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Eyc headlight problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 28th 21, 04:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,134
Default Eyc headlight problem

On last night's ride I took the touring bike with its B&M Eyc headlight
powered by an old Union bottle dynamo. (Usually I take a bike with a hub
dyno.) The Lumotec Eyc is about 2/3 down this page:
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.php

My friend who rides with me often leaves his headlight off to save his
battery, since we can see so well by mine. But not last night. Right at
the start, my headlight turned itself off. I tried the switch (and I do
dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring
connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten
feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would
occasionally blink off then back on.

At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its
standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring
connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the
headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it
sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface.

Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile
ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second.
But its very worrisome.

I'll be writing to Peter White, from whom I bought this. But I'm
wondering if anyone here has had similar troubles with a B&M lamp, or if
anyone wants to get a head start on speculating.

(When my electronic poltergeist starts infecting my bike equipment, it's
a bad, bad sign.)

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #2  
Old March 28th 21, 06:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,809
Default Eyc headlight problem

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 11:40:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I tried the switch (and I do
dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring
connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten
feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would
occasionally blink off then back on.

At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its
standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring
connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the
headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it
sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface.

Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile
ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second.
But its very worrisome.


I've seen similar symptoms with LiIon flashlights and battery powered
bicycle lighting. My guess(tm) is a loose connection somewhere in the
wiring system. As you mention, it could also be inside the light. The
erratic intermittent behavior suggests that it's NOT an electronics
component failure, which would be more cyclic.

Most commonly (in flashlights), I see this caused by the LED COB. The
LED is soldered onto the PCB (printed circuit board) forming the COB
(chip on board). The PCB will flex as the LED heats up eventually
breaking the solder connection. The solder doesn't really melt, but
instead cracks. I fix these using a hot air SMD soldering station:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hot+air+smd+rework+station&tbm=isch
Tear the light apart, and touch the LED or slightly bend the PCB while
the lamp is operating. If it flickers, you found the problem. It can
also be components other than the LED, which should be detectable by
bending the PCB or visual inspection. Using the SMD soldering station
takes practice. I suggest you find someone who knows how to use one.

Another problem I've seen are crappy wire connections. These come in
a variety of failures such as cold solder connection, bad crimp,
insulation displacement, jacket creep, and corrosion. The best way to
find these is by probing with a DVM (digital volt meter). The catch
is that you can only find a bad connection if the light is in failure
mode. If it seems to be working normally on the workbench, you're
probably better off taking the light and wiring apart and pulling on
each connection. If the connection moves, stretches, or falls apart,
you found the problem. Corrosion should be obvious. Also, look for
annual rings (usually black) around wires that run through holes in
the PCB. Such rings are cold solder joints, caused by the assembler
being in a hurry, and need to be restarted.

I've only seen one broken wire on a bicycle, which took me weeks to
isolate. I finally found it by pulling on each of the wire ends. One
wire seemed to stretch, indicating a break somewhere. I found where
the insulation necked down from the stretching and spliced the wire.
Problem solved. This wire was NOT under tension and showed no sign of
corrosion, so my guess(tm) is that the wire was defective from the
vendor.

However, my initial wild guess points to the Union bottle dynamo. I
haven't seen any failures with these because I don't use them.
However, if it's as old as you suggest, it might be a good place to
start. Try powering the light with a battery or power supply. Then,
disconnect one of the power wires. The B&M lights usually have a
stand light feature, which is basically a supercap to power the LED
while the generator is NOT turning. If you disconnect the power wire,
and the light goes into stand light mode, and slowly fades away, then
it's working normally. Therefore, the problem is likely NOT in the
dynamo or wiring that power the light. I would need to be after the
stand light circuitry inside the B&M light.

Good luck.

Drivel:
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Dizoangphobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/BMWphobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Cyclophobia


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #3  
Old March 28th 21, 10:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,334
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 3/28/2021 10:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Another problem I've seen are crappy wire connections. These come in
a variety of failures such as cold solder connection, bad crimp,
insulation displacement, jacket creep, and corrosion.


I'd first look for bad crimps. I crimp then solder for both a good
electrical and good mechanical connection, except on crimp connections
like Anderson Powerpole where it's not practical to solder after
crimping. If the bottle dynamo uses a bare wire then hopefully there's a
little extra length to create a clean connection.
  #4  
Old March 28th 21, 11:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,134
Default Eyc headlight problem

On 3/28/2021 1:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 11:40:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I tried the switch (and I do
dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring
connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten
feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would
occasionally blink off then back on.

At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its
standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring
connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the
headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it
sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface.

Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile
ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second.
But its very worrisome.


I've seen similar symptoms with LiIon flashlights and battery powered
bicycle lighting. My guess(tm) is a loose connection somewhere in the
wiring system. As you mention, it could also be inside the light. The
erratic intermittent behavior suggests that it's NOT an electronics
component failure, which would be more cyclic.

Most commonly (in flashlights), I see this caused by the LED COB. The
LED is soldered onto the PCB (printed circuit board) forming the COB
(chip on board). The PCB will flex as the LED heats up eventually
breaking the solder connection. The solder doesn't really melt, but
instead cracks. I fix these using a hot air SMD soldering station:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hot+air+smd+rework+station&tbm=isch
Tear the light apart, and touch the LED or slightly bend the PCB while
the lamp is operating. If it flickers, you found the problem. It can
also be components other than the LED, which should be detectable by
bending the PCB or visual inspection. Using the SMD soldering station
takes practice. I suggest you find someone who knows how to use one.

Another problem I've seen are crappy wire connections. These come in
a variety of failures such as cold solder connection, bad crimp,
insulation displacement, jacket creep, and corrosion. The best way to
find these is by probing with a DVM (digital volt meter). The catch
is that you can only find a bad connection if the light is in failure
mode. If it seems to be working normally on the workbench, you're
probably better off taking the light and wiring apart and pulling on
each connection. If the connection moves, stretches, or falls apart,
you found the problem. Corrosion should be obvious. Also, look for
annual rings (usually black) around wires that run through holes in
the PCB. Such rings are cold solder joints, caused by the assembler
being in a hurry, and need to be restarted.

I've only seen one broken wire on a bicycle, which took me weeks to
isolate. I finally found it by pulling on each of the wire ends. One
wire seemed to stretch, indicating a break somewhere. I found where
the insulation necked down from the stretching and spliced the wire.
Problem solved. This wire was NOT under tension and showed no sign of
corrosion, so my guess(tm) is that the wire was defective from the
vendor.

However, my initial wild guess points to the Union bottle dynamo. I
haven't seen any failures with these because I don't use them.
However, if it's as old as you suggest, it might be a good place to
start. Try powering the light with a battery or power supply. Then,
disconnect one of the power wires. The B&M lights usually have a
stand light feature, which is basically a supercap to power the LED
while the generator is NOT turning. If you disconnect the power wire,
and the light goes into stand light mode, and slowly fades away, then
it's working normally. Therefore, the problem is likely NOT in the
dynamo or wiring that power the light. I would need to be after the
stand light circuitry inside the B&M light.

Good luck.

Drivel:
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Dizoangphobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/BMWphobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Cyclophobia


Thanks for the information. I've emailed Peter White and will say what
he says before I dig in further.

But as I said, I suspect the problem is internal to the headlamp because
one of the time it shut down, I was stationary. The light was in
standlight mode, during which it gets no external current supply. The
standlight turned off just as suddenly as the main light was doing.

But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a
6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.)

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #5  
Old March 29th 21, 12:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,809
Default Eyc headlight problem

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 18:08:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

But as I said, I suspect the problem is internal to the headlamp because
one of the time it shut down, I was stationary. The light was in
standlight mode, during which it gets no external current supply. The
standlight turned off just as suddenly as the main light was doing.


Good observation. I also mentioned it at the end of my rant. Whatever
is intermittent is inside the headlight.

But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a
6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.)


Bottles are usually designed to run 6 volts and 3 watts at about 15
km/hr.
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html
6V should work, but watch out that the light doesn't get too hot.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #6  
Old March 29th 21, 05:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,193
Default Eyc headlight problem

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 6:08:50 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/28/2021 1:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 11:40:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I tried the switch (and I do
dislike "soft" switches buried under rubber covers), I felt the wiring
connections, spun the wheel a few times, then it came back on. Rode ten
feet and it blinked off. Then back on and stayed on, mostly, but would
occasionally blink off then back on.

At one stop to listen to a chorus of frogs, the Eyc was running only its
standlight when it suddenly blinked off. That tells me it's not a wiring
connection or an internal dyno problem. It must be a problem inside the
headlamp itself. Also, it's not triggered by bumps AFAICT, and it
sometimes blinked off while riding a perfectly smooth surface.

Fortunately, it always came back to life and for the rest of the 15 mile
ride it blinked out only occasionally, and for never more than a second.
But its very worrisome.


I've seen similar symptoms with LiIon flashlights and battery powered
bicycle lighting. My guess(tm) is a loose connection somewhere in the
wiring system. As you mention, it could also be inside the light. The
erratic intermittent behavior suggests that it's NOT an electronics
component failure, which would be more cyclic.

Most commonly (in flashlights), I see this caused by the LED COB. The
LED is soldered onto the PCB (printed circuit board) forming the COB
(chip on board). The PCB will flex as the LED heats up eventually
breaking the solder connection. The solder doesn't really melt, but
instead cracks. I fix these using a hot air SMD soldering station:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hot+air+smd+rework+station&tbm=isch
Tear the light apart, and touch the LED or slightly bend the PCB while
the lamp is operating. If it flickers, you found the problem. It can
also be components other than the LED, which should be detectable by
bending the PCB or visual inspection. Using the SMD soldering station
takes practice. I suggest you find someone who knows how to use one.

Another problem I've seen are crappy wire connections. These come in
a variety of failures such as cold solder connection, bad crimp,
insulation displacement, jacket creep, and corrosion. The best way to
find these is by probing with a DVM (digital volt meter). The catch
is that you can only find a bad connection if the light is in failure
mode. If it seems to be working normally on the workbench, you're
probably better off taking the light and wiring apart and pulling on
each connection. If the connection moves, stretches, or falls apart,
you found the problem. Corrosion should be obvious. Also, look for
annual rings (usually black) around wires that run through holes in
the PCB. Such rings are cold solder joints, caused by the assembler
being in a hurry, and need to be restarted.

I've only seen one broken wire on a bicycle, which took me weeks to
isolate. I finally found it by pulling on each of the wire ends. One
wire seemed to stretch, indicating a break somewhere. I found where
the insulation necked down from the stretching and spliced the wire.
Problem solved. This wire was NOT under tension and showed no sign of
corrosion, so my guess(tm) is that the wire was defective from the
vendor.

However, my initial wild guess points to the Union bottle dynamo. I
haven't seen any failures with these because I don't use them.
However, if it's as old as you suggest, it might be a good place to
start. Try powering the light with a battery or power supply. Then,
disconnect one of the power wires. The B&M lights usually have a
stand light feature, which is basically a supercap to power the LED
while the generator is NOT turning. If you disconnect the power wire,
and the light goes into stand light mode, and slowly fades away, then
it's working normally. Therefore, the problem is likely NOT in the
dynamo or wiring that power the light. I would need to be after the
stand light circuitry inside the B&M light.

Good luck.

Drivel:
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Dizoangphobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/BMWphobia
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Cyclophobia

Thanks for the information. I've emailed Peter White and will say what
he says before I dig in further.

But as I said, I suspect the problem is internal to the headlamp because
one of the time it shut down, I was stationary. The light was in
standlight mode, during which it gets no external current supply. The
standlight turned off just as suddenly as the main light was doing.

But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a
6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.)

--
- Frank Krygowski


Could it be that a faulty sensor is registering something as getting too hot and shutting down even if for a second or so?

Cheers
  #7  
Old March 29th 21, 09:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 244
Default Eyc headlight problem

Am 29.03.2021 um 06:22 schrieb Sir Ridesalot:
On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 6:08:50 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:


But as I said, I suspect the problem is internal to the headlamp because
one of the time it shut down, I was stationary. The light was in
standlight mode, during which it gets no external current supply. The
standlight turned off just as suddenly as the main light was doing.

But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a
6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.)


Could it be that a faulty sensor is registering something as getting too hot and shutting down even if for a second or so?


More likely a loose element (broken soldering point) on the IC.
At some tail lights, it tended to be the capacitor that broke loose;
I've never heared of it happening to front lights as well.

Rolf

  #8  
Old March 29th 21, 11:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 441
Default Eyc headlight problem

Frank Krygowski wrote:

But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a
6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.)


Not the AC-Eyc, RTFM.

But how about a new lamp and some real circuit?
http://tandem-fahren.de/Mitglieder/Framstag/LED/Wollmilchsau/
  #9  
Old March 29th 21, 06:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,809
Default Eyc headlight problem

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:23:28 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:

But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a
6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.)


Not the AC-Eyc, RTFM.


That was my suggestion. I assumed that anything with a bridge
rectifier on the AC input would also run on DC.

Nothing in the data sheet:
https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dynamo-scheinwerfer/produkt/160rtsndi%20.html

However, the instructions say otherwise:
https://www.bumm.de/files/Produkte/LUMOTEC%20Eyc_Avy_IQ-XS.PDF
The headlight can only be powered by a dynamo (AC). Connection
to a DC power source (battery) is not possible.

I don't have a schematic or headlight to dissect. I wonder what
they're doing to prevent DC operation.

There is a 6 to 42VDC Eyc version:
https://curbsidecycle.com/products/busch-muller-lumotec-eyc-dc-front-light-e-bike
which probably has a different DC-DC buck converter. I couldn't find
this DC version on the B&M site, but did find this:
https://www.bumm.de/en/products/e-bike-beleuchtung.html?info=1
In Germany before 2014, e-bikes had to have a regular
bicycle dynamo powering the light system. Such a dynamo
supplies 6 VC AC. If your e-bike is equipped with a
dynamo, it is not suitable for use with an e-bike headlight.
All our dynamo-powered headlights may be used in this case.

I'm suspicious that this is a safety measure inspired by users
connecting the AC dynamo version of the headlight to an eBike with a
12, 26, or 48 VDC battery and destroying the headlight. Nobody makes
a 6VDC eBike making the risk quite real. However, to be safe and in
case I missed something, I won't suggest that Frank plug his Eyc into
a 6VDC battery.

Peter White Cycles nothing about battery power in the Eyc section at:
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.php
but does have a note about running the IQ-X on 5VDC from USB power.
We have recently discovered, (April 19, 2017) that the
IQ-X headlight and the Busch & Müller USB-WERK charger
are not compatible. When the cache battery in the
USB-WERK is charging, the IQ-X beam becomes quite dim.
While riding, this can happen for about two seconds,
every thirty seconds or so, and so causes a dangerous
situation, since the rider will briefly not be able to
see the road ahead. If you have the USB-WERK and plan
to use the IQ-X headlight, you should be prepared to
unplug the USB-WERK at night. I recommend using the
Lumotec IQ CYO Premium T Senso Plus or the new IQ-XS
with the USB-WERK, since they are unaffected by this.

My guess(tm) is the IQ-X lights require the peak AC voltage
(6VAC * 1.414 = 8.5V) to operate at full brightness or the charging
current causes a voltage drop to below the IQ-X operating point. The
Eyc might have a similar problem.

But how about a new lamp and some real circuit?
http://tandem-fahren.de/Mitglieder/Framstag/LED/Wollmilchsau/


Google translate did a good job of translating the German into
English. I can't resist looking at the circuit but have only 15
minutes.

Looks like you may have confirmed my low voltage theory:
The Busch + Müller IQ-X E that was evaluated first turned
out to be unusable in the dynamo emergency mode:
up to 20 km / h it remains quite dark and above it
flickers at approx. 1 Hz.
Congrats, you created a relaxation oscillator.

- I don't see an over or under voltage protection (battery management
system) for the LiIon cells on the schematic. However, there's one in
the photo of the red 18650 cells and mentioned in the text. However,
the BMS mentioned in the text is not available in 2S.

- If the red colored 18650 cells in the photo are from "GTL", I have a
few and they are junk. The Samsung cells are much better.

- I don't see the usual resistive divider and timing capacitors on the
555 chip (U2).

- Do you have a LUX meter? If so, I have a lumens measuring
experiment I would like to have you try. Details later.

Thanks, good luck, and I'll be back with more tomorrow.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #10  
Old March 30th 21, 01:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 441
Default Eyc headlight problem

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:23:28 +0200, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

But again, thanks. (I'm hoping that on the bench, powering this with a
6VDC battery should be as valid as powering it with a dynamo.)


Not the AC-Eyc, RTFM.


That was my suggestion. I assumed that anything with a bridge
rectifier on the AC input would also run on DC.


It's tempting, I know.

But how about a new lamp and some real circuit?
http://tandem-fahren.de/Mitglieder/Framstag/LED/Wollmilchsau/


Google translate did a good job of translating the German into
English. I can't resist looking at the circuit but have only 15
minutes.

Looks like you may have confirmed my low voltage theory:


Hold on, Jeff, I'm sorry for the little misunderstanding. I only linked to
Ulli Horlacher's latest work there, presented at de.rec.fahrrad on Fri, 26
Mar 2021 08:06:31 +0000 (UTC). Actually, I do not even agree with the
concept of basing one's entire front lighting on one, single beam lamp,
however expensive and reliable it may be.
 




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