Tubus Cosmo Rack = Expensive Crap for Posers

On 6/5/2011 4:58 AM, DougC wrote:
On 6/4/2011 4:29 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 4-6-2011 22:00, DougC schreef:
On 6/3/2011 5:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:
The good quality ali rack which came on my Utopia Kranich sacrificed
itself to protect my bike when it was twice attacked by a carelessly
driven Range Rover. Once I managed to straighten it but the second
time it was crippled forever.

.....

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts when
they should be using 6mm or more.


M3? Look again. Tubus use M5 bolts. Well my racks do.


Lou

I don't know what the exact size is--other than if they're the same size
as the fender bolts, the rack bolts are too ****ing small. And they
should be using bolts 2X as thick.

There's no reason for larger bolts. Not only would larger bolts not
provide any additional strength to the load, they would require larger
struts on the rack and larger braze-ons on the frame.

The exact size is M5, 5mm diameter, so now you do know the exact size.

Theoretically, the fender bolts are too large for the weight they have
to carry, but they use M5 for fenders for several other reasons,
including a larger head diameter for the fender support strut holes, to
minimize the number of different diameter bolts, to allow racks or
fenders to use the same threaded holes by the rear dropouts, and to
simplify manufacturing by not have so many different size taps.

On 6/3/2011 3:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:

I cannot recommend the Cosmo. It is a poseur's rack, of little
practical use. The makers charge a huge amount of money for it and
don't even give you all the necessary fitting parts. It would probably
be a good rack if it were bigger, in which case the clumsy angling of
the lower rails might not matter, and if it came with enough fitting
components and spring washers to keep it on the bike. As it is sold, I
am decidedly unimpressed.

"They" or "someone" should make the "perfect rack":

-Stainless Steel or Cro-Mo Steel

-Three support struts.

-Rear light mount _under_ the rack, not sticking out behind it as on the
Bruce Gordon or Thorn Expedition, or Nitto Big Back Rack.

-Separate mounting rail for panniers so a rack top bag can be easily
installed or removed without removing the panniers first.

-Dogleg strut that keeps the pannier from flopping into the rear wheel.
-Level dogleg strut so panniers can be positioned anywhere on the rack
and still have a level place to hook onto.

-Bumps in the dogleg strut or a wavy dogleg strut so pannier hooks don't
slide back and forth.

-36-42 cm long (sometimes shorter is okay, as long as the panniers can
be positioned all the way to the rear and still have something to hook
onto, straight down, on the bottom, i.e. the Surly Nice Rack is 31 cm).

-Minimum width of 12 cm rail to rail.

-Adustable height mounting.

-Highly adjustable seat stay mounting (all three axises can be adjusted,
width, length, angle).

-Comes with long seat stay struts/brackets.

Of course there is no such rack on the market. Today, I would probably
take the chance with aluminum and get the Massload CL-476. Personally
I've only had one aluminum rear rack ever break and it was a cheap
Bor-Yueh rack from Nashbar. I've seen aluminum racks come apart at the
weld where the two or three struts come together down by the dropout,
due to metal fatigue causes by continuous vibration, but if you look at
the Massload CL-476, they seem to have found a good solution to this
problem, as you can see in the photo at
http://gregandsue.com/util/bike/LandRider_Rack-1.jpg where the struts
go into another piece of aluminum with sleeves.

The Rivendell/Nitto "Big Back Rack" looks pretty good, though it misses
a few of the design goals
http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/big-back-rack-nitto/20-022

Per SMS:
to
minimize the number of different diameter bolts,

Can't recall the make/model, but a few years ago the local
Performance Bicycle shop had an FS that could be totally
disassembled/reassembled using only a 5-mil hex key - cranks,
IRRC, and all.

I guess it went the way of too many good ideas, but it sure
appealed to me.

I get crazy when I see 4 and 5mm hex bolts intermixed when 5
would do it across the board.
--
PeteCresswell

On Jun 5, 1:48 am, Coolmaine wrote:
snip

I want a stainless rack. Do you have any further off the cuff
suggestions?


make one

On 6/5/2011 8:22 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 5-6-2011 13:58, DougC schreef:
On 6/4/2011 4:29 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 4-6-2011 22:00, DougC schreef:
On 6/3/2011 5:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:
The good quality ali rack which came on my Utopia Kranich sacrificed
itself to protect my bike when it was twice attacked by a carelessly
driven Range Rover. Once I managed to straighten it but the second
time it was crippled forever.

.....

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts when
they should be using 6mm or more.


M3? Look again. Tubus use M5 bolts. Well my racks do.


Lou

I don't know what the exact size is--other than if they're the same size
as the fender bolts, the rack bolts are too ****ing small. And they
should be using bolts 2X as thick.

M5 is more then adequate. Racks break almost exclusively along the welds.

Lou

I've never had that happen.

Mostly what I remember was the lower bolts repeatedly coming loose until
the threads in the frame hole were stripped, and then that bike had no
more rack since if you got a longer bolt and tried to put a nut on the
backside, the nut would block the chain from being used on the smallest
cog.

The only bike I have now has a rack I made myself. Instead of using the
frame holes for mounting, it has four-bolt clamps that grab the frame
tube. The bolts used are 5/16", which is really only about 8.5mm--but
they are attached with nylon-locking nuts. Despite the lack of
thread-locking compound and many times of carrying 20-30+ lb loads since
1996, none of them have ever come loose even once.

Plus due to the way the bike is made, if I have to grab it from near the
rear then the rack is the only thing to grab and lift it by. Still, the
rack stays mounted solidly.

I doubt I'd pay for any store-bought rack now. They look nicer and weigh
less but are far too flimsy to be useful. They might work if one had to
carry around a lot of packages of styrofoam coffee cups, but they're not
really good for anything much heavier.

On 6/5/2011 11:24 AM, SMS wrote:
On 6/3/2011 3:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:

I cannot recommend the Cosmo. It is a poseur's rack, of little
practical use. The makers charge a huge amount of money for it and
don't even give you all the necessary fitting parts. It would probably
be a good rack if it were bigger, in which case the clumsy angling of
the lower rails might not matter, and if it came with enough fitting
components and spring washers to keep it on the bike. As it is sold, I
am decidedly unimpressed.

"They" or "someone" should make the "perfect rack":
[...]

The perfect solution is tossing all your stuff behind the seat of your
velomobile.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 06/05/2011 02:39 PM, DougC wrote:
On 6/5/2011 8:22 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 5-6-2011 13:58, DougC schreef:
On 6/4/2011 4:29 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 4-6-2011 22:00, DougC schreef:
On 6/3/2011 5:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:
The good quality ali rack which came on my Utopia Kranich sacrificed
itself to protect my bike when it was twice attacked by a carelessly
driven Range Rover. Once I managed to straighten it but the second
time it was crippled forever.

.....

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts when
they should be using 6mm or more.


M3? Look again. Tubus use M5 bolts. Well my racks do.


Lou

I don't know what the exact size is--other than if they're the same size
as the fender bolts, the rack bolts are too ****ing small. And they
should be using bolts 2X as thick.

M5 is more then adequate. Racks break almost exclusively along the welds.

Lou

I've never had that happen.

Mostly what I remember was the lower bolts repeatedly coming loose until
the threads in the frame hole were stripped, and then that bike had no
more rack since if you got a longer bolt and tried to put a nut on the
backside, the nut would block the chain from being used on the smallest
cog.

Had the same thing happen on my Cannondale, I Helicoiled the hole which
was expensive (because I bought a whole metric Helicoil set, cause I'm a
tool whore) but it's been fine ever since. Of course I hardly ride it
since I got my Trek 620... Was your bike an aluminum frame as well, by
chance?

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Op 5-6-2011 20:43, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° schreef:
On 6/5/2011 11:24 AM, SMS wrote:
On 6/3/2011 3:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:

I cannot recommend the Cosmo. It is a poseur's rack, of little
practical use. The makers charge a huge amount of money for it and
don't even give you all the necessary fitting parts. It would probably
be a good rack if it were bigger, in which case the clumsy angling of
the lower rails might not matter, and if it came with enough fitting
components and spring washers to keep it on the bike. As it is sold, I
am decidedly unimpressed.

"They" or "someone" should make the "perfect rack":
[...]

The perfect solution is tossing all your stuff behind the seat of your
velomobile.



Bugger off with your velomobile. Stop talking about it and ride the
bloody (green) thing. Geezz.
Using a car to move stuff from A to B is a perfect solution.

Lou

On 6/5/2011 1:43 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 6/5/2011 11:24 AM, SMS wrote:
On 6/3/2011 3:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:

I cannot recommend the Cosmo. It is a poseur's rack, of little
practical use. The makers charge a huge amount of money for it and
don't even give you all the necessary fitting parts. It would probably
be a good rack if it were bigger, in which case the clumsy angling of
the lower rails might not matter, and if it came with enough fitting
components and spring washers to keep it on the bike. As it is sold, I
am decidedly unimpressed.

"They" or "someone" should make the "perfect rack":
[...]

The perfect solution is tossing all your stuff behind the seat of your
velomobile.


Or get a delta trike with a big rear basket. Less $$$.

On 6/5/2011 1:45 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/05/2011 02:39 PM, DougC wrote:
On 6/5/2011 8:22 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 5-6-2011 13:58, DougC schreef:
On 6/4/2011 4:29 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 4-6-2011 22:00, DougC schreef:
On 6/3/2011 5:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:
The good quality ali rack which came on my Utopia Kranich sacrificed
itself to protect my bike when it was twice attacked by a carelessly
driven Range Rover. Once I managed to straighten it but the second
time it was crippled forever.

.....

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts
when
they should be using 6mm or more.


M3? Look again. Tubus use M5 bolts. Well my racks do.


Lou

I don't know what the exact size is--other than if they're the same
size
as the fender bolts, the rack bolts are too ****ing small. And they
should be using bolts 2X as thick.

M5 is more then adequate. Racks break almost exclusively along the
welds.

Lou

I've never had that happen.

Mostly what I remember was the lower bolts repeatedly coming loose until
the threads in the frame hole were stripped, and then that bike had no
more rack since if you got a longer bolt and tried to put a nut on the
backside, the nut would block the chain from being used on the smallest
cog.

Had the same thing happen on my Cannondale, I Helicoiled the hole which
was expensive (because I bought a whole metric Helicoil set, cause I'm a
tool whore) but it's been fine ever since. Of course I hardly ride it
since I got my Trek 620... Was your bike an aluminum frame as well, by
chance?

nate



The last couple were. The last one I owned was around 11 years ago though.