Tips on carbon fiber WSD bikes?

On 1/4/2011 6:15 PM, wrote:
Jean who? wrote:

I'm looking to replace my old road bike with a carbon fiber model.
My criteria a women's specific design, comfy for all day riding,
smooth riding, light weight, Shimano 105 components, and preferably
with three chainwheels.

Via the web, I've checked out the specs and reviews for following
bikes: Cannondale (Synapse Fem 5), Felt (ZW5), Giant (Avail Advanced
2), Trek (Madrone 3.1WSD), or Specialized (Ruby Elite Apex). I was
hoping y'all might have some insights into these bikes so that I
could minimize driving all over the state (there are no local
dealers for most of these) to do the final fit check-out and test
ride. I don't know how comfort is specified on a web page.

So here goes. Assuming equally good fit and tire size/psi - Do any
of these bikes stand out as more smooth riding? Do any of these
bikes stand out as more comfy for all day long cruising? Does
anyone have any idea how the weights compare for the same size bike?
Thanks for any help trying to trim down my list of potential bikes.

NO! The comfort of a bicycle resides in its wheelbase and tires;
frames and wheels having practically no perceptible elasticity.
Therefore, test ride the bike and see if it fits your body: bars,
pedals, and saddle. You can't ask for more. If you chose a
suspension bicycle, you'll get speed instabilities that you won't
like. Get large enough tires 28-30mm cross section and brakes that
you like. That's where it's at!

Are you saying that all other things being equal, a bike with a CF frame
is not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? That a steel frame is
not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? Or am I misunderstanding you?

On Jan 5, 5:50*am, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 1/4/2011 6:15 PM, wrote:





Jean who? wrote:

I'm looking to replace my old road bike with a carbon fiber model.
My criteria a women's specific design, comfy for all day riding,
smooth riding, light weight, Shimano 105 components, and preferably
with three chainwheels.

Via the web, I've checked out the specs and reviews for following
bikes: Cannondale (Synapse Fem 5), Felt (ZW5), Giant (Avail Advanced
2), Trek (Madrone 3.1WSD), or Specialized (Ruby Elite Apex). *I was
hoping y'all might have some insights into these bikes so that I
could minimize driving all over the state (there are no local
dealers for most of these) to do the final fit check-out and test
ride. *I don't know how comfort is specified on a web page.

So here goes. *Assuming equally good fit and tire size/psi - Do any
of these bikes stand out as more smooth riding? *Do any of these
bikes stand out as more comfy for all day long cruising? *Does
anyone have any idea how the weights compare for the same size bike?
Thanks for any help trying to trim down my list of potential bikes.

NO! *The comfort of a bicycle resides in its wheelbase and tires;
frames and wheels having practically no perceptible elasticity.
Therefore, test ride the bike and see if it fits your body: bars,
pedals, and saddle. *You can't ask for more. *If you chose a
suspension bicycle, you'll get speed instabilities that you won't
like. *Get large enough tires 28-30mm cross section and brakes that
you like. *That's where it's at!

Are you saying that all other things being equal, a bike with a CF frame
is not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? *That a steel frame is
not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? *Or am I misunderstanding you?- Hide quoted text -

Assuming the same geometry, equipment, tires, etc., then yes, that is
what he is saying. Frame materials are inelastic in the vertical
plane (unless you have a suspension frame). Your seat tube does not
compress and extend. Your rear stays are part of a triangulated
structure. Frame materials do have more or less ability to transmit
vibration, however. That is the the argument as I understand it. --
Jay Beattie.

On 1/5/2011 10:42 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Jan 5, 5:50 am, Duane wrote:
On 1/4/2011 6:15 PM, wrote:





Jean who? wrote:

I'm looking to replace my old road bike with a carbon fiber model.
My criteria a women's specific design, comfy for all day riding,
smooth riding, light weight, Shimano 105 components, and preferably
with three chainwheels.

Via the web, I've checked out the specs and reviews for following
bikes: Cannondale (Synapse Fem 5), Felt (ZW5), Giant (Avail Advanced
2), Trek (Madrone 3.1WSD), or Specialized (Ruby Elite Apex). I was
hoping y'all might have some insights into these bikes so that I
could minimize driving all over the state (there are no local
dealers for most of these) to do the final fit check-out and test
ride. I don't know how comfort is specified on a web page.

So here goes. Assuming equally good fit and tire size/psi - Do any
of these bikes stand out as more smooth riding? Do any of these
bikes stand out as more comfy for all day long cruising? Does
anyone have any idea how the weights compare for the same size bike?
Thanks for any help trying to trim down my list of potential bikes.

NO! The comfort of a bicycle resides in its wheelbase and tires;
frames and wheels having practically no perceptible elasticity.
Therefore, test ride the bike and see if it fits your body: bars,
pedals, and saddle. You can't ask for more. If you chose a
suspension bicycle, you'll get speed instabilities that you won't
like. Get large enough tires 28-30mm cross section and brakes that
you like. That's where it's at!

Are you saying that all other things being equal, a bike with a CF frame
is not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? That a steel frame is
not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? Or am I misunderstanding you?- Hide quoted text -

Assuming the same geometry, equipment, tires, etc., then yes, that is
what he is saying. Frame materials are inelastic in the vertical
plane (unless you have a suspension frame). Your seat tube does not
compress and extend. Your rear stays are part of a triangulated
structure. Frame materials do have more or less ability to transmit
vibration, however. That is the the argument as I understand it. --

I think that my steel frame is a "softer" ride than the last aluminum
frame that I had and I think that the CF frame absorbs a lot of the
road noise that the aluminum one didn't although less than the steel
one does. Am I just imagining that?

Maybe, I mean the CF frame is a tight road bike with a short wheel base
and the steel one is a sport tour style with a longer wheelbase. But
the frame has to be capable of dampening road vibration doesn't it?

Op 5-1-2011 14:50, Duane Hébert schreef:
On 1/4/2011 6:15 PM, wrote:
Jean who? wrote:

I'm looking to replace my old road bike with a carbon fiber model.
My criteria a women's specific design, comfy for all day riding,
smooth riding, light weight, Shimano 105 components, and preferably
with three chainwheels.

Via the web, I've checked out the specs and reviews for following
bikes: Cannondale (Synapse Fem 5), Felt (ZW5), Giant (Avail Advanced
2), Trek (Madrone 3.1WSD), or Specialized (Ruby Elite Apex). I was
hoping y'all might have some insights into these bikes so that I
could minimize driving all over the state (there are no local
dealers for most of these) to do the final fit check-out and test
ride. I don't know how comfort is specified on a web page.

So here goes. Assuming equally good fit and tire size/psi - Do any
of these bikes stand out as more smooth riding? Do any of these
bikes stand out as more comfy for all day long cruising? Does
anyone have any idea how the weights compare for the same size bike?
Thanks for any help trying to trim down my list of potential bikes.

NO! The comfort of a bicycle resides in its wheelbase and tires;
frames and wheels having practically no perceptible elasticity.
Therefore, test ride the bike and see if it fits your body: bars,
pedals, and saddle. You can't ask for more. If you chose a
suspension bicycle, you'll get speed instabilities that you won't
like. Get large enough tires 28-30mm cross section and brakes that
you like. That's where it's at!

Are you saying that all other things being equal, a bike with a CF frame
is not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? That a steel frame is
not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? Or am I misunderstanding you?


A steel frame can be harsher than a aluminum frame. An aluminum frame
can be more comfortable than a CF frame. It is not in the material
itself it is how it is used and even then saddle, wheels, fit, fitness,
tires, handlebar make much much more difference. Choosing a frame
material for its so called comfort properties is stupid. If have a AL,
Ti and a CF roadbike and I really can't feel any difference. Al harsch
and steel plush is something the 'I am a lugged steel frame guy' want
you to believe.

Lou

On Jan 5, 12:43*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 5-1-2011 14:50, Duane Hébert schreef:









On 1/4/2011 6:15 PM, wrote:
Jean who? wrote:

I'm looking to replace my old road bike with a carbon fiber model.
My criteria a women's specific design, comfy for all day riding,
smooth riding, light weight, Shimano 105 components, and preferably
with three chainwheels.

Via the web, I've checked out the specs and reviews for following
bikes: Cannondale (Synapse Fem 5), Felt (ZW5), Giant (Avail Advanced
2), Trek (Madrone 3.1WSD), or Specialized (Ruby Elite Apex). I was
hoping y'all might have some insights into these bikes so that I
could minimize driving all over the state (there are no local
dealers for most of these) to do the final fit check-out and test
ride. I don't know how comfort is specified on a web page.

So here goes. Assuming equally good fit and tire size/psi - Do any
of these bikes stand out as more smooth riding? Do any of these
bikes stand out as more comfy for all day long cruising? Does
anyone have any idea how the weights compare for the same size bike?
Thanks for any help trying to trim down my list of potential bikes.

NO! The comfort of a bicycle resides in its wheelbase and tires;
frames and wheels having practically no perceptible elasticity.
Therefore, test ride the bike and see if it fits your body: bars,
pedals, and saddle. You can't ask for more. If you chose a
suspension bicycle, you'll get speed instabilities that you won't
like. Get large enough tires 28-30mm cross section and brakes that
you like. That's where it's at!

Are you saying that all other things being equal, a bike with a CF frame
is not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? That a steel frame is
not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? Or am I misunderstanding you?

A steel frame can be harsher than a aluminum frame. An aluminum frame
can be more comfortable than a CF frame. It is not in the material
itself it is how it is used and even then saddle, wheels, fit, fitness,
tires, handlebar make much much more difference. Choosing a frame
material for its so called comfort properties is stupid. If have a AL,
Ti and a CF roadbike and I really can't feel any difference. Al harsch
and steel plush is something the 'I am a lugged steel frame guy' want
you to believe.

It's what every single one of my friends believe, especially when on a
sales floor. That said, steel is pretty nice for a bike that you're
gonna wreck, like a hard tail mtb, as you can repair it more easily.

I'm of the school that Taiwan and China have got it down when it comes
to mass produced frames, they're commodities, not worth sweating
about. I'll have my buddy A. build me a bike next year probably--but
more as a way to support a cool guy, and to have a piece of art.

On 1/5/2011 1:43 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 5-1-2011 14:50, Duane Hébert schreef:
On 1/4/2011 6:15 PM, wrote:
Jean who? wrote:

I'm looking to replace my old road bike with a carbon fiber model.
My criteria a women's specific design, comfy for all day riding,
smooth riding, light weight, Shimano 105 components, and preferably
with three chainwheels.

Via the web, I've checked out the specs and reviews for following
bikes: Cannondale (Synapse Fem 5), Felt (ZW5), Giant (Avail Advanced
2), Trek (Madrone 3.1WSD), or Specialized (Ruby Elite Apex). I was
hoping y'all might have some insights into these bikes so that I
could minimize driving all over the state (there are no local
dealers for most of these) to do the final fit check-out and test
ride. I don't know how comfort is specified on a web page.

So here goes. Assuming equally good fit and tire size/psi - Do any
of these bikes stand out as more smooth riding? Do any of these
bikes stand out as more comfy for all day long cruising? Does
anyone have any idea how the weights compare for the same size bike?
Thanks for any help trying to trim down my list of potential bikes.

NO! The comfort of a bicycle resides in its wheelbase and tires;
frames and wheels having practically no perceptible elasticity.
Therefore, test ride the bike and see if it fits your body: bars,
pedals, and saddle. You can't ask for more. If you chose a
suspension bicycle, you'll get speed instabilities that you won't
like. Get large enough tires 28-30mm cross section and brakes that
you like. That's where it's at!

Are you saying that all other things being equal, a bike with a CF frame
is not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? That a steel frame is
not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? Or am I misunderstanding
you?


A steel frame can be harsher than a aluminum frame. An aluminum frame
can be more comfortable than a CF frame. It is not in the material
itself it is how it is used and even then saddle, wheels, fit, fitness,
tires, handlebar make much much more difference. Choosing a frame
material for its so called comfort properties is stupid. If have a AL,
Ti and a CF roadbike and I really can't feel any difference. Al harsch
and steel plush is something the 'I am a lugged steel frame guy' want
you to believe.

But I'm pretty much a lugged steel frame guy that also has a CF. Both
of my current bikes are more comfortable than my last aluminum one. The
CF one tends to have less road vibration and the steel one seems more
comfortable WRT bumps. I'm pretty happy with both. I'm riding the road
bike more these days as it handles better and just seems more fun to ride.

I've read http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

I know that there are a lot of differences beside the frames. But I
thought that all other things being equal, the stiffness or damping
characteristics would be different.

Op 5-1-2011 19:53, Duane Hébert schreef:
On 1/5/2011 1:43 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 5-1-2011 14:50, Duane Hébert schreef:
On 1/4/2011 6:15 PM, wrote:
Jean who? wrote:

I'm looking to replace my old road bike with a carbon fiber model.
My criteria a women's specific design, comfy for all day riding,
smooth riding, light weight, Shimano 105 components, and preferably
with three chainwheels.

Via the web, I've checked out the specs and reviews for following
bikes: Cannondale (Synapse Fem 5), Felt (ZW5), Giant (Avail Advanced
2), Trek (Madrone 3.1WSD), or Specialized (Ruby Elite Apex). I was
hoping y'all might have some insights into these bikes so that I
could minimize driving all over the state (there are no local
dealers for most of these) to do the final fit check-out and test
ride. I don't know how comfort is specified on a web page.

So here goes. Assuming equally good fit and tire size/psi - Do any
of these bikes stand out as more smooth riding? Do any of these
bikes stand out as more comfy for all day long cruising? Does
anyone have any idea how the weights compare for the same size bike?
Thanks for any help trying to trim down my list of potential bikes.

NO! The comfort of a bicycle resides in its wheelbase and tires;
frames and wheels having practically no perceptible elasticity.
Therefore, test ride the bike and see if it fits your body: bars,
pedals, and saddle. You can't ask for more. If you chose a
suspension bicycle, you'll get speed instabilities that you won't
like. Get large enough tires 28-30mm cross section and brakes that
you like. That's where it's at!

Are you saying that all other things being equal, a bike with a CF frame
is not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? That a steel frame is
not more comfortable than an aluminum frame? Or am I misunderstanding
you?


A steel frame can be harsher than a aluminum frame. An aluminum frame
can be more comfortable than a CF frame. It is not in the material
itself it is how it is used and even then saddle, wheels, fit, fitness,
tires, handlebar make much much more difference. Choosing a frame
material for its so called comfort properties is stupid. If have a AL,
Ti and a CF roadbike and I really can't feel any difference. Al harsch
and steel plush is something the 'I am a lugged steel frame guy' want
you to believe.

But I'm pretty much a lugged steel frame guy that also has a CF. Both of
my current bikes are more comfortable than my last aluminum one. The CF
one tends to have less road vibration and the steel one seems more
comfortable WRT bumps. I'm pretty happy with both. I'm riding the road
bike more these days as it handles better and just seems more fun to ride.

I've read http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

I know that there are a lot of differences beside the frames. But I
thought that all other things being equal, the stiffness or damping
characteristics would be different.





Steel is 3 times stiffer than aluminum and 2 times stiffer than Ti if
you just look at the material properties. How about that. Things are
never equal. You just compared two bikes/frames.

Lou

On 1/5/2011 10:53 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

But I'm pretty much a lugged steel frame guy that also has a CF. Both of
my current bikes are more comfortable than my last aluminum one. The CF
one tends to have less road vibration and the steel one seems more
comfortable WRT bumps. I'm pretty happy with both. I'm riding the road
bike more these days as it handles better and just seems more fun to ride.

I've read http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

I know that there are a lot of differences beside the frames. But I
thought that all other things being equal, the stiffness or damping
characteristics would be different.

I'm just waiting for CF to filter down to the el-cheapo bikes, like what
happened with aluminum. AL started off with Cannondale and Vitus, who
were able to convince people that a less expensive material was worth
paying a premium for. It worked out well for quite a while, until the
ROW realized the cost advantages of aluminum, and eventually Cannondale
went into bankruptcy. CF, manufactured in volume could be cost
competitive with aluminum.

There's still a Cannondale dealer near me, and it's amusing to see their
banner proclaiming that Cannondale bicycles are made in the U.S., when
the current owner of Cannondale moved all production to Asia.

On Jan 5, 1:15*pm, SMS wrote:
On 1/5/2011 10:53 AM, Duane H bert wrote:

But I'm pretty much a lugged steel frame guy that also has a CF. Both of
my current bikes are more comfortable than my last aluminum one. The CF
one tends to have less road vibration and the steel one seems more
comfortable WRT bumps. I'm pretty happy with both. I'm riding the road
bike more these days as it handles better and just seems more fun to ride.

I've readhttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

I know that there are a lot of differences beside the frames. But I
thought that all other things being equal, the stiffness or damping
characteristics would be different.

I'm just waiting for CF to filter down to the el-cheapo bikes, like what
happened with aluminum. AL started off with Cannondale and Vitus, who
were able to convince people that a less expensive material was worth
paying a premium for.

Evidence for this, or simply lying again, Scharf? You make the claim
that aluminum is less expensive, and that two of the big 80s
manufacturers had some kind of price gouging conspiracy going.

On 1/5/2011 11:18 AM, landotter wrote:

Evidence for this, or simply lying again, Scharf? You make the claim
that aluminum is less expensive, and that two of the big 80s
manufacturers had some kind of price gouging conspiracy going.

Listen to Sheldon's speech. Or attend the Taipei International Bicycle
show and compare prices of different frames. I've done both.
http://sheldonbrown.com/podcasts/sheldon-bentride2005.mp3 8:50. And
remember the $8 was for an aluminum frame from Taiwan, not from China.
Is there anyone that believes that aluminum frames are not less
expensive than Cro-Mo steel frames?!

There was no conspiracy by Vitus and/or Cannondale, just a brilliant
realization that there was a way to sell a product that cost less to
manufacture for more money than the product that cost more to
manufacture. No one forced anyone to buy those products.