italy or denmark?

Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time
did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn
between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves,
hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a
slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which
frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy
seems to be the hills. I'm most interested in Tuscany and Umbria.
Anyone who has experienced both countries (or either), weigh in. I am
in average shape for a cycle-tourist - can do about 35-50 miles per
day, with some hills.

In article . com,
"phil" wrote:

Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time
did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn
between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves,
hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a
slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which
frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of
Italy seems to be the hills. I'm most interested in Tuscany and
Umbria. Anyone who has experienced both countries (or either), weigh
in. I am in average shape for a cycle-tourist - can do about 35-50
miles per day, with some hills.

There are, like always, tradeoffs. I'm speaking from secondhand
knowledge here.

Denmark is expensive. The roads are excellent and the terrain is fairly
flat. Bicycling is common for errands and less common for sport or
amusement. The people are very friendly and English is very commonly
spoken, except by the elderly, as its a required subject in school.
That's good because no one can pronounce Danish properly unless you grew
up with those sounds, but the politenesses (hello, please, thank you,
etc.) are easy to learn and much appreciated. Danes are very
hospitable. The entire country tends to be very quaint and cozy, as
coziness (hygge) is a cultural value. There are inns at specified
intervals on every main road. The food is very good and all meals have
a sense of formality- indeed there are cultural rules about the order of
dishes. The national tipples are beer (lagers) and aquavit (a vodka
type liquor flavored with spices like caraway and cardamom, drunk
ice-cold). You'll find that it's hard to have a chat with a Dane
without something to drink and eat being involved.

http://www.trentobike.org/bycountry/Denmark.html

Italy is less expensive. The climate is much warmer. The roads are
variable and in Umbria and Tuscany tend to be hilly. Bicycling for
sport is common and somewhat less so for errands. The people tend to be
friendly and it's not as likely that you'll find English speakers- much
like France in that regard. They really appreciate your attempts to
speak some Italian. The evening meal in a restaurant is a production
and can take a long time. The food is excellent and highly regional.
The tipple is wine and coffee. My friends who have been to Italy-
cycling and otherwise- came back raving about how much they enjoyed it.

http://www.trentobike.org/bycountry_one/Italy.html

This brings up one of my favorite Garrison Keillor stories. He married
a Danish woman and lived in Denmark for a while (and as a result, he
speaks Danish because- as it was explained to me- Danish law requires
you to learn the language before you can take a job. You are considered
disabled until you can speak the language and pass the official exam.
Even though practically everyone speaks very good English). One day his
car was broken into and his wallet was stolen. Form quite a while at
parties and such, Danes would express their regrets that this happened
to him. Garrison would thank them gravely and say, "well, we have crime
in America too."

I'd love to go to Italy to tour. My wife, who is of Danish extraction,
wants to go to Denmark in part because she hates riding a bike uphill.
I think I could probably deal.

"phil" wrote in news:1169997655.743964.51480
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time
did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn
between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves,
hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a
slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which
frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy
seems to be the hills.

No - the upside to Italy is the hills. The scenery is beautiful and the
hills have helped to preserve all the little medieval hilltowns. The
suburban sprawl mostly just takes place in the valleys. The average
gradients are not that steep or long (maybe 6-8% for 2-4 miles), though there
are some short, steep roads. If you like food and art and history, Tuscany
is one of the best places in Europe for bicycling.

If you really really really don't like climbing, then stick to Holland or
Denmark or the flatter parts of France.

On Jan 28, 8:45 am, sally wrote:
"phil" wrote in news:1169997655.743964.51480
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:

Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time
did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn
between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves,
hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a
slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which
frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy
seems to be the hills.No - the upside to Italy is the hills. The scenery is beautiful and the
hills have helped to preserve all the little medieval hilltowns. The
suburban sprawl mostly just takes place in the valleys. The average
gradients are not that steep or long (maybe 6-8% for 2-4 miles), though there
are some short, steep roads. If you like food and art and history, Tuscany
is one of the best places in Europe for bicycling.

If you really really really don't like climbing, then stick to Holland or
Denmark or the flatter parts of France.

Italy isn't just Tuscany and Umbria. Northern Italy's Veneto and
Piedmont have flatlands, hills and mountains. In the Veneto flatlands
are castle towns and Palladian villas to visit. In Piedmont's
flatlands are also castle towns to visit, and the Langhe wine country
region is a gourmet's paradise. Their hills have pretty hilltowns, as
Tuscany and Umbria do. And the mountains provide spectacular scenery
if you don't wish to ride up them, and satisfying challenges if you
do.

Some parts of Tuscany -- Florence, Siena, Chianti country (aka Chianti-
SHIRE because so many Brits have settled there) and the better known
hill towns (San Gimignano, Orvieto, etc.) -- can be overrun with
English-speaking tourists. In Perugia, Umbria, so many English
speakers come to study Italian that waiters automatically start in
English when speaking to new clientele.

Thanks - is there are particular ride you can recommend? We want to
cycle self-guided in September - probably 1 - 2 weeks of cycling.

On Jan 28, 11:45 am, sally wrote:
"phil" wrote in news:1169997655.743964.51480
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:

Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time
did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn
between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves,
hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a
slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which
frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy
seems to be the hills.No - the upside to Italy is the hills. The scenery is beautiful and the
hills have helped to preserve all the little medieval hilltowns. The
suburban sprawl mostly just takes place in the valleys. The average
gradients are not that steep or long (maybe 6-8% for 2-4 miles), though there
are some short, steep roads. If you like food and art and history, Tuscany
is one of the best places in Europe for bicycling.

If you really really really don't like climbing, then stick to Holland or
Denmark or the flatter parts of France.

Thanks - is there a particular ride you an recommend in the Veneto/
Piedmont area? (book, self-guided tour, your own, etc.)


On Jan 28, 12:45 pm, "dorkypants" wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:45 am, sally wrote:





"phil" wrote in news:1169997655.743964.51480
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:

Am looking for a country for my second europe cycle trip. Last time
did Burgundy region of France - self-guided. Wonderful. Now I'm torn
between Italy and Denmark. Italy, for the landscapes - olive groves,
hilltop towns, art and architecture, Denmark because it sounds like a
slightly more exotic and interesting version of Holland, which
frankly, seemed somewhat boring from my reading. The downside of Italy
seems to be the hills.No - the upside to Italy is the hills. The scenery is beautiful and the
hills have helped to preserve all the little medieval hilltowns. The
suburban sprawl mostly just takes place in the valleys. The average
gradients are not that steep or long (maybe 6-8% for 2-4 miles), though there
are some short, steep roads. If you like food and art and history, Tuscany
is one of the best places in Europe for bicycling.

If you really really really don't like climbing, then stick to Holland or
Denmark or the flatter parts of France.Italy isn't just Tuscany and Umbria. Northern Italy's Veneto and
Piedmont have flatlands, hills and mountains. In the Veneto flatlands
are castle towns and Palladian villas to visit. In Piedmont's
flatlands are also castle towns to visit, and the Langhe wine country
region is a gourmet's paradise. Their hills have pretty hilltowns, as
Tuscany and Umbria do. And the mountains provide spectacular scenery
if you don't wish to ride up them, and satisfying challenges if you
do.

Some parts of Tuscany -- Florence, Siena, Chianti country (aka Chianti-
SHIRE because so many Brits have settled there) and the better known
hill towns (San Gimignano, Orvieto, etc.) -- can be overrun with
English-speaking tourists. In Perugia, Umbria, so many English
speakers come to study Italian that waiters automatically start in
English when speaking to new clientele.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

"phil" wrote in
ups.com:
Thanks - is there are particular ride you can recommend? We want to
cycle self-guided in September - probably 1 - 2 weeks of cycling.

Get the book "Bicycle Touring in Tuscany" by David Cleveland

On Jan 28, 8:45 pm, sally wrote:
"phil" wrote roups.com:

Thanks - is there are particular ride you can recommend? We want to
cycle self-guided in September - probably 1 - 2 weeks of cycling.Get the book "Bicycle Touring in Tuscany" by David Cleveland

I don't know this book, or any such book in fact.
However, once you have made up your mind you may like to get back for
hints and tips.
I have been riding my bikes for 'some' years in the neighborhood,
through towns and countrysides as well. .

Sergio
Pisa

phil wrote
We want to cycle self-guided in September - probably 1 - 2 weeks of
cycling.

I've gotten lots of helpful ideas from this book:
"Cycling Italy", by Ethan Gelber and others (Lonely Planet, 2003)

I've also found lots of nice riding from using the Touring Club Italiano
1:200000 maps and inventing my own routes that included lots of roads
highlighted in green. Recently I've also found some Michelin regional maps
for Italy to offer a "second opinion". Of course when using that approach it
helps to have some intelligent experience in guessing where the high traffic
is going to be and not be, and stuff like that -- and to be prepared to
change your plan when things on the ground are different than what you were
guessing from the map.

Italy is a big place. For all I know there might be more km of gentle roads
around the eastern Po river valley of Italy than in all of Denmark. There
are lots of canals around there too: "navigli" -- Wouldn't it be funny it
Italy turned out to have more km of canals than the Netherlands?

Ken

On 29 Gen, 20:32, "Ken Roberts"
wrote:
For all I know there might be more km of gentle roads
around the eastern Po river valley of Italy than in all of Denmark. There
are lots of canals around there too: "navigli" -- Wouldn't it be funny it
Italy turned out to have more km of canals than the Netherlands?

A due word of caution, here.
The Piste Ciclabili are usually poor in signs and not at all well
connected one to the next one. I happened to temporarily get lost just
outside of Milano and I have seen stranded bike riders looking for the
trail on the outskirts of Lana d'Adige. On another occasion, a friend
of mine preferred to deliver me past Cremona, judging that the trail
along the Po river bank, upstream from there, might turrn out to be
just a mirage for me.

Sergio
Pisa