A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Douglas Vector



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 5th 21, 08:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,264
Default Douglas Vector

The one thing holding up the construction of the Vector is the headset. This should be delivered this afternoon. I have an offer for the Emonda and if that goes I can move the Felt over onto that rack until the parts come in to finish it.

With the workstand empty I can put the Douglas together. I have all of the parts Necessary. The handlebar tape is still on the handlebars including the 10 speed levers. I have the marker and saw to cut the Look threadless steering tube down to the correct size. I have the spacer that would be inserted so that it is a small amount adjustable. I have the bolt on to maintain a straight cut. And the cutter that is normally used on an aluminum steering tube which I can use to mark a perfectly straight marking. When things start coming together it seem seems to be all at once.

After building all of these bikes lately I have come to the conclusion that perhaps Italian threads are better. With British threads the power side can tighten up so much that it requires a dead blow hammer to loosen. In the case of the Italian threads that side can loosen but all it takes is a bit of Locktite thread locking solution to keep it tight. Then you can easily break it without perhaps ruining the cup socket. On the previous Time I had to lock the cup in a vice because it had stuck so tightly that the socket tore out the locks No big deal I suppose since the bearing cups are cheap, but it is time lost for getting parts. The Eddy Merckx only needs time on the workstand to complete. The Chain and the handlebar tape and adjusting the Front Derailleur to the proper position.

There is a weird locking clip on the power side of the Campy crankset. This locks the bearing into the cup I suppose in case the center locking screw which ALSO turns the "normal way" were to come unscrewed. I think that this changed sides on the newer 11 speed crankset so that it won't loosen.

Campy is art and Shimano is engineering. Given the choice I prefer art. After all, this is a bicycle and not a supersonic bomber.



Ads
  #2  
Old April 5th 21, 09:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,606
Default Douglas Vector

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 12:03:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
The one thing holding up the construction of the Vector is the headset. This should be delivered this afternoon. I have an offer for the Emonda and if that goes I can move the Felt over onto that rack until the parts come in to finish it.

With the workstand empty I can put the Douglas together. I have all of the parts Necessary. The handlebar tape is still on the handlebars including the 10 speed levers. I have the marker and saw to cut the Look threadless steering tube down to the correct size. I have the spacer that would be inserted so that it is a small amount adjustable. I have the bolt on to maintain a straight cut. And the cutter that is normally used on an aluminum steering tube which I can use to mark a perfectly straight marking. When things start coming together it seem seems to be all at once.

After building all of these bikes lately I have come to the conclusion that perhaps Italian threads are better. With British threads the power side can tighten up so much that it requires a dead blow hammer to loosen. In the case of the Italian threads that side can loosen but all it takes is a bit of Locktite thread locking solution to keep it tight. Then you can easily break it without perhaps ruining the cup socket. On the previous Time I had to lock the cup in a vice because it had stuck so tightly that the socket tore out the locks No big deal I suppose since the bearing cups are cheap, but it is time lost for getting parts. The Eddy Merckx only needs time on the workstand to complete. The Chain and the handlebar tape and adjusting the Front Derailleur to the proper position.

There is a weird locking clip on the power side of the Campy crankset. This locks the bearing into the cup I suppose in case the center locking screw which ALSO turns the "normal way" were to come unscrewed. I think that this changed sides on the newer 11 speed crankset so that it won't loosen.

Campy is art and Shimano is engineering. Given the choice I prefer art. After all, this is a bicycle and not a supersonic bomber.


I thought you had a Douglas Fusion. What is a Vector? BTW, I've never had a problem unscrewing an English/ISO BB. I've had italian BBs unscrew on me.. If given the choice, it will always be ISO.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #3  
Old April 5th 21, 09:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,264
Default Douglas Vector

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 1:11:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 12:03:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
The one thing holding up the construction of the Vector is the headset. This should be delivered this afternoon. I have an offer for the Emonda and if that goes I can move the Felt over onto that rack until the parts come in to finish it.

With the workstand empty I can put the Douglas together. I have all of the parts Necessary. The handlebar tape is still on the handlebars including the 10 speed levers. I have the marker and saw to cut the Look threadless steering tube down to the correct size. I have the spacer that would be inserted so that it is a small amount adjustable. I have the bolt on to maintain a straight cut. And the cutter that is normally used on an aluminum steering tube which I can use to mark a perfectly straight marking. When things start coming together it seem seems to be all at once.

After building all of these bikes lately I have come to the conclusion that perhaps Italian threads are better. With British threads the power side can tighten up so much that it requires a dead blow hammer to loosen. In the case of the Italian threads that side can loosen but all it takes is a bit of Locktite thread locking solution to keep it tight. Then you can easily break it without perhaps ruining the cup socket. On the previous Time I had to lock the cup in a vice because it had stuck so tightly that the socket tore out the locks No big deal I suppose since the bearing cups are cheap, but it is time lost for getting parts. The Eddy Merckx only needs time on the workstand to complete. The Chain and the handlebar tape and adjusting the Front Derailleur to the proper position.

There is a weird locking clip on the power side of the Campy crankset. This locks the bearing into the cup I suppose in case the center locking screw which ALSO turns the "normal way" were to come unscrewed. I think that this changed sides on the newer 11 speed crankset so that it won't loosen.

Campy is art and Shimano is engineering. Given the choice I prefer art. After all, this is a bicycle and not a supersonic bomber.

I thought you had a Douglas Fusion. What is a Vector? BTW, I've never had a problem unscrewing an English/ISO BB. I've had italian BBs unscrew on me.. If given the choice, it will always be ISO.


I have always had problems getting an English BB off but I used to think that better than having an Italian BB come off by itself. Perhaps my latest revelation has to do with my memory but I did have Locktite up on the shelf and suspect that I used to use it on Italian threaded BB's. I suspect I never needed it on Italian square taper BB's I still have 4 or 5 of them on the shelf. 3 of them are Record.

No, the Douglas is a Vector It has both a carbon B-stay and carbon chain stays. I was a little worried that you couldn't fit a 28 mm tire in but I tried one and it fit fine.
  #4  
Old April 5th 21, 11:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,264
Default Douglas Vector

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 1:27:39 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 1:11:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 12:03:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
The one thing holding up the construction of the Vector is the headset. This should be delivered this afternoon. I have an offer for the Emonda and if that goes I can move the Felt over onto that rack until the parts come in to finish it.

With the workstand empty I can put the Douglas together. I have all of the parts Necessary. The handlebar tape is still on the handlebars including the 10 speed levers. I have the marker and saw to cut the Look threadless steering tube down to the correct size. I have the spacer that would be inserted so that it is a small amount adjustable. I have the bolt on to maintain a straight cut. And the cutter that is normally used on an aluminum steering tube which I can use to mark a perfectly straight marking. When things start coming together it seem seems to be all at once.

After building all of these bikes lately I have come to the conclusion that perhaps Italian threads are better. With British threads the power side can tighten up so much that it requires a dead blow hammer to loosen. In the case of the Italian threads that side can loosen but all it takes is a bit of Locktite thread locking solution to keep it tight. Then you can easily break it without perhaps ruining the cup socket. On the previous Time I had to lock the cup in a vice because it had stuck so tightly that the socket tore out the locks No big deal I suppose since the bearing cups are cheap, but it is time lost for getting parts. The Eddy Merckx only needs time on the workstand to complete. The Chain and the handlebar tape and adjusting the Front Derailleur to the proper position.

There is a weird locking clip on the power side of the Campy crankset.. This locks the bearing into the cup I suppose in case the center locking screw which ALSO turns the "normal way" were to come unscrewed. I think that this changed sides on the newer 11 speed crankset so that it won't loosen..

Campy is art and Shimano is engineering. Given the choice I prefer art. After all, this is a bicycle and not a supersonic bomber.

I thought you had a Douglas Fusion. What is a Vector? BTW, I've never had a problem unscrewing an English/ISO BB. I've had italian BBs unscrew on me. If given the choice, it will always be ISO.

I have always had problems getting an English BB off but I used to think that better than having an Italian BB come off by itself. Perhaps my latest revelation has to do with my memory but I did have Locktite up on the shelf and suspect that I used to use it on Italian threaded BB's. I suspect I never needed it on Italian square taper BB's I still have 4 or 5 of them on the shelf. 3 of them are Record.

No, the Douglas is a Vector It has both a carbon B-stay and carbon chain stays. I was a little worried that you couldn't fit a 28 mm tire in but I tried one and it fit fine.

Jay, the headset for my Douglas is absolutely NOT the standard hidden headset. It requires a Cane Creek 40 series headset which is not a week off. And I have to get the bottom FSA bottom headset race removed. It appears that the Cane Creek is not a press in but just drops right in and is held in place without motion by the pressure of the top cap.
  #5  
Old April 6th 21, 12:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,264
Default Douglas Vector

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:

Jay, the headset for my Douglas is absolutely NOT the standard hidden headset. It requires a Cane Creek 40 series headset which is not a week off. And I have to get the bottom FSA bottom headset race removed. It appears that the Cane Creek is not a press in but just drops right in and is held in place without motion by the pressure of the top cap.


I would not have had all of these problems is Colorado Cyclist had answered their emails to both their service center and sales.
  #6  
Old April 6th 21, 01:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,606
Default Douglas Vector

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 4:04:08 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:

Jay, the headset for my Douglas is absolutely NOT the standard hidden headset. It requires a Cane Creek 40 series headset which is not a week off. And I have to get the bottom FSA bottom headset race removed. It appears that the Cane Creek is not a press in but just drops right in and is held in place without motion by the pressure of the top cap.

I would not have had all of these problems is Colorado Cyclist had answered their emails to both their service center and sales.


Down the rabbit hole again. First, quit using all the wrong terms like "flush mount" or "hidden headset." Those are all wrong and don't follow modern designations. There is no standard "hidden headset." Second, the Cane Creek 40 series can be external (EC) internal orZero Stack (ZS), integrated (IS), hybrid, etc., etc. https://canecreek.com/product/forty/ Look at the dropdown menu. The series number tells you nothing about your headset type.. It's just a mid-fi product line.

Next, are there cups pressed into your frame? Please answer yes or no.
Does it look like the middle one: https://bike.bikegremlin.com/wp-cont...eadset-cup.jpg Have you been measuring to the inside of the cup or to the actual wall of the headtube? If so, WTF?

If you DO NOT have cups pressed into your frame, and you properly measured the upper headtube bore at 41mm, then that CONFIRMS an IS41 internal headset -- that and a milled-in bearing seat and the fact the bike is spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. A ZS headset would have an ID of 44mm and not 41mm. At least that covers it for the upper bearing. If you have a hybrid headset, you could have a ZS lower bearing -- there could be a cup pressed in there that would have an ID of 41mm. The pictures I posted previous of the Fusion did NOT have a ZS lower because there was no visible cup shoulder. But if the Vector has a lower, pressed in, flush mounted ZS cup, then you have a hybrid headset and need to buy one of those.

This would be a five minute inspection in a bike shop -- or a five minute diagnosis on this NG if you didn't leak cryptic information and posted some pictures -- maybe with some calipers across the bore of the HT and looking down the bore.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #7  
Old April 6th 21, 04:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,264
Default Douglas Vector

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 5:44:42 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 4:04:08 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:

Jay, the headset for my Douglas is absolutely NOT the standard hidden headset. It requires a Cane Creek 40 series headset which is not a week off. And I have to get the bottom FSA bottom headset race removed. It appears that the Cane Creek is not a press in but just drops right in and is held in place without motion by the pressure of the top cap.

I would not have had all of these problems is Colorado Cyclist had answered their emails to both their service center and sales.

Down the rabbit hole again. First, quit using all the wrong terms like "flush mount" or "hidden headset." Those are all wrong and don't follow modern designations. There is no standard "hidden headset." Second, the Cane Creek 40 series can be external (EC) internal orZero Stack (ZS), integrated (IS), hybrid, etc., etc. https://canecreek.com/product/forty/ Look at the dropdown menu. The series number tells you nothing about your headset type. It's just a mid-fi product line.

Next, are there cups pressed into your frame? Please answer yes or no.
Does it look like the middle one: https://bike.bikegremlin.com/wp-cont...eadset-cup.jpg Have you been measuring to the inside of the cup or to the actual wall of the headtube? If so, WTF?

If you DO NOT have cups pressed into your frame, and you properly measured the upper headtube bore at 41mm, then that CONFIRMS an IS41 internal headset -- that and a milled-in bearing seat and the fact the bike is spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. A ZS headset would have an ID of 44mm and not 41mm. At least that covers it for the upper bearing. If you have a hybrid headset, you could have a ZS lower bearing -- there could be a cup pressed in there that would have an ID of 41mm. The pictures I posted previous of the Fusion did NOT have a ZS lower because there was no visible cup shoulder. But if the Vector has a lower, pressed in, flush mounted ZS cup, then you have a hybrid headset and need to buy one of those.

This would be a five minute inspection in a bike shop -- or a five minute diagnosis on this NG if you didn't leak cryptic information and posted some pictures -- maybe with some calipers across the bore of the HT and looking down the bore.


Jay, if you don't like my terminology that's just too bad. The bike shop who is going to remove that unnecessary fork race called is a flush mount. Why don't you complain to him? After all, he was only the 7-11 team mechanic.

Why are you suddenly pretending that somehow I chose the incorrect headset when I gave ALL of the correct measurements and you said that the SAME headset you use on the Specialized would work?

Again, I CALLED Colorado Cyclist after they would not respond to either the sales or service emails and they did not tell me the correct part number, they only said that they do not carry "that part" in stock.

I explained in great detail the diameter and depth of the recesses in the headtube for the headset and then was stupid enough to take your advice rather than just going up to Robby and putting up with his bull**** of making an appointment, walking up to a locked door and then texting him to let me in and always, always wear a mask because his life depends upon it.
  #8  
Old April 6th 21, 04:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,606
Default Douglas Vector

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:09:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 5:44:42 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 4:04:08 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:

Jay, the headset for my Douglas is absolutely NOT the standard hidden headset. It requires a Cane Creek 40 series headset which is not a week off. And I have to get the bottom FSA bottom headset race removed. It appears that the Cane Creek is not a press in but just drops right in and is held in place without motion by the pressure of the top cap.
I would not have had all of these problems is Colorado Cyclist had answered their emails to both their service center and sales.

Down the rabbit hole again. First, quit using all the wrong terms like "flush mount" or "hidden headset." Those are all wrong and don't follow modern designations. There is no standard "hidden headset." Second, the Cane Creek 40 series can be external (EC) internal orZero Stack (ZS), integrated (IS), hybrid, etc., etc. https://canecreek.com/product/forty/ Look at the dropdown menu. The series number tells you nothing about your headset type. It's just a mid-fi product line.

Next, are there cups pressed into your frame? Please answer yes or no.
Does it look like the middle one: https://bike.bikegremlin.com/wp-cont...eadset-cup.jpg Have you been measuring to the inside of the cup or to the actual wall of the headtube? If so, WTF?

If you DO NOT have cups pressed into your frame, and you properly measured the upper headtube bore at 41mm, then that CONFIRMS an IS41 internal headset -- that and a milled-in bearing seat and the fact the bike is spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. A ZS headset would have an ID of 44mm and not 41mm. At least that covers it for the upper bearing. If you have a hybrid headset, you could have a ZS lower bearing -- there could be a cup pressed in there that would have an ID of 41mm. The pictures I posted previous of the Fusion did NOT have a ZS lower because there was no visible cup shoulder. But if the Vector has a lower, pressed in, flush mounted ZS cup, then you have a hybrid headset and need to buy one of those.

This would be a five minute inspection in a bike shop -- or a five minute diagnosis on this NG if you didn't leak cryptic information and posted some pictures -- maybe with some calipers across the bore of the HT and looking down the bore.

Jay, if you don't like my terminology that's just too bad. The bike shop who is going to remove that unnecessary fork race called is a flush mount. Why don't you complain to him? After all, he was only the 7-11 team mechanic.


Great. He can work on historical bikes. And if he is so great, he should be able to order you a headset in five minutes. Its a f****** integrated headset, and your options are limited.

Why are you suddenly pretending that somehow I chose the incorrect headset when I gave ALL of the correct measurements and you said that the SAME headset you use on the Specialized would work?


No, and you still haven't answered my questions -- but Specialized typically uses a Campy standard IS42. I told you you need an IS41, which is PROBABLY correct -- but we'll never know because you crab walk every time someone tries to get a straight answer from you. So, I'm giving up on trying to help. For all I know, your frame could have ZS cups left in it or have some other problem. We'll never know.

Again, I CALLED Colorado Cyclist after they would not respond to either the sales or service emails and they did not tell me the correct part number, they only said that they do not carry "that part" in stock.


Why would Colorado Cyclist care about dealing with some guy who bought a bike that they quit re-selling more than a decade ago? The sales people were probably in grade school when that POS was made.

I explained in great detail the diameter and depth of the recesses in the headtube for the headset and then was stupid enough to take your advice rather than just going up to Robby and putting up with his bull**** of making an appointment, walking up to a locked door and then texting him to let me in and always, always wear a mask because his life depends upon it.


You explained the diameter but not whether there were cups in the frame. If it has a 41mm ID/bore -- and assuming your measurement is correct -- it is an IS41 IF the bike was spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. Just like I said. And if it is not, then what is it? YOU STILL HAVE NOT SAID WHAT KIND OF HEADSET ROBBY SAYS YOU HAVE. Why is it always hide the ball with your stupid projects?

In the time it takes you to build one of these POS bikes, I could build six bikes, wax my skis and maybe put moss kill on the roof -- and take a vacation to the Bahamas. It's staggering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJIj...DoorIntoSummer

-- Jay Beattie.




  #9  
Old April 6th 21, 05:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,264
Default Douglas Vector

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:54:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:09:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 5:44:42 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 4:04:08 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:

Jay, the headset for my Douglas is absolutely NOT the standard hidden headset. It requires a Cane Creek 40 series headset which is not a week off. And I have to get the bottom FSA bottom headset race removed. It appears that the Cane Creek is not a press in but just drops right in and is held in place without motion by the pressure of the top cap.
I would not have had all of these problems is Colorado Cyclist had answered their emails to both their service center and sales.
Down the rabbit hole again. First, quit using all the wrong terms like "flush mount" or "hidden headset." Those are all wrong and don't follow modern designations. There is no standard "hidden headset." Second, the Cane Creek 40 series can be external (EC) internal orZero Stack (ZS), integrated (IS), hybrid, etc., etc. https://canecreek.com/product/forty/ Look at the dropdown menu. The series number tells you nothing about your headset type.. It's just a mid-fi product line.

Next, are there cups pressed into your frame? Please answer yes or no..
Does it look like the middle one: https://bike.bikegremlin.com/wp-cont...eadset-cup.jpg Have you been measuring to the inside of the cup or to the actual wall of the headtube? If so, WTF?

If you DO NOT have cups pressed into your frame, and you properly measured the upper headtube bore at 41mm, then that CONFIRMS an IS41 internal headset -- that and a milled-in bearing seat and the fact the bike is spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. A ZS headset would have an ID of 44mm and not 41mm. At least that covers it for the upper bearing. If you have a hybrid headset, you could have a ZS lower bearing -- there could be a cup pressed in there that would have an ID of 41mm. The pictures I posted previous of the Fusion did NOT have a ZS lower because there was no visible cup shoulder. But if the Vector has a lower, pressed in, flush mounted ZS cup, then you have a hybrid headset and need to buy one of those.

This would be a five minute inspection in a bike shop -- or a five minute diagnosis on this NG if you didn't leak cryptic information and posted some pictures -- maybe with some calipers across the bore of the HT and looking down the bore.

Jay, if you don't like my terminology that's just too bad. The bike shop who is going to remove that unnecessary fork race called is a flush mount.. Why don't you complain to him? After all, he was only the 7-11 team mechanic.

Great. He can work on historical bikes. And if he is so great, he should be able to order you a headset in five minutes. Its a f****** integrated headset, and your options are limited.
Why are you suddenly pretending that somehow I chose the incorrect headset when I gave ALL of the correct measurements and you said that the SAME headset you use on the Specialized would work?

No, and you still haven't answered my questions -- but Specialized typically uses a Campy standard IS42. I told you you need an IS41, which is PROBABLY correct -- but we'll never know because you crab walk every time someone tries to get a straight answer from you. So, I'm giving up on trying to help. For all I know, your frame could have ZS cups left in it or have some other problem. We'll never know.
Again, I CALLED Colorado Cyclist after they would not respond to either the sales or service emails and they did not tell me the correct part number, they only said that they do not carry "that part" in stock.

Why would Colorado Cyclist care about dealing with some guy who bought a bike that they quit re-selling more than a decade ago? The sales people were probably in grade school when that POS was made.
I explained in great detail the diameter and depth of the recesses in the headtube for the headset and then was stupid enough to take your advice rather than just going up to Robby and putting up with his bull**** of making an appointment, walking up to a locked door and then texting him to let me in and always, always wear a mask because his life depends upon it.

You explained the diameter but not whether there were cups in the frame. If it has a 41mm ID/bore -- and assuming your measurement is correct -- it is an IS41 IF the bike was spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. Just like I said. And if it is not, then what is it? YOU STILL HAVE NOT SAID WHAT KIND OF HEADSET ROBBY SAYS YOU HAVE. Why is it always hide the ball with your stupid projects?

In the time it takes you to build one of these POS bikes, I could build six bikes, wax my skis and maybe put moss kill on the roof -- and take a vacation to the Bahamas. It's staggering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJIj...DoorIntoSummer


Jay, I'm not blaming you for making a mistake so quit acting like I am. I'm just warning you not to jump to conclusions and give advice when you don't know what's going on. I should not have taken advice from you. I specifically SAID that there were no cups inside of the bore but only that there was a layout to insert a headset. I gave the 41 mm inside diameter and you told me that your type of headset would work. In fact it is 44 mm. I was the one that assumed that means the bearing area and not the OD. I really don't need you lawyering this when it is entirely unnecessary.

I don't give a **** about when Colorado Cyclist people were born. If THEY made and sold a product I would at least expect them to be able to give me a part number of a unique part. Robbie has NOT even seen the bike so how could he say what part it uses? I am assuming that the Cane Creek IS41 is the correct part because of the measurements that they give for it.
  #10  
Old April 6th 21, 05:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,606
Default Douglas Vector

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 9:13:15 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:54:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:09:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 5:44:42 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 4:04:08 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 3:49:56 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:

Jay, the headset for my Douglas is absolutely NOT the standard hidden headset. It requires a Cane Creek 40 series headset which is not a week off. And I have to get the bottom FSA bottom headset race removed. It appears that the Cane Creek is not a press in but just drops right in and is held in place without motion by the pressure of the top cap.
I would not have had all of these problems is Colorado Cyclist had answered their emails to both their service center and sales.
Down the rabbit hole again. First, quit using all the wrong terms like "flush mount" or "hidden headset." Those are all wrong and don't follow modern designations. There is no standard "hidden headset." Second, the Cane Creek 40 series can be external (EC) internal orZero Stack (ZS), integrated (IS), hybrid, etc., etc. https://canecreek.com/product/forty/ Look at the dropdown menu. The series number tells you nothing about your headset type. It's just a mid-fi product line.

Next, are there cups pressed into your frame? Please answer yes or no.
Does it look like the middle one: https://bike.bikegremlin.com/wp-cont...eadset-cup.jpg Have you been measuring to the inside of the cup or to the actual wall of the headtube? If so, WTF?

If you DO NOT have cups pressed into your frame, and you properly measured the upper headtube bore at 41mm, then that CONFIRMS an IS41 internal headset -- that and a milled-in bearing seat and the fact the bike is spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. A ZS headset would have an ID of 44mm and not 41mm. At least that covers it for the upper bearing. If you have a hybrid headset, you could have a ZS lower bearing -- there could be a cup pressed in there that would have an ID of 41mm. The pictures I posted previous of the Fusion did NOT have a ZS lower because there was no visible cup shoulder. But if the Vector has a lower, pressed in, flush mounted ZS cup, then you have a hybrid headset and need to buy one of those.

This would be a five minute inspection in a bike shop -- or a five minute diagnosis on this NG if you didn't leak cryptic information and posted some pictures -- maybe with some calipers across the bore of the HT and looking down the bore.
Jay, if you don't like my terminology that's just too bad. The bike shop who is going to remove that unnecessary fork race called is a flush mount. Why don't you complain to him? After all, he was only the 7-11 team mechanic.

Great. He can work on historical bikes. And if he is so great, he should be able to order you a headset in five minutes. Its a f****** integrated headset, and your options are limited.
Why are you suddenly pretending that somehow I chose the incorrect headset when I gave ALL of the correct measurements and you said that the SAME headset you use on the Specialized would work?

No, and you still haven't answered my questions -- but Specialized typically uses a Campy standard IS42. I told you you need an IS41, which is PROBABLY correct -- but we'll never know because you crab walk every time someone tries to get a straight answer from you. So, I'm giving up on trying to help. For all I know, your frame could have ZS cups left in it or have some other problem. We'll never know.
Again, I CALLED Colorado Cyclist after they would not respond to either the sales or service emails and they did not tell me the correct part number, they only said that they do not carry "that part" in stock.

Why would Colorado Cyclist care about dealing with some guy who bought a bike that they quit re-selling more than a decade ago? The sales people were probably in grade school when that POS was made.
I explained in great detail the diameter and depth of the recesses in the headtube for the headset and then was stupid enough to take your advice rather than just going up to Robby and putting up with his bull**** of making an appointment, walking up to a locked door and then texting him to let me in and always, always wear a mask because his life depends upon it.

You explained the diameter but not whether there were cups in the frame.. If it has a 41mm ID/bore -- and assuming your measurement is correct -- it is an IS41 IF the bike was spec'd with a 1 1/8" fork. Just like I said. And if it is not, then what is it? YOU STILL HAVE NOT SAID WHAT KIND OF HEADSET ROBBY SAYS YOU HAVE. Why is it always hide the ball with your stupid projects?

In the time it takes you to build one of these POS bikes, I could build six bikes, wax my skis and maybe put moss kill on the roof -- and take a vacation to the Bahamas. It's staggering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJIj...DoorIntoSummer

Jay, I'm not blaming you for making a mistake so quit acting like I am. I'm just warning you not to jump to conclusions and give advice when you don't know what's going on. I should not have taken advice from you. I specifically SAID that there were no cups inside of the bore but only that there was a layout to insert a headset. I gave the 41 mm inside diameter and you told me that your type of headset would work. In fact it is 44 mm. I was the one that assumed that means the bearing area and not the OD. I really don't need you lawyering this when it is entirely unnecessary.


What is 44mm? Where did that number come from? What are you taking about? There is NO 44mm dimension with a IS41 headset. 44mm is the dimension for a 1 1/8" ZS headset. I have been going on and on about IS41 headsets -- I never, ever told you to get a ZS with a 44mm dimension. Are you now telling me that the bike takes a ZS headset?

I don't give a **** about when Colorado Cyclist people were born. If THEY made and sold a product I would at least expect them to be able to give me a part number of a unique part. Robbie has NOT even seen the bike so how could he say what part it uses? I am assuming that the Cane Creek IS41 is the correct part because of the measurements that they give for it.


Dream on. When was that bike made? 2003? That is ancient history for an internet seller. There was no Douglas company with customer service and a website with parts numbers. It was a f***** commodity. Try going to Bikes Direct and asking for a headset for a 2003 Motobecane. Same thing. Maybe you can call the company that made it, whoever they may be. Or, gasp, waste some of your precious retirement spare time and go to Robby's shop and put an end to this idiocy.

-- Jay Beattie.




 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oh Douglas! The Medway Handyman[_2_] UK 1 September 6th 10 07:29 AM
Apologies to Douglas Adams... Bugbear Australia 9 February 6th 07 05:58 AM
Douglas Tempo Gel Saddle [email protected] Techniques 2 December 29th 06 11:05 PM
ToB finish in Castle Douglas Simon Brooke UK 5 September 5th 05 12:59 AM
Douglas bikes from Colorado Cyclist BBear505 Techniques 14 November 30th 03 03:15 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2021 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.