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GD cable derailleurs!



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 7th 21, 09:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,816
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

A few miles into my evening ride on my
cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me
on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill
and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11.
(...)


There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits
called Power Cordz:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/
Their web site at:
http://www.powercordz.com
is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or
product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html
https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/

If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can
possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such
as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema,
Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the
standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid
fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence
in the idea.

Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech.

"Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid
Fiber"
https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber

Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers"
https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Ads
  #12  
Old April 8th 21, 03:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,134
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On 8/4/21 1:19 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/7/2021 12:18 AM, James wrote:
On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my
wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and
snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11.* Great.* In the middle of a
9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one.
I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and
started over.* Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike.
The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable
Di2.

The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a
trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take
out the door and grab the broken cable and end.* No more fishing it
out of the lever.


I hadn't heard about that. It sounds like a nice improvement.


This is the second time in 20 years on STI that
I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in
the middle of a tour.* I had a spare.


I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using
cable actuated gears and brakes.


Do you replace them regularly? Could that be why?


What is regularly? I usually wait until the outer plastic is cracked
and rust is showing, then wait until the next time I replace handlebar
tape and replace cables and tape at the same time. Probably every 2-3
years or more? The tape gets replaced more often because I usually end
up wearing a hole in it somewhere.

But I've also learned to notice the first strands of the shift cable
breaking at the bar end control. They stick out and poke my finger, a
nice early warning system.


Once I had gear change problems and it turned out to be a couple of
broken strands in the Campagnolo Ergo lever body. I didn't need to
unscrew a secret trapdoor to extract the cable. I think Campagnolo
levers are much easier to work on. You can disassemble, clean and
reassemble them fairly easily.

--
JS

  #13  
Old April 8th 21, 03:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,618
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 7:10:23 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 8/4/21 1:19 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/7/2021 12:18 AM, James wrote:
On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my
wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and
snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. Great. In the middle of a
9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one.
I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and
started over. Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike.
The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable
Di2.

The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a
trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take
out the door and grab the broken cable and end. No more fishing it
out of the lever.


I hadn't heard about that. It sounds like a nice improvement.


This is the second time in 20 years on STI that
I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in
the middle of a tour. I had a spare.


I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using
cable actuated gears and brakes.


Do you replace them regularly? Could that be why?

What is regularly? I usually wait until the outer plastic is cracked
and rust is showing, then wait until the next time I replace handlebar
tape and replace cables and tape at the same time. Probably every 2-3
years or more? The tape gets replaced more often because I usually end
up wearing a hole in it somewhere.
But I've also learned to notice the first strands of the shift cable
breaking at the bar end control. They stick out and poke my finger, a
nice early warning system.

Once I had gear change problems and it turned out to be a couple of
broken strands in the Campagnolo Ergo lever body. I didn't need to
unscrew a secret trapdoor to extract the cable. I think Campagnolo
levers are much easier to work on. You can disassemble, clean and
reassemble them fairly easily.


I'm told the most recent Campy levers are not rebuildable -- or they are rebuildable, but the parts are not available. One or the other. My son had a left STI lever go dead on a ride, and it was not fixable -- or I couldn't fix it. That's the only STI lever I've had go belly up in almost 30 years.. Every other issue I've resolved with a WD40 flush and lubrication. The new trap door feature gives you good access to the innards for cleaning and lubricating. It's not the same as being rebuildable, but it is an improvement.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #14  
Old April 8th 21, 01:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 342
Default GD cable derailleurs!

James wrote:
On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my
wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and
snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. Great. In the middle of a
9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one.
I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and
started over. Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike.
The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable
Di2.

The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a
trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take
out the door and grab the broken cable and end. No more fishing it
out of the lever. This is the second time in 20 years on STI that
I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in
the middle of a tour. I had a spare.


I guess when you've been riding the Di2 setup for the same time &
distance you'll be able to make a more reasonable comparison.

I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using
cable actuated gears and brakes.

I tend to have to replace as the cable gets sticky, and after a while can’t
be cleaned/lubed into life.

Don’t think I’ve ever snapped a cable. Mind you until this year had never
snapped a hanger...

Roger Merriman

  #15  
Old April 8th 21, 01:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,314
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my
cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me
on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill
and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11.
(...)


There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits
called Power Cordz:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/
Their web site at:
http://www.powercordz.com
is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or
product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html
https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/

If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can
possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such
as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema,
Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the
standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid
fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence
in the idea.

Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech.

"Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid
Fiber"
https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber

Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers"
https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html


Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how would you expect to do that? As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands. Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material.
  #16  
Old April 8th 21, 01:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,314
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:32:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
James wrote:
On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my
wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and
snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. Great. In the middle of a
9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one.
I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and
started over. Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike.
The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable
Di2.

The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a
trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take
out the door and grab the broken cable and end. No more fishing it
out of the lever. This is the second time in 20 years on STI that
I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in
the middle of a tour. I had a spare.


I guess when you've been riding the Di2 setup for the same time &
distance you'll be able to make a more reasonable comparison.

I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using
cable actuated gears and brakes.

I tend to have to replace as the cable gets sticky, and after a while can’t
be cleaned/lubed into life.

Don’t think I’ve ever snapped a cable. Mind you until this year had never
snapped a hanger...


Now that they are making replaceable hangers the aluminum material is of the wrong alloy and is very brittle. I don't think that this is to allow break away in case of a crash or to make people buy more of them but simply that alloy is just cheaper than hell. It appears to be almost pure aluminum.
  #17  
Old April 8th 21, 03:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,041
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On 4/8/2021 7:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my
cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me
on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill
and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11.
(...)


There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits
called Power Cordz:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/
Their web site at:
http://www.powercordz.com
is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or
product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html
https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/

If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can
possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such
as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema,
Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the
standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid
fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence
in the idea.

Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech.

"Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid
Fiber"
https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber

Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers"
https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html


Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how would you expect to do that? As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands. Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material.


We use a coated Kevlar cord with ceramic magnet set to
thread wires through modern internal route frames. Passing
that through casing would not seem a barrier.

The failure mode of a steel or stainless steel gear wire is
fraying at the capstan and I doubt Kevlar/Aramid would give
any better life, likely worse.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #18  
Old April 8th 21, 04:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,618
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 7:00:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/8/2021 7:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my
cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me
on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill
and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11.
(...)

There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits
called Power Cordz:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/
Their web site at:
http://www.powercordz.com
is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or
product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html
https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/

If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can
possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such
as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema,
Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the
standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid
fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence
in the idea.

Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech.

"Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid
Fiber"
https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber

Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers"
https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html


Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how would you expect to do that? As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands. Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material.

We use a coated Kevlar cord with ceramic magnet set to
thread wires through modern internal route frames. Passing
that through casing would not seem a barrier.

The failure mode of a steel or stainless steel gear wire is
fraying at the capstan and I doubt Kevlar/Aramid would give
any better life, likely worse.


The Trek uses a cable stop/port with entry holes the diameter of inner-wire liner, and in fact a liner with a flared end is placed in the hole. https://tinyurl.com/ecv585cj What this means is that you can't put the old and new cable ends together with a crimp-cable end and then pull the new cable through -- unless you remove the port and put the new cable through and crimp it to the old cable after the port. The good news is that its not hard to locate the cable if you just feed it into the frame through the port. There is a window at the bottom of the DT, and you just grab the cable with a hook. I'm re-doing both shift and a brake cable just because. And some new brake pads.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #19  
Old April 8th 21, 06:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,816
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:43:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how
would you expect to do that?


Two ways. Pull or push. For pull, I would run a metal wire through
the cable housing, attach to Kevlar fiber with glue, and pull on the
metal wire. For push, I would glue a wad of cotton to form a shuttle
on the end of the Kevlar fiber. A conical dart shape should work.
Insert the shuttle into the cable housing and blow it through housing
using compressed air.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_jetting

As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when
stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a
mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he
overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands.


We all don't know that. You might, but we don't.

Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at
pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material.


Pressure? Stainless is excellent in compression (also known as
pressure) but might have problems in tension or torsion.

Broken molecular bonds? Lots of ways to do that but none seem to be
found in a brake cable:
https://www.google.com/search?q=break+molecular+bonds
In general, one needs to input sufficient energy to beak the molecular
bond, usually forming ions or different molecules. Maybe Jay exposes
his brake cables to ionizing radiation, which is known to break
molecular bonds. Perhaps you could re-write your description of metal
fatigue failure in a manner expected from a "real engineer"?

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #20  
Old April 8th 21, 07:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,314
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 10:49:48 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:43:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how
would you expect to do that?

Two ways. Pull or push. For pull, I would run a metal wire through
the cable housing, attach to Kevlar fiber with glue, and pull on the
metal wire. For push, I would glue a wad of cotton to form a shuttle
on the end of the Kevlar fiber. A conical dart shape should work.
Insert the shuttle into the cable housing and blow it through housing
using compressed air.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_jetting
As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when
stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a
mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he
overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands.

We all don't know that. You might, but we don't.
Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at
pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material.

Pressure? Stainless is excellent in compression (also known as
pressure) but might have problems in tension or torsion.

Broken molecular bonds? Lots of ways to do that but none seem to be
found in a brake cable:
https://www.google.com/search?q=break+molecular+bonds
In general, one needs to input sufficient energy to beak the molecular
bond, usually forming ions or different molecules. Maybe Jay exposes
his brake cables to ionizing radiation, which is known to break
molecular bonds. Perhaps you could re-write your description of metal
fatigue failure in a manner expected from a "real engineer"?


People who pretend to be engineers are tiring. You have already told us that you only rarely ride a bicycle anymore so perhaps you might want to explain what you're even doing on this group?
 




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