"Riding roughshod -- Chainsaw-toting trail bike high-flyers cutting valley into mucky ribbons"

Sound familiar? It IS. These are typical mountain bikers in action....

Mike


http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/200...ews_story.php:

"The city looks the other way while trail bike enthusiasts cut down
mature trees to construct daredevil jumps.
Photo By Darren Stehr"


Riding roughshod


Chainsaw-toting trail bike high-flyers cutting valley into mucky
ribbons

By KYLA DIXON-MUIR

At 52 hectares, about half the size of High Park, Crothers' Woods, a
small Carolinian Forest at the foot of the Leaside Bridge, is an
ecological rarity in these parts.

Signage erected at Beechwood Wetlands nearby warns walkers and birders
to tread softly. "Areas like the Lower Don Valley that have been
heavily disturbed by human activity are particularly susceptible to
the effects of invasive non-native species."

But despite being declared an ecologically sensitive area more than a
decade ago, Crothers is being sliced into mucky ribbons by trail bike
enthusiasts who think nothing of carting in chainsaws and cutting down
mature trees to build ramps for their daredevil jumps.

Illegally constructed stunts and jumps on the steep forest hillsides
of Crothers were torn down a few years ago, but the degradation,
including the excavation of huge ditches for jumps in the flats
between Crothers and Beechwood Wetlands, has continued at a breakneck
pace.

Large turnouts of 30-something male riders, a fixture at public
consultations in recent years, show little concern for preserving this
rare forest we're lucky to have this far north.

The Planning Partnership (TPP), the consulting group coordinating and
authoring a new management plan for the area, seems intent on
maintaining a system of bike trails through Crothers.

As if to justify the cyclists' presence, one TPP member observed at a
November 2006 consultation that "volunteer user groups [read the
pro-off-road International Mountain Bicycling Association, or IMBA]
have removed over 3 tons of garbage from the valley in recent years."

Indeed, TPP has received extensive input from IMBA.

Durham region IMBA rep Jason Murray says the group wants to "keep the
riding experience the same – a good and fun experience." At the same
time, he admits that "overuse is what has caused the spaghetti effect"
on muddy trails.

Friends of the Don East points out that mountain biking is banned in
other Toronto ravines. But planners, instead of protecting the area
outright, are hell-bent on making the trails multi-use. Urban forestry
supervisor Garth Armour was the only city staffer at the recent public
consultation to say that "jumping and skills facilities should be
elsewhere."

"A continuity of environment," says Gavin Miller of the Toronto and
Region Conservation Authority, "and of our Natural Heritage Strategy
are the overall TRCA thrust."

But there's little talk of sustaining the unique wildflower meadows,
reserving areas for wildlife or looking at the Don Valley as a whole
corridor system.

Miller points out that "TPP's [draft] plan results in a net reduction
in [bike] trail kilometres."

Crothers' interior is intersected by 10 kilometres of natural surface
trails, densely in its steepest third. The consultants propose to
close only 1.8 kilometres of duplicate trails on these
highest-sensitivity slopes.

Sean Wheldrake, bicycle promotions coordinator, says city cycling
ambassadors, who are paid city staff, will be dispatched to Crothers
to reduce conflict and educate trail users.

But the ambassadors, while versed in trail etiquette, are not trained
in biota (flora and fauna) recognition, wildlife protection or
restoration.

Friends of the Don East has produced a paper noting that mountain
biking is banned in Glendon Forest and Rouge Park and confined to
trails by fencing in Sherwood Park.

"Ecological integrity must be the guiding principle of any strategy,"
says the Friends report. "Without this, the forest will not survive."

Stephen Smith, a forester and certified arborist, argues that "there
are plenty of areas already ravaged in the city, plenty of brown lands
that could easily be converted to allow stunt riders.

"Neither dog walkers nor bikers are a passive use, and it only takes a
few to ruin it for the rest."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman wrote:
Sound familiar? It IS. These are typical mountain bikers in action....

Mike


http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/200...ews_story.php:

"The city looks the other way while trail bike enthusiasts cut down
mature trees to construct daredevil jumps.
Photo By Darren Stehr"


Riding roughshod


Chainsaw-toting trail bike high-flyers cutting valley into mucky
ribbons

By KYLA DIXON-MUIR

At 52 hectares, about half the size of High Park, Crothers' Woods, a
small Carolinian Forest at the foot of the Leaside Bridge, is an
ecological rarity in these parts.

Signage erected at Beechwood Wetlands nearby warns walkers and birders
to tread softly. "Areas like the Lower Don Valley that have been
heavily disturbed by human activity are particularly susceptible to
the effects of invasive non-native species."

But despite being declared an ecologically sensitive area more than a
decade ago, Crothers is being sliced into mucky ribbons by trail bike
enthusiasts who think nothing of carting in chainsaws and cutting down
mature trees to build ramps for their daredevil jumps.

Illegally constructed stunts and jumps on the steep forest hillsides
of Crothers were torn down a few years ago, but the degradation,
including the excavation of huge ditches for jumps in the flats
between Crothers and Beechwood Wetlands, has continued at a breakneck
pace.

Large turnouts of 30-something male riders, a fixture at public
consultations in recent years, show little concern for preserving this
rare forest we're lucky to have this far north.

The Planning Partnership (TPP), the consulting group coordinating and
authoring a new management plan for the area, seems intent on
maintaining a system of bike trails through Crothers.

As if to justify the cyclists' presence, one TPP member observed at a
November 2006 consultation that "volunteer user groups [read the
pro-off-road International Mountain Bicycling Association, or IMBA]
have removed over 3 tons of garbage from the valley in recent years."

Indeed, TPP has received extensive input from IMBA.

Durham region IMBA rep Jason Murray says the group wants to "keep the
riding experience the same – a good and fun experience." At the same
time, he admits that "overuse is what has caused the spaghetti effect"
on muddy trails.

Friends of the Don East points out that mountain biking is banned in
other Toronto ravines. But planners, instead of protecting the area
outright, are hell-bent on making the trails multi-use. Urban forestry
supervisor Garth Armour was the only city staffer at the recent public
consultation to say that "jumping and skills facilities should be
elsewhere."

"A continuity of environment," says Gavin Miller of the Toronto and
Region Conservation Authority, "and of our Natural Heritage Strategy
are the overall TRCA thrust."

But there's little talk of sustaining the unique wildflower meadows,
reserving areas for wildlife or looking at the Don Valley as a whole
corridor system.

Miller points out that "TPP's [draft] plan results in a net reduction
in [bike] trail kilometres."

Crothers' interior is intersected by 10 kilometres of natural surface
trails, densely in its steepest third. The consultants propose to
close only 1.8 kilometres of duplicate trails on these
highest-sensitivity slopes.

Sean Wheldrake, bicycle promotions coordinator, says city cycling
ambassadors, who are paid city staff, will be dispatched to Crothers
to reduce conflict and educate trail users.

But the ambassadors, while versed in trail etiquette, are not trained
in biota (flora and fauna) recognition, wildlife protection or
restoration.

Friends of the Don East has produced a paper noting that mountain
biking is banned in Glendon Forest and Rouge Park and confined to
trails by fencing in Sherwood Park.

"Ecological integrity must be the guiding principle of any strategy,"
says the Friends report. "Without this, the forest will not survive."

Stephen Smith, a forester and certified arborist, argues that "there
are plenty of areas already ravaged in the city, plenty of brown lands
that could easily be converted to allow stunt riders.

"Neither dog walkers nor bikers are a passive use, and it only takes a
few to ruin it for the rest."

I agree these kinds of bikers should be prosecuted for destruction of
property, public or private. If they want to do stunts they should find
a few acres of land that they can bulldoze into shape for their own use
on private property. I ride my bike past a farm where the boys have used
the equipment to make a motocross and cyclo-cross set of ramps. They
have it right. My mountain biking is just for trail exploration and I
think that is all that should be allowed on public property.
Bill Baka

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
Sound familiar? It IS. These are typical mountain bikers in action....

Mike


http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/200...ews_story.php:

"The city looks the other way while trail bike enthusiasts cut down
mature trees to construct daredevil jumps.
Photo By Darren Stehr"


Riding roughshod


Chainsaw-toting trail bike high-flyers cutting valley into mucky
ribbons

By KYLA DIXON-MUIR

At 52 hectares, about half the size of High Park, Crothers' Woods, a
small Carolinian Forest at the foot of the Leaside Bridge, is an
ecological rarity in these parts.

Signage erected at Beechwood Wetlands nearby warns walkers and birders
to tread softly. "Areas like the Lower Don Valley that have been
heavily disturbed by human activity are particularly susceptible to
the effects of invasive non-native species."

But despite being declared an ecologically sensitive area more than a
decade ago, Crothers is being sliced into mucky ribbons by trail bike
enthusiasts who think nothing of carting in chainsaws and cutting down
mature trees to build ramps for their daredevil jumps.

Illegally constructed stunts and jumps on the steep forest hillsides
of Crothers were torn down a few years ago, but the degradation,
including the excavation of huge ditches for jumps in the flats
between Crothers and Beechwood Wetlands, has continued at a breakneck
pace.

Large turnouts of 30-something male riders, a fixture at public
consultations in recent years, show little concern for preserving this
rare forest we're lucky to have this far north.

snip
I know how these guys get started. I live in the middle of a 100 year old
city, but had a vacant lot next door. One year, every day after school, a
hoard of shovel toting wheelie bikers would show up in the vacant lot and
build dirt jumps. When neighbors complained, they would tell us to f&%k
off. When the owner showed up, they would run. He finally called the cops,
but the way the lot was situated, there were escape routes to other streets,
and most were not caught. The ones caught were warned, the parents were
called, and the kids were back the next day. When I confronted one of them,
he asked why it mattered, because the property was vacant. He also said
that they didn't have any other choice, as there were so few vacant lots
available.

Most of these kids have now moved on to off road motorcycles in the desert.
In short, they were raised by parents who also had no respect for the
concept of private property, and view public property as open to anything.
Happily, the next door lot was graded smooth long enough for a house to be
built.

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:46:48 GMT, Bill wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
Sound familiar? It IS. These are typical mountain bikers in action....

Mike


http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/200...ews_story.php:

"The city looks the other way while trail bike enthusiasts cut down
mature trees to construct daredevil jumps.
Photo By Darren Stehr"


Riding roughshod


Chainsaw-toting trail bike high-flyers cutting valley into mucky
ribbons

By KYLA DIXON-MUIR

At 52 hectares, about half the size of High Park, Crothers' Woods, a
small Carolinian Forest at the foot of the Leaside Bridge, is an
ecological rarity in these parts.

Signage erected at Beechwood Wetlands nearby warns walkers and birders
to tread softly. "Areas like the Lower Don Valley that have been
heavily disturbed by human activity are particularly susceptible to
the effects of invasive non-native species."

But despite being declared an ecologically sensitive area more than a
decade ago, Crothers is being sliced into mucky ribbons by trail bike
enthusiasts who think nothing of carting in chainsaws and cutting down
mature trees to build ramps for their daredevil jumps.

Illegally constructed stunts and jumps on the steep forest hillsides
of Crothers were torn down a few years ago, but the degradation,
including the excavation of huge ditches for jumps in the flats
between Crothers and Beechwood Wetlands, has continued at a breakneck
pace.

Large turnouts of 30-something male riders, a fixture at public
consultations in recent years, show little concern for preserving this
rare forest we're lucky to have this far north.

The Planning Partnership (TPP), the consulting group coordinating and
authoring a new management plan for the area, seems intent on
maintaining a system of bike trails through Crothers.

As if to justify the cyclists' presence, one TPP member observed at a
November 2006 consultation that "volunteer user groups [read the
pro-off-road International Mountain Bicycling Association, or IMBA]
have removed over 3 tons of garbage from the valley in recent years."

Indeed, TPP has received extensive input from IMBA.

Durham region IMBA rep Jason Murray says the group wants to "keep the
riding experience the same – a good and fun experience." At the same
time, he admits that "overuse is what has caused the spaghetti effect"
on muddy trails.

Friends of the Don East points out that mountain biking is banned in
other Toronto ravines. But planners, instead of protecting the area
outright, are hell-bent on making the trails multi-use. Urban forestry
supervisor Garth Armour was the only city staffer at the recent public
consultation to say that "jumping and skills facilities should be
elsewhere."

"A continuity of environment," says Gavin Miller of the Toronto and
Region Conservation Authority, "and of our Natural Heritage Strategy
are the overall TRCA thrust."

But there's little talk of sustaining the unique wildflower meadows,
reserving areas for wildlife or looking at the Don Valley as a whole
corridor system.

Miller points out that "TPP's [draft] plan results in a net reduction
in [bike] trail kilometres."

Crothers' interior is intersected by 10 kilometres of natural surface
trails, densely in its steepest third. The consultants propose to
close only 1.8 kilometres of duplicate trails on these
highest-sensitivity slopes.

Sean Wheldrake, bicycle promotions coordinator, says city cycling
ambassadors, who are paid city staff, will be dispatched to Crothers
to reduce conflict and educate trail users.

But the ambassadors, while versed in trail etiquette, are not trained
in biota (flora and fauna) recognition, wildlife protection or
restoration.

Friends of the Don East has produced a paper noting that mountain
biking is banned in Glendon Forest and Rouge Park and confined to
trails by fencing in Sherwood Park.

"Ecological integrity must be the guiding principle of any strategy,"
says the Friends report. "Without this, the forest will not survive."

Stephen Smith, a forester and certified arborist, argues that "there
are plenty of areas already ravaged in the city, plenty of brown lands
that could easily be converted to allow stunt riders.

"Neither dog walkers nor bikers are a passive use, and it only takes a
few to ruin it for the rest."

I agree these kinds of bikers should be prosecuted for destruction of
property, public or private. If they want to do stunts they should find
a few acres of land that they can bulldoze into shape for their own use
on private property. I ride my bike past a farm where the boys have used
the equipment to make a motocross and cyclo-cross set of ramps. They
have it right. My mountain biking is just for trail exploration and I
think that is all that should be allowed on public property.

Nope, the public has no obligation to give you a place to ride your
erosion-machine. Settled in federal court in 1994: there is no right
to mountain bike: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb10.

Bill Baka
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Jun 1, 11:31 am, "Wayne" wrote:
I know how these guys get started. I live in the middle of a 100 year old
city, but had a vacant lot next door. One year, every day after school, a
hoard of shovel toting wheelie bikers would show up in the vacant lot and
build dirt jumps. When neighbors complained, they would tell us to f&%k
off. When the owner showed up, they would run. He finally called the cops,
but the way the lot was situated, there were escape routes to other streets,
and most were not caught. The ones caught were warned, the parents were
called, and the kids were back the next day. When I confronted one of them,
he asked why it mattered, because the property was vacant. He also said
that they didn't have any other choice, as there were so few vacant lots
available.

Most of these kids have now moved on to off road motorcycles in the desert.
In short, they were raised by parents who also had no respect for the
concept of private property, and view public property as open to anything.
Happily, the next door lot was graded smooth long enough for a house to be
built.

What difference is it to you if the neighborhood kids are riding their
bike in an abandoned lot? I'm an adult and if I were riding and saw
some jumps in an abandoned lot, I may take a couple hits depending
which bike I'm on. If I saw the kids building and jumping I'd stop
and watch. If some neighbor came over and "confronted" me, I'd likely
ask the same question they did - what does it matter to you? I can
empathize with their decesion to tell you to f@%! off.

If the kids in my neighborhood wanted to build a jump on a vacant lot,
I'd be willing to bet they'd want to borrow my shovels to do it. I'd
happily let them, and swing by the site on my BMX to take a couple
runs & watch them build & ride. I'd likely give them pointers on how
to build different styles of jumps.

Do you complain about the noise of a basketball bouncing when they
play ball also? Call the police if a baseball smashes your window
instead of talking with the kid and having them or their parents
replace the window?

In message 6ZW7i.8$t84.2@trnddc04, Wayne
writes
I know how these guys get started. I live in the middle of a 100 year old
city, but had a vacant lot next door. One year, every day after school, a
hoard of shovel toting wheelie bikers would show up in the vacant lot and
build dirt jumps. When neighbors complained, they would tell us to f&%k
off. When the owner showed up, they would run. He finally called the cops,
but the way the lot was situated, there were escape routes to other streets,
and most were not caught. The ones caught were warned, the parents were
called, and the kids were back the next day. When I confronted one of them,
he asked why it mattered, because the property was vacant. He also said
that they didn't have any other choice, as there were so few vacant lots
available.

Most of these kids have now moved on to off road motorcycles in the desert.
In short, they were raised by parents who also had no respect for the
concept of private property, and view public property as open to anything.
Happily, the next door lot was graded smooth long enough for a house to be
built.

I agree. Kids should not be allowed to use redundant land to carry out
healthy pursuits. They should be made to sit in front of computers all
day, eat burgers until they are obese and do drugs out of boredom.
--
Devs
"Punchdown Pete the old Kroner"

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:46:48 GMT, Bill wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
Sound familiar? It IS. These are typical mountain bikers in action....

Mike


http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/200...ews_story.php:

"The city looks the other way while trail bike enthusiasts cut down
mature trees to construct daredevil jumps.
Photo By Darren Stehr"


Riding roughshod


Chainsaw-toting trail bike high-flyers cutting valley into mucky
ribbons

By KYLA DIXON-MUIR

At 52 hectares, about half the size of High Park, Crothers' Woods, a
small Carolinian Forest at the foot of the Leaside Bridge, is an
ecological rarity in these parts.

Signage erected at Beechwood Wetlands nearby warns walkers and birders
to tread softly. "Areas like the Lower Don Valley that have been
heavily disturbed by human activity are particularly susceptible to
the effects of invasive non-native species."

But despite being declared an ecologically sensitive area more than a
decade ago, Crothers is being sliced into mucky ribbons by trail bike
enthusiasts who think nothing of carting in chainsaws and cutting down
mature trees to build ramps for their daredevil jumps.

Illegally constructed stunts and jumps on the steep forest hillsides
of Crothers were torn down a few years ago, but the degradation,
including the excavation of huge ditches for jumps in the flats
between Crothers and Beechwood Wetlands, has continued at a breakneck
pace.

Large turnouts of 30-something male riders, a fixture at public
consultations in recent years, show little concern for preserving this
rare forest we're lucky to have this far north.

The Planning Partnership (TPP), the consulting group coordinating and
authoring a new management plan for the area, seems intent on
maintaining a system of bike trails through Crothers.

As if to justify the cyclists' presence, one TPP member observed at a
November 2006 consultation that "volunteer user groups [read the
pro-off-road International Mountain Bicycling Association, or IMBA]
have removed over 3 tons of garbage from the valley in recent years."

Indeed, TPP has received extensive input from IMBA.

Durham region IMBA rep Jason Murray says the group wants to "keep the
riding experience the same – a good and fun experience." At the same
time, he admits that "overuse is what has caused the spaghetti effect"
on muddy trails.

Friends of the Don East points out that mountain biking is banned in
other Toronto ravines. But planners, instead of protecting the area
outright, are hell-bent on making the trails multi-use. Urban forestry
supervisor Garth Armour was the only city staffer at the recent public
consultation to say that "jumping and skills facilities should be
elsewhere."

"A continuity of environment," says Gavin Miller of the Toronto and
Region Conservation Authority, "and of our Natural Heritage Strategy
are the overall TRCA thrust."

But there's little talk of sustaining the unique wildflower meadows,
reserving areas for wildlife or looking at the Don Valley as a whole
corridor system.

Miller points out that "TPP's [draft] plan results in a net reduction
in [bike] trail kilometres."

Crothers' interior is intersected by 10 kilometres of natural surface
trails, densely in its steepest third. The consultants propose to
close only 1.8 kilometres of duplicate trails on these
highest-sensitivity slopes.

Sean Wheldrake, bicycle promotions coordinator, says city cycling
ambassadors, who are paid city staff, will be dispatched to Crothers
to reduce conflict and educate trail users.

But the ambassadors, while versed in trail etiquette, are not trained
in biota (flora and fauna) recognition, wildlife protection or
restoration.

Friends of the Don East has produced a paper noting that mountain
biking is banned in Glendon Forest and Rouge Park and confined to
trails by fencing in Sherwood Park.

"Ecological integrity must be the guiding principle of any strategy,"
says the Friends report. "Without this, the forest will not survive."

Stephen Smith, a forester and certified arborist, argues that "there
are plenty of areas already ravaged in the city, plenty of brown lands
that could easily be converted to allow stunt riders.

"Neither dog walkers nor bikers are a passive use, and it only takes a
few to ruin it for the rest."
I agree these kinds of bikers should be prosecuted for destruction of
property, public or private. If they want to do stunts they should find
a few acres of land that they can bulldoze into shape for their own use
on private property. I ride my bike past a farm where the boys have used
the equipment to make a motocross and cyclo-cross set of ramps. They
have it right. My mountain biking is just for trail exploration and I
think that is all that should be allowed on public property.

Nope, the public has no obligation to give you a place to ride your
erosion-machine. Settled in federal court in 1994: there is no right
to mountain bike: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb10.

Bill Baka

Mike,
Now I know why you are tagged as a flaming idiot. It fits.
My riding probably does less damage than walking, unless you float.
Get real or grow some semblance of a functional brain.
SFB's Vandeman.
Most of you know what S for brains means.
Bill Baka

On Jun 1, 12:56 pm, Devs wrote:
In message 6ZW7i.8$t84.2@trnddc04, Wayne
writes





I know how these guys get started. I live in the middle of a 100 year old
city, but had a vacant lot next door. One year, every day after school, a
hoard of shovel toting wheelie bikers would show up in the vacant lot and
build dirt jumps. When neighbors complained, they would tell us to f&%k
off. When the owner showed up, they would run. He finally called the cops,
but the way the lot was situated, there were escape routes to other streets,
and most were not caught. The ones caught were warned, the parents were
called, and the kids were back the next day. When I confronted one of them,
he asked why it mattered, because the property was vacant. He also said
that they didn't have any other choice, as there were so few vacant lots
available.

Most of these kids have now moved on to off road motorcycles in the desert.
In short, they were raised by parents who also had no respect for the
concept of private property, and view public property as open to anything.
Happily, the next door lot was graded smooth long enough for a house to be
built.

I agree. Kids should not be allowed to use redundant land to carry out
healthy pursuits. They should be made to sit in front of computers all
day, eat burgers until they are obese and do drugs out of boredom.
--
Devs
"Punchdown Pete the old Kroner"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot video games, candy, TV & cheap liquor.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 1, 11:31 am, "Wayne" wrote:
I know how these guys get started. I live in the middle of a 100 year
old
city, but had a vacant lot next door. One year, every day after school,
a
hoard of shovel toting wheelie bikers would show up in the vacant lot and
build dirt jumps. When neighbors complained, they would tell us to f&%k
off. When the owner showed up, they would run. He finally called the
cops,
but the way the lot was situated, there were escape routes to other
streets,
and most were not caught. The ones caught were warned, the parents were
called, and the kids were back the next day. When I confronted one of
them,
he asked why it mattered, because the property was vacant. He also said
that they didn't have any other choice, as there were so few vacant lots
available.

Most of these kids have now moved on to off road motorcycles in the
desert.
In short, they were raised by parents who also had no respect for the
concept of private property, and view public property as open to
anything.
Happily, the next door lot was graded smooth long enough for a house to
be
built.

What difference is it to you if the neighborhood kids are riding their
bike in an abandoned lot? I'm an adult and if I were riding and saw
some jumps in an abandoned lot, I may take a couple hits depending
which bike I'm on. If I saw the kids building and jumping I'd stop
and watch. If some neighbor came over and "confronted" me, I'd likely
ask the same question they did - what does it matter to you? I can
empathize with their decesion to tell you to f@%! off.

If the kids in my neighborhood wanted to build a jump on a vacant lot,
I'd be willing to bet they'd want to borrow my shovels to do it. I'd
happily let them, and swing by the site on my BMX to take a couple
runs & watch them build & ride. I'd likely give them pointers on how
to build different styles of jumps.

Do you complain about the noise of a basketball bouncing when they
play ball also? Call the police if a baseball smashes your window
instead of talking with the kid and having them or their parents
replace the window?

Ah hah! One of those parents! So what's the difference?
1. The owner spent several thousand dollars every year getting the jumps
bulldozed down and the property levelled again.
2. There were at least two real estate sales that were cancelled in the
neighborhood because the gang was sighted when out of control
2. When they needed to take a ****, they didn't go home...they just ****ed
on the nearest fence.
3. If a kid had gotten hurt while on the property, the parents would have
certainly sued the owner.
4. One of the neighbors had an elderly bedridden parent, whose bedroom
faced the noisiest part of the activities. The activites started daily
after school and continued until dark. On weekends, it started at about 7
AM and went to dark.
5. Several times they set the field on fire while smoking (legal and
illegal). And yes, this is fire country.
6. I personally broke up a "fight club", and rendered first aid several
times. Once it required calling paramedics.
7. The kids stole grocery carts, etc to use for jump supports, and left
trash all over the property. The trash blew all over the neighborhood.
8. Misuse of the property by non-owners appears to give "permission by
example" to other non-owners. For example, your failure to set a good
example by joining them.

Yes, it does matter. Just because you bought the toy, it doesn't give you
the right to use it on private property. And that's where the lawless
element comes from.

Wayne wrote:
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
Sound familiar? It IS. These are typical mountain bikers in action....

Mike


http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/200...ews_story.php:

"The city looks the other way while trail bike enthusiasts cut down
mature trees to construct daredevil jumps.
Photo By Darren Stehr"


Sounds like immature BMXers to me, that has nothing to do with mountain
biking.

In short, they were raised by parents who also had no respect for the
concept of private property,

Good for the kids, after all, property is theft.

Greg

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