|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
RBT,
Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. (well some are def sensible). Link to story : http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief : A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? (sarcastic tone) Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
Op 19-2-2010 23:06, bicycle_disciple schreef:
RBT, Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. (well some are def sensible). Link to story : http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief : A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? (sarcastic tone) Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. It is no cleaning issue. Shimano has/had some problems with their chains. They all fail in that manner. I don't know if they sort it out by now. Buy Campy chains ;-) Lou |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
On 19 Feb, 22:06, bicycle_disciple wrote:
RBT, Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. (well some are def sensible). Link to story :http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief : A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. *Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? (sarcastic tone) Possibly do some damage if the soap was really soda and it was left in solution for a couple of days. The correct application will be washing-up detergent solution as it is a little acidic and will help to nuetralise the salt. Then put it in hot oil and boil off the water. Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. I shouldn't really, iI wont use them. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
"bicycle_disciple" wrote in message
... RBT, Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. (well some are def sensible). Link to story : http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief : A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? (sarcastic tone) Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. OK, we sell maybe 100 Shimano 10-speed chains/month. Probably most of them Ultegra. And over the past two years, I've seen maybe two chains fail in the manner shown in the photo (and never seen a chain with multiple cracks, but can't be sure they weren't there because we would be looking primarily at the link that failed and could have missed others). Whatever is going on, it's not universal. The Shimano warning cited says not to use an acid or alkali-based cleaning agent, and yet I presume that's what I've been using for some time (a diluted mix of citrus-based cleaner and extremely-hot water, put into a wide-mouth sports drink bottle, and shaken, not stirred). No issues for me. I would be checking the drivetrain very carefully for worn & twisted teeth, and would like to know more about the type of riding and manner in which the person shifts. But I don't think there's a general issue with these chains or it would have shown up in the shop many, many times. 10-speed (10 in the back) road bikes are the majority of our business. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
On 02/19/2010 05:06 PM, bicycle_disciple wrote:
RBT, Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. (well some are def sensible). Link to story : http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief : A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? (sarcastic tone) Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. How mucky do the roads have to be where having cleaned a chain already by 200km is not inappropriate? I mean, I'm pretty much a neat freak, but I'd have to be riding on salted roads every day to even contemplate that. Normally I'd just wipe down and squirt some loob on it and call it good. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
In article
, bicycle_disciple wrote: RBT, Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. (well some are def sensible). Link to story : http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief : A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? (sarcastic tone) Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-Because-He-Posted-Anonymously stated that Simple Green could weaken bike chains and cause them to crack at the outer plate hole for the pins. IIRC the mechanism was hydrogen embrittlement. I have no way of knowing if this was factually correct or was hot air (hot electrons?). http://velonews.competitor.com/2005/...ical-qa-with-l ennard-zinn-not-so-simple-green-2_9216 Simple Green seems to claim their "Extreme Simple Green" product protects against hydrogen embrittlement: http://industrial.simplegreen.com/in...ts_extreme.php "Extreme Simple Greenšs safety upon aircraft materials and precision cleaning surfaces comes from a combination of proven anti-corrosion agents. A time tested coupling agent allows these to work together to battle corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement. These same qualities make Extreme Simple Green safe to put through pressure washing equipment, rack wash systems, dip tanks and parts washers, without any equipment damage." -- "I wear the cheese, it does not wear me." |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
In article
, bicycle_disciple wrote: Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. Also, they are ridiculously overpriced. $50-75 for a *bike chain*?!? $15 is overpriced already, but bike component marketers have figured out that the bike-buying public wants to *look* tech savvy rather than *be* tech savvy, so they'll buy overpriced goods with lots of technoblather on the packaging. -- "I wear the cheese, it does not wear me." |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
On 19 Feb, 23:49, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 02/19/2010 05:06 PM, bicycle_disciple wrote: RBT, Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. (well some are def sensible). Link to story :http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief : A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. *Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? (sarcastic tone) Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. How mucky do the roads have to be where having cleaned a chain already by 200km is not inappropriate? I mean, I'm pretty much a neat freak, but I'd have to be riding on salted roads every day to even contemplate that. *Normally I'd just wipe down and squirt some loob on it and call it good. Use grease in your chain and dont worry until it squeaks, then whip it off and put on a ready cleaned and greased chain. The grease has to be around the pin and melting it in is an effective method of it getting there. Possibly petroleum jelly may be good in very cold conditions. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
On Feb 19, 7:03*pm, Jobst Brandt wrote:
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. *(well some are defensible). *Link to story :http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief: A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. *Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. *The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. *While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. *Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. *Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. OK, we sell maybe 100 Shimano 10-speed chains/month. *Probably most of them Ultegra. *And over the past two years, I've seen maybe two chains fail in the manner shown in the photo (and never seen a chain with multiple cracks, but can't be sure they weren't there because we would be looking primarily at the link that failed and could have missed others). Whatever is going on, it's not universal. *The Shimano warning cited says not to use an acid or alkali-based cleaning agent, and yet I presume that's what I've been using for some time (a diluted mix of citrus-based cleaner and extremely-hot water, put into a wide-mouth sports drink bottle, and shaken, not stirred). *No issues for me. I would be checking the drivetrain very carefully for worn & twisted teeth, and would like to know more about the type of riding and manner in which the person shifts. *But I don't think there's a general issue with these chains or it would have shown up in the shop many, many times. *10-speed (10 in the back) road bikes are the majority of our business. My experience years ago when Regina was leaving the chain business, someone offered me a stack of chains in those small cardboard boxes. I used one that cracked and failed even though it was the old style with a small pin over-stand on both sides, old roller width and side plate thickness... old heavy derailleur chains of the kind they made for many years reliably. I inspected more of these chains before using them and found they all had crack initiation, probably from improper heat treatment or an improper alloy. *In any event, that was my experience with chain failure and I haven't had any since with Shimano chains, but then I don't use flush side narrow chains for my 7-speed gear clusters. Jobst Brandt Jobst, Thanks for replying. Do you know what heat treatment protocols chains in specific receive? There seems to be this characteristic failure pattern that a majority of people have been noticing, as was shown in the post. http://bit.ly/bauy8g -Ron "Bicycle Disciple" |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Shimano Ultegra Chain Failure
On Feb 19, 7:33*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , *bicycle_disciple wrote: RBT, Where else to ask than the sensible folks here.. (well some are def sensible). Link to story :http://bit.ly/bauy8g In brief : A man broke two Ultegra chains over the course of 700 and 200 kms respectively. *Notice the pictures of the crack formations on the paper-thin links. The debate is on whether the solvent he used to clean the chain had a role to play in the failure. While I can see how acidic solvents may eat up the chain, I'm pretty sure the user told me all he used was some soap and plain hot water to wash away the road salt of the wintry Dutch roads. Could this combo do this much damage to a chain? (sarcastic tone) Is this failure related to cleaning or to a possibly flawed heat treatment during manufacture. Just wondering what you think of today's high performance chains. He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named-Because-He-Posted-Anonymously stated that Simple Green could weaken bike chains and cause them to crack at the outer plate hole for the pins. *IIRC the mechanism was hydrogen embrittlement. *I have no way of knowing if this was factually correct or was hot air (hot electrons?). http://velonews.competitor.com/2005/...ical-qa-with-l ennard-zinn-not-so-simple-green-2_9216 Simple Green seems to claim their "Extreme Simple Green" product protects against hydrogen embrittlement: http://industrial.simplegreen.com/in...ts_extreme.php "Extreme Simple Greenšs safety upon aircraft materials and precision cleaning surfaces comes from a combination of proven anti-corrosion agents. A time tested coupling agent allows these to work together to battle corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement. These same qualities make Extreme Simple Green safe to put through pressure washing equipment, rack wash systems, dip tanks and parts washers, without any equipment damage." -- "I wear the cheese, it does not wear me." What I don't get it is that user never claimed he used Simple Green. Interesting comment from you, nevertheless. But to make me believe that a new chain failed due to cleaning issues in 2 days time will require a lot more, I suppose. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
shimano ultegra 10sp chain with wipperman link | [email protected] | Techniques | 3 | September 30th 06 10:30 PM |
shimano ultegra 10sp chain with wipperman link | [email protected] | Techniques | 1 | September 30th 06 02:19 PM |
KMC 10 Quick Link on Shimano DA or Ultegra 10 Chain? | KnowWhen2HoldemKnowWhen2Foldem | Techniques | 3 | July 18th 06 04:53 AM |
Shimano 10-Speed Ultegra Chain Prone To Spontaneous Disassembly? | A Muzi | Techniques | 0 | January 23rd 06 11:23 AM |
Shimano Ultegra Lever failure - Help | tj | UK | 9 | January 19th 06 01:48 PM |