A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

New 1920s Technology... Today!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 8th 21, 04:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,041
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

https://pedalcell.com/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ads
  #2  
Old April 8th 21, 07:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,165
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On 4/8/2021 11:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://pedalcell.com/


I note that when touting their supercapacitor, they say:

"Raw Power
"Volatile, Unsafe"

Heavens! I wouldn't want to be unsafe! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #3  
Old April 8th 21, 08:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 814
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On 4/8/2021 8:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://pedalcell.com/

At least they have the drive wheel run on the rim, not the tire. An
idea I think Frank has used and recommended. But yeah, kinda pathetic
overall.

Mark J.
  #4  
Old April 8th 21, 08:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,364
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On 4/8/2021 8:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://pedalcell.com/



LOL, I especially like the "15-20W of Power Output." Uh yeah, from the
battery, but not from the dynamo. A large-screen smart phone running a
GPS navigation application with the LTE or 5G radio on can exceed the 3
watt output of the dynamo.

$299.99, wow! Before I clicked on the link I guessed $100 since it
should cost about $50. A 3W tire-driven dynamo costs about $6. The
electronics to convert 6-9VAC to 5VDC is about $1. A USB power bank is
about $5. I multiplied the retail cost of the components by 8 and
guessed $100.

Also love how their price comparison uses the most expensive, highest
quality, hub dynamo.

A much better solution is to buy a rechargeable bicycle light that also
functions as a USB power bank and charge that light from a dynamo. Buy
one of these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001507833824.html
(actually it comes in a lot of 5 for $2.81), four 1N5817 diodes, and a
470uF capacitor, and hook it up to a dynamo.



  #5  
Old April 8th 21, 11:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,314
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:05:17 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 4/8/2021 8:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://pedalcell.com/

At least they have the drive wheel run on the rim, not the tire. An
idea I think Frank has used and recommended. But yeah, kinda pathetic
overall.


Hey, my allergies are acting up and I just blew snot all over my keyboard!
  #6  
Old April 9th 21, 01:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,816
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 12:05:13 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 4/8/2021 8:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://pedalcell.com/


At least they have the drive wheel run on the rim, not the tire. An
idea I think Frank has used and recommended. But yeah, kinda pathetic
overall.
Mark J.


Pathetic? The idea doesn't go far enough. That was the dynamo I was
thinking of when I suggested that it be used on disk wheels. The idea
was to move the dynamo along the radius of the disk wheel to adjust
the dynamo's rotational speed and thus obtain a constant output output
voltage at any speed.

Why bicycle stores sell so few dynamos:
http://yehudamoon.com/comic/2017-03-15/


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #7  
Old April 9th 21, 02:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,165
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On 4/8/2021 8:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 12:05:13 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 4/8/2021 8:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://pedalcell.com/


At least they have the drive wheel run on the rim, not the tire. An
idea I think Frank has used and recommended. But yeah, kinda pathetic
overall.
Mark J.


Pathetic? The idea doesn't go far enough. That was the dynamo I was
thinking of when I suggested that it be used on disk wheels. The idea
was to move the dynamo along the radius of the disk wheel to adjust
the dynamo's rotational speed and thus obtain a constant output output
voltage at any speed.

Why bicycle stores sell so few dynamos:
http://yehudamoon.com/comic/2017-03-15/


I miss Yehuda. :-(


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #8  
Old April 9th 21, 07:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,364
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On 4/8/2021 12:05 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 4/8/2021 8:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://pedalcell.com/

At least they have the drive wheel run on the rim, not the tire.


snip

True. And those rim drive dynamos cost a lot more than the tire-driven
dynamos.

But you can buy a new 700c wheel with a 3W hub dynamo (Shimano) for
$125, less than the cost of a rim dynamo. For $275 you can buy a 700c
front wheel with a SP (Shutter Precision) hub dynamo. 20" SP equipped
("Joule") wheels are even less, $120 to $200. but of course you don't
get "Generator Drag Decoupling" (except with the SP dynamo hub that has
that feature).

I suspect that they've sold very few of the "Pedalcell" systems. The
people this is being marketed to probably didn't even pay $299.99 for
their entire bicycle.

The other devices that convert the output of a dynamo to 5VDC for USB
charging are being sold to people that already have a hub dynamo on
their bicycles, see
https://www.cyclingabout.com/list-of-hub-dynamo-power-supplies-for-usb-devices/;
some of the 27 devices they list are dynamo lights that have built-in
USB chargers.

As I stated before, if you really want to have a dynamo charge your
phone, or charge a battery pack, while also having a light that can be
operated from a dynamo, it makes a lot more sense to purchase a
battery-powered headlight with a USB output port, and then charge the
headlight from a dynamo. Many battery-powered headlights can operate
while being charged, though not all of them have this capability. For
under $3 you can buy a module that converts the AC output of the dynamo
to 5VDC.




  #9  
Old April 10th 21, 02:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,364
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On 4/8/2021 5:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Pathetic? The idea doesn't go far enough. That was the dynamo I was
thinking of when I suggested that it be used on disk wheels. The idea
was to move the dynamo along the radius of the disk wheel to adjust
the dynamo's rotational speed and thus obtain a constant output output
voltage at any speed.


A CVT inside the dynamo would be a better design, whether a rim, tire,
or hub. But of course it's really unnecessary to have a constant voltage
out.

There are already dynamo powered lights with a USB port for charging
devices. If someone is really going to spend $300 then they'd be better
off buying a dynamo hub wheel and one of those lights, or a battery
powered light that can be charged and/or operated from a dynamo.

For the latter, I put together a Google Doc document that explains how
to do it
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UVk_yelr5UxrcKqDtGgsHTBVa3eWoUdpqDKhbZSHO_E


  #10  
Old April 10th 21, 04:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,816
Default New 1920s Technology... Today!

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 18:02:40 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/8/2021 5:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Pathetic? The idea doesn't go far enough. That was the dynamo I was
thinking of when I suggested that it be used on disk wheels. The idea
was to move the dynamo along the radius of the disk wheel to adjust
the dynamo's rotational speed and thus obtain a constant output output
voltage at any speed.


A CVT inside the dynamo would be a better design, whether a rim, tire,
or hub. But of course it's really unnecessary to have a constant voltage
out.


I was looking for simplicity. A CVT (continuously variable
transmission) is not a simple device to build into a small dynamo
housing.

There are already dynamo powered lights with a USB port for charging
devices. If someone is really going to spend $300 then they'd be better
off buying a dynamo hub wheel and one of those lights, or a battery
powered light that can be charged and/or operated from a dynamo.

For the latter, I put together a Google Doc document that explains how
to do it
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UVk_yelr5UxrcKqDtGgsHTBVa3eWoUdpqDKhbZSHO_E


Very nice but I screwed up.
The DC output voltage from a bridge is NOT:
DC_out = 1.414 * AC_Vrms_input
More correctly, the DC output is:
DC_out = 0.9 * AC_Vrms_input
For the calcs, see:
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/diode/diode_6.html
For such a low voltage dynamo, the Schottky diode voltage drop should
also be included in the calculations.

Another problem is you're ignoring the original problem(s) and solving
one that was not even mentioned (USB devices).

Jay arbitrarily decided that an 800 lumen light would be nice if it
could be powered by a dynamo. Without questioning the decision to
specify such a high power light, I went into what is necessary to
power an 800 lumen light solely on dynamo power. It was generally
assumed that building a battery operated 800 lumen light, where the
battery is charged by the dynamo, is possible. I later estimated the
percentage of power produced by the typical cyclists at 15 mph using a
commodity 3 watt dynamo light, and a higher power light suitable for
delivering 800 lumens. While there was an increase in drag, it was
within the abilities of most cyclists. All that was needed was a
dynamo that delivered both higher output power at higher efficiency.

I then arbitrarily decided that removing one of the key features of
most bicycle dynamos would offer better efficiency at high RPM. The
early dynamo power lights ran incandescent lamps. These lamps were
very sensitive to over-voltage. Even a little over their rated
maximum power, and the filament would fuse open. The resulting dynamo
included an inductor (saturable reactor) which would reduce the
voltage to the incandescent lamp at high RPM, where the voltage was
highest. This formed a crude and cheap voltage/current regulator and
is responsible for the "flat" voltage and power curve of the dynamo.
What I proposed was to remove the inductors and allow the dynamo to
produce more output power at high RPM. However, Frank offered a good
question. Does this also improve efficiency at high RPM. I assumed
that it does, but I'm not sure and won't know without some testing.

Another item that was mentioned was operating the headlight at low
bicycle speeds, where the dynamo is unable to deliver sufficient
output. This can be in various ways such as a CVT, PWM (pulse width
modulation) light dimmer to reduce the load, switch to fewer LED's,
etc. Of course, a battery/dynamo hybrid will solve the problem as
long as the battery can be recharged, but for now, batteries are not
part of the dynamo problem.

My best guess(tm) is that a higher power dynamo can only work if the
losses are reduced. That means, much higher voltages, no saturable
reactor regulators, very wide input range boost converter on the
input, high efficiency buck converter to drive the LEDs, and high RPM
for high operating frequencies (about 50KHz) so that ferrites can be
used instead of powdered iron. In other words, start from scratch and
design something that will drive a modern LED headlight, not an
adaptation of something designed to drive an ancient incandescent
light bulb.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Technology advances, to where exactly? AMuzi Techniques 25 October 3rd 17 03:57 AM
new light technology AMuzi Techniques 15 March 17th 17 03:05 PM
Yet More Technology John B. Techniques 189 August 24th 15 01:25 AM
RAAM technology [email protected] Racing 5 June 4th 10 12:24 AM
New helmet technology [email protected] Techniques 6 August 3rd 09 09:26 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2021 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.