SMH Article: Sydney: the city that hates bikes

A U.S.A. academic was stunned by his experience, observes that "Sydney
is one of the developed world's most hostile cities for cycling".
Article is in the URL
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-the...-20100312-q45h.
html

I was surprised that it was *worse* that Texas and the south-east states
of U.S.A.

--
K.A. Moylan
Canberra, Australia
Ski Club: http://www.cccsc.asn.au
kamoylan at ozemail dot com dot au

K.A. Moylan wrote:
A U.S.A. academic was stunned by his experience, observes that "Sydney
is one of the developed world's most hostile cities for cycling".
Article is in the URL
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-the...-20100312-q45h.
html

I was surprised that it was *worse* that Texas and the south-east states
of U.S.A.

Further on in the same edition is an article quoting Geoff Brabham on
how appalling Sydney drivers are Nothing to do with cyclists). I think
that is the crux of the matter, the are crap, rude ,selfish drivers.

--
Remove norubbish to reply

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:25:41 +1100
Jack Russell wrote:

Further on in the same edition is an article quoting Geoff Brabham on
how appalling Sydney drivers are Nothing to do with cyclists). I think
that is the crux of the matter, the are crap, rude ,selfish drivers.

Weird in a way... the very first time I drove in Sydney I was stunned
at how polite the drivers were!

If I put my indicator on to change lanes, people gave way to let me
in, never seen that in the other cities I drove in.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:25:41 +1100
Jack Russell wrote:
Further on in the same edition is an article quoting Geoff Brabham on
how appalling Sydney drivers are Nothing to do with cyclists). I think
that is the crux of the matter, the are crap, rude ,selfish drivers.

Weird in a way... the very first time I drove in Sydney I was stunned
at how polite the drivers were!

If I put my indicator on to change lanes, people gave way to let me
in, never seen that in the other cities I drove in.

Zebee
Funny that because my experience is the exact opposite and it is the
example I always use of how bad Sydney drivers are!!!

--
Remove norubbish to reply

K.A. Moylan wrote:
A U.S.A. academic was stunned by his experience, observes that "Sydney
is one of the developed world's most hostile cities for cycling".
Article is in the URL
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-the...-20100312-q45h.
html

I was surprised that it was *worse* that Texas and the south-east states
of U.S.A.


I couldn't say if Sydney was any beter or worse than any other city
simply cos I have never ridden anywhere else.

The way I see it is that given the total number of motor vehicles which
go past me as I am riding versus the number of negative sentiments
expressed by drivers that go past me, my personal experiences have
largely been good with a few minor exceptions.

Like all statistical claims, I am a bit wary of that academic's sample
population including my own included

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:27:34 +1100
Jack Russell wrote:
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:25:41 +1100
Jack Russell wrote:
Further on in the same edition is an article quoting Geoff Brabham on
how appalling Sydney drivers are Nothing to do with cyclists). I think
that is the crux of the matter, the are crap, rude ,selfish drivers.

Weird in a way... the very first time I drove in Sydney I was stunned
at how polite the drivers were!

If I put my indicator on to change lanes, people gave way to let me
in, never seen that in the other cities I drove in.

Zebee
Funny that because my experience is the exact opposite and it is the
example I always use of how bad Sydney drivers are!!!

I see it all the time on my commute. I suspect it is because a Sydney
driver will indicate and go, so if you don't give way you get hit...
but they do give way.

I do see people hesitating, you don't get a huge time window to make
your changes so if you dither they will give up and think you don't
want to change lanes.

Zebee

"K.A. Moylan" wrote in message
...
A U.S.A. academic was stunned by his experience, observes that "Sydney
is one of the developed world's most hostile cities for cycling".
Article is in the URL
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-the...-20100312-q45h.
html


Gee, that is a hard one. Sounds awfully subjective and therefore open to
all sorts of biases. I would like to see what objective criteria you would
use to decide if Sydney drivers are more hostile than drivers elsewhere.
And then what scientific method would you use?

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:25:41 +1100

Weird in a way... the very first time I drove in Sydney I was stunned
at how polite the drivers were!

If I put my indicator on to change lanes, people gave way to let me
in, never seen that in the other cities I drove in.

Zebee


I have to agree Zebee. I've done three Audax rides and various other
activities down in Sydney in recent months. The drivers were splendid. I
think I had two pinheads use their horns in 800km, all the other drivers
were amazingly polite, skilled and intelligent. Definitely not what I
was told to expect.

Peter

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
...
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:25:41 +1100
Jack Russell wrote:

Further on in the same edition is an article quoting Geoff Brabham on
how appalling Sydney drivers are Nothing to do with cyclists). I think
that is the crux of the matter, the are crap, rude ,selfish drivers.

Weird in a way... the very first time I drove in Sydney I was stunned
at how polite the drivers were!

If I put my indicator on to change lanes, people gave way to let me
in, never seen that in the other cities I drove in.

Zebee
Commuters and peak hour drivers seem to be more polite.
The traffic is so clogged in sydney at these times, that drivers seem to be
resigned to the fact that they are going to be slowed down anyway.
At weekends and other times when the hoons and yahoos are about, it is a
different story.

Jack Russell wrote:
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:25:41 +1100
Jack Russell wrote:
Further on in the same edition is an article quoting Geoff Brabham on
how appalling Sydney drivers are Nothing to do with cyclists). I think
that is the crux of the matter, the are crap, rude ,selfish drivers.

Weird in a way... the very first time I drove in Sydney I was stunned
at how polite the drivers were!

If I put my indicator on to change lanes, people gave way to let me
in, never seen that in the other cities I drove in.

Zebee
Funny that because my experience is the exact opposite and it is the
example I always use of how bad Sydney drivers are!!!

Sydney drivers are as polite and accommodating as they need to
be, and not one iota more. They have evolved into a compliant yet
malevolent herd.

But I feel sorry for some of them. It's like a kind of Locked In Syndrome,
not entirely their own choice. Locked In the steel cage, and locked in
the traffic lanes, between the car in front and the bus behind, fantasising
about Kakadu panoramas or rally car leaps. The promises of manufacturer
advertising, and state government indolence limit their alternatives and
vision.

The default is to trust RTA plans. That should be enough of a threat to
evoke better solutions, but sadly it hasn't ever happened in Sydney.

In a sense I don't care much, because I'm not locked into the lanes
and the cages. 30 minutes walk to an office on the harbour and
back is just fine. Can be done without even one traffic light. Cycling
is an option, but 3K isn't long enough.

OTOH, I'd like the drivers to wake up and get a personality beyond
grumpiness. Something they may well have when they recover from
their commute.

My pedestrian adventures include observing faces of drivers. And
occasionally, very occasionally, I see a smile.

Tomasso.