threaded BACKWARDS. And it will unwind in a clockwise direction.

That is one of the most common errors of people taking bottom brackets out for the first half dozen times.


Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel
Rodriguez and in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the
chain side (right side when riding) cup is reverse thread.
The non-drive side (clean side, adjustable side, left side)
unscrews like a jar lid.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Now I'm getting confused. I have a Campy bottom bracket sitting in front of me and the fixed side has standard threads.

Is the stoker BB fit in backwards (the reverse direction) from a standard BB?


Look at your Campagnolo BB again.
If it's marked 1.370" x 24t then the chain side is reverse
thread.

If your BB is 36x24 or m35x1 then both sides are standard
thread direction.

(low frequency formats like Swiss and ChaterLea omitted)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 10:47:48 AM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:02:27 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 1:14:21 PM UTC-8,
Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side,
but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a
quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a
pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle expensive
pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily
deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm
not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil
and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and give it
a
few
strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at a
time
that
way.

Once I had to shift a seized in pedal shaft, after snapping a
couple
of
spanners - I welded on the biggest nut I had a spanner for.
Quenching
the
hot steel with penetrating oil did slightly more than just
spraying
it
on
cold. The same approach would probably work with a BB cup.

It is extremely bad practice to hammer a pin spanner.

Who said anything about hammering a pin spanner?!!!

If you can't be bothered reading a post - don't bother answering it
either.

I might suggest "At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot
and
give it a few strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out
bit
at
a time that way." sounds an awful lot like hammering on a pin
spanner.
Are
you supposing we're discussing removing pedals from a crank?

Sorry - I forgot you were that thick.

I'll draw pictures next time.

So you meant something other than what you wrote. Well that makes
sense.

Its so simple it just never occurred to me that anyone could **** it up -
but somehow you always seem to manage.

Then perhaps you can explain how you didn't say to hit it with a hammer
after writing for everyone to see you suggest hitting the pin spanner with
a hammer? Did you mean that unless you vocalize it, that it doesn't count?

I didn't say hit the pin spanner with a hammer - you did.

And I would have understood you better if you spoke in English instead of Benderthe.evilrobot doubletalk. Tell me who hits their paint job with a hammer?

On 1/9/2017 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 10:47:48 AM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:02:27 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 1:14:21 PM UTC-8,
Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

-snip snip-
Tell me who hits their paint job with a hammer?


The ex-girlfriend, usually.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 4:40:05 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 5:07 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 10:47:48 AM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:02:27 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 1:14:21 PM UTC-8,
Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

-snip snip-
Tell me who hits their paint job with a hammer?


The ex-girlfriend, usually.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Either it's not that common, or it's under-reported:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...riend+keyed%22