Coaster Brake Failure

On 2/28/2019 7:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
Â* anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock.

Well, for me it's been rare, but it's happened maybe three times. It's
why my touring bike has a spare rear derailleur cable in among its tools.

The worst event was on an 80 mile, super-hilly ride I used to lead. My
cable snapped at the shifter just as I was starting the toughest climb.
I did make it to the top, then pulled over to change the cable. I found
to my dismay that my spare cable was too short. (My touring bike has a
long wheelbase, and I run the cables from the bar-end shifters under the
handlebar tape. I need a cable longer than 73".)

So I decided to run the new cable from the shifter, and tie it to the
remains of the old cable, knotting it along the down tube. That's when I
found that it's about impossible to tie two cables together using knots.
I eventually did it, but my friends had to wait 20 minutes or more.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/1/19 3:24 AM, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:49:52 -0800, Joerg wrote:

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a
Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very
low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the
extra weight.

Have they improved the reliability of Rohloffs now.
At one stage it came with a "too much force" caveat and I viewed it as
unreliable off road(real offf road).


https://www.rohloff.de/en/experience...pecifications/

130NM. I think this is to discourage tandem use. Mines on a cargo bike,
so far with no problems. All up wet weight likely 150kgs and add my
shopping to that :-)

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word
"verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but
let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned.
People using
library modules that others have written, assuming
everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the
least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will
never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables
break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that
everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a
rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts
per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are
especially hard on the battery and on mountainous
singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend
that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the
complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very
useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight.


Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word
"verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but
let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned.
People using
library modules that others have written, assuming
everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the
least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will
never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables
break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that
everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a
rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts
per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are
especially hard on the battery and on mountainous
singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend
that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the
complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very
useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight.


Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

BUT! It's NEW!

Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either
dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27
speeds at a much, much lower price.

The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI
shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank
I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed.

--
Cheers,
John B.

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 4:12:51 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word
"verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but
let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned.
People using
library modules that others have written, assuming
everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the
least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will
never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables
break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that
everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a
rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts
per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are
especially hard on the battery and on mountainous
singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend
that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the
complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very
useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight.


Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

BUT! It's NEW!

Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either
dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27
speeds at a much, much lower price.

The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI
shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank
I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed.

--
Cheers,
John B.

I too have a couple of bicycles with 9 speed x 3 chainrings. One is a 9 speed Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 set with a Veloce rear derailler and Mirage 9 speed shifters (ratchet left shifter) because the Mirage was the same inside as the Veloce but a lot less $.

To keep selling components or frames even, manufacturers MUST come up with NEW stuff and Marketting has to convince bicyclists that the bicyclist MUST HAVE this latest doo dad.

On one of my bicycles I have a 9 gear 11 - 19 teeth corncob cluster on it that I made up for fun from some 9 speed cassettes plus one cog from an 8 speed cassette. It shifts just fine with the friction shifters I'm using on that bike.

Cheers

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:17:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 4:12:51 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word
"verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but
let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned.
People using
library modules that others have written, assuming
everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the
least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will
never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables
break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that
everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a
rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts
per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are
especially hard on the battery and on mountainous
singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend
that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the
complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very
useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight.


Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

BUT! It's NEW!

Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either
dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27
speeds at a much, much lower price.

The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI
shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank
I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed.

--
Cheers,
John B.

I too have a couple of bicycles with 9 speed x 3 chainrings. One is a 9 speed Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 set with a Veloce rear derailler and Mirage 9 speed shifters (ratchet left shifter) because the Mirage was the same inside as the Veloce but a lot less $.

To keep selling components or frames even, manufacturers MUST come up with NEW stuff and Marketting has to convince bicyclists that the bicyclist MUST HAVE this latest doo dad.

On one of my bicycles I have a 9 gear 11 - 19 teeth corncob cluster on it that I made up for fun from some 9 speed cassettes plus one cog from an 8 speed cassette. It shifts just fine with the friction shifters I'm using on that bike.

Cheers

It's been a few (more than a few) years but when I had a 7 speed with
2 chain rings I can't remember ever feeling that I needed more.I can
see the possibility of someone who raced wanting very close spaced
gears but for the average Joe I really doubt that they would average
any faster on, say a 2 hour ride, with a seven speed as opposed to a 9
or ten speed.

As far as cassettes go, I did the same thing on my "Bangkok bike".
Bangkok is built on an alluvial plain and there might be one tooth
difference in riding north as apposed to riding south and the only
hills are bridges. On a 20 km ride I might shift once. I built a 13 -
25 cassette as you did out of a bunch of loose cogs. With 50-42 chain
rings I've never wanted for more.

--
Cheers,
John B.

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 6:19:03 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:17:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 4:12:51 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word
"verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but
let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned.
People using
library modules that others have written, assuming
everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the
least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will
never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables
break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that
everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a
rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts
per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are
especially hard on the battery and on mountainous
singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend
that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the
complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very
useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight.


Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

BUT! It's NEW!

Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either
dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27
speeds at a much, much lower price.

The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI
shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank
I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed.

--
Cheers,
John B.

I too have a couple of bicycles with 9 speed x 3 chainrings. One is a 9 speed Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 set with a Veloce rear derailler and Mirage 9 speed shifters (ratchet left shifter) because the Mirage was the same inside as the Veloce but a lot less $.

To keep selling components or frames even, manufacturers MUST come up with NEW stuff and Marketting has to convince bicyclists that the bicyclist MUST HAVE this latest doo dad.

On one of my bicycles I have a 9 gear 11 - 19 teeth corncob cluster on it that I made up for fun from some 9 speed cassettes plus one cog from an 8 speed cassette. It shifts just fine with the friction shifters I'm using on that bike.

Cheers

It's been a few (more than a few) years but when I had a 7 speed with
2 chain rings I can't remember ever feeling that I needed more.I can
see the possibility of someone who raced wanting very close spaced
gears but for the average Joe I really doubt that they would average
any faster on, say a 2 hour ride, with a seven speed as opposed to a 9
or ten speed.

As far as cassettes go, I did the same thing on my "Bangkok bike".
Bangkok is built on an alluvial plain and there might be one tooth
difference in riding north as apposed to riding south and the only
hills are bridges. On a 20 km ride I might shift once. I built a 13 -
25 cassette as you did out of a bunch of loose cogs. With 50-42 chain
rings I've never wanted for more.

--
Cheers,
John B.

it would not surprise me to see the next great thing in bicycling being an internally geared bottom bracket. Then you could have the equivalent of at least three or four chainrings with nothing exposed.

You know, it's be interesting to calculate the gear jumps on that 13 speed cluster and then compare those with the jumps on a 7 or 8 speed cluster.

Cheers

On 01/03/2019 5:17 a.m., Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 4:12:51 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:29:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 9:31:16 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word
"verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but
let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned.
People using
library modules that others have written, assuming
everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the
least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will
never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables
break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that
everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a
rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts
per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are
especially hard on the battery and on mountainous
singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend
that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the
complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very
useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight.


Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Plus it's not expensive at all.

From the linked page:

"A complete groupset of shift & brake levers, brake calipers & rotors, and the new 13-speed rear derailleur sells for $1830 / 1667€ (cranks, chainring & chain excluded). Add in another $415 / 380-400€ extra for the 13-speed cassette (plus the need for a specific hub) or $365 / 334-350€ for a 12-speed version to work with your existing Shimano freehub wheels."

A groupset that does NOT include the crankset, the chinrings, the chain, the cassette or the hubs? Doesn't sound like much of a groupset to me.

$415.00 US JUST for a 13 gear cassette? Bring back the old 14 speed 2 x 7 setup! LOL

Cheers

BUT! It's NEW!

Actually I have 9 speed cassettes on two of my three bikes with either
dual or triple chain rings which gives me either 18 speeds or 27
speeds at a much, much lower price.

The third has a 10 speed setup because I got a pair of 10 speed STI
shifters almost free so cobbled up a 10 speed cassette and to be frank
I really can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 speed.

--
Cheers,
John B.

I too have a couple of bicycles with 9 speed x 3 chainrings. One is a 9 speed Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 set with a Veloce rear derailler and Mirage 9 speed shifters (ratchet left shifter) because the Mirage was the same inside as the Veloce but a lot less $.

To keep selling components or frames even, manufacturers MUST come up with NEW stuff and Marketting has to convince bicyclists that the bicyclist MUST HAVE this latest doo dad.

On one of my bicycles I have a 9 gear 11 - 19 teeth corncob cluster on it that I made up for fun from some 9 speed cassettes plus one cog from an 8 speed cassette. It shifts just fine with the friction shifters I'm using on that bike.

Cheers


I went from an 8 speed triple on my Bianchi Volpe to a 10 speed double
on my Spec Tarmac. The difference was amazing. g Of course the
weight went from 30lbs to 18lbs and the bar end shifters went to Shimano
105 brifters and the steel frame to carbon and, and and ...
Mostly kidding but unless you change the group on the same bike without
changing anything else it would be difficult to determine the difference.

I switched bikes from the Tarmac Elite to a Tarmac Pro with 11 speed
double and I see a difference also but even then the Pro is 3 lbs
lighter and had a 52/36 11T28 instead of the 53/39 12t28.


Generally, I would say that people have different requirements. I
understand that some people buy based purely on marketing but a lot of
cyclists are interested in the actual performance of the bike. And you
don't have to be a pro racer to appreciate that.

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 5:05:52 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:49:52 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge
is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the
battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot.

Well, I don't have an electric shift but I have read that folks that
use the Shimano electric shift have to recharge, or replace the
battery every year or so, which doesn't sound like an impossibly
frequent task.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a
Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very
low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the
extra weight.

Good Lord! You have been talking about retirement, you own two cars,
You live in a gated community and can't afford a thousand dollars?
Look at it as an investment, after all you could change the rear wheel
when you change bikes.

The other day I was reading, in another group, about a guy that was
buying a cheap hand phone for a pre-teen kid and it was "only" $180. I
had assumed that all you "round eyes" were rich.
--

Cheers,

John B.

In what world do you get the right to tell someone else how to spend their money? You have to be one of the most contemptible people I've ever had the misfortune to communicate with.

On Thursday, February 28, 2019 at 6:31:16 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word
"verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but
let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned.
People using
library modules that others have written, assuming
everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the
least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will
never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables
break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that
everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a
rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts
per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are
especially hard on the battery and on mountainous
singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend
that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the
complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very
useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight.


Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That looks pretty spectacular though I would prefer a 10 speed that had a chain of sufficient strength to take a lot less wear.