Front Brake LH or RH?

Am Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:51:49 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 9/23/2020 10:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2020 09:55:59 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/rose-bi...r-brake-rules/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ludicrous. Is it really that hard for a bicycle shop to switch the brake lever location prior to selling the bike?

My guess is that for cable operated brakes it's usually pretty easy. For
hydraulics, maybe not. But then, I've never worked on hydraulic brakes.

Actually, IMO it's the other way round. Brake calipers are often
asymmetric. Exchanging cables on my wifes racing bike would result in a
worse cable radius.
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/scott.png/download

Hydraulic brake lines, on the other hand, don't suffer from that
problem.


What's ludicrous is the legal requirement for brake lever placement.

Indeed.
--
Thank you for observing all safety precautions

Am Wed, 23 Sep 2020 19:36:04 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 9/23/2020 12:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:55:56 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

https://cyclingindustry.news/rose-bi...r-brake-rules/

Who needs two levers anyway?
https://www.outbraker.com/double-booster/
"DBB is designed for disabled riders who need to control Front/Rear
Brakes together with one arm."

I think that's far from ideal. Except for the slowest paved road
flatland riding, it's very valuable to be able to control the two brakes
individually.

Indeed. When riding on dry or not too wet asphalt, I don't use the rear
brake at all. There is not much weight on the rear wheel during an
emergency stop, anyway, and operating two brakes - or fighting a
mechanism trying to control both brakes - only complicates matter,
making it worse.

On the other hand, on a slippery road - leaves in autumn, snow during
winter - being able to control both brakes individually is essential.



I'm not sure what that company is doing with a variable
reservoir, but their adjustment probably can't be made instantaneously
while riding.

Methinks the logic behind the front brake on the right hand lever is
that for a right handed person, the right hand is stronger. Therefore,
such a person is more likely fly over the handlebars by applying
braking pressure first and strongest to the front brakes. Somehow,
that doesn't seem like a good idea.

Hmm. That sounds like the logic behind NOT having the right lever
actuate the front brake.

I'm accustomed to use my left hand for the front brake on my racing
bike, and using my right hand on the dutch type bicycle. On the former,
it makes sense because I'm able to both start braking with my left and
switching gears with my right hand, at the same time.

Dutch type bicycles traditionally have a front brake operated with the
right hand, plus a coaster brake. The probable reason being Dutch type
bikes traditionally having a single, bad brake. Dutch bicycling culture
is anything but, its most prominent featurees a ride in the flat and
do it slowly.

When our children were young, we once spent a holiday in the
Netherlands, in a holiday park with bicycle rental. The available bikes
had only one brake, which hardly worked on half of the bikes.

I have all my brakes set up for left lever actuating the front brake.


All racing and touring bikes we bought over the last 40 years came with
front brake on the left, I like it that way. Even with downtube
shifters, having the left hand on the essential breake plus being able
switch gears made a lot of sense and hasn't changed with mechanical
"brifters".

On the other hand (excuse the pun) I don't find braking with my right
hand on the dutch bike that difficult. Geometry and riding behavious is
completely different, anyway. It is made for steering _and_ braking
with one hand and carrying stuff with the other. I can do that with
either hand and don't have strong preferences.

Fewer bends and a shorter cable mean less wasted force and motion for
the front brake, so the typically weaker left hand is fine for that
duty. But I am fairly ambidextrous, so YMMV.

Yup.
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 15:23:47 UTC+2 schreef Wolfgang Strobl:
Am Wed, 23 Sep 2020 19:36:04 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:
On 9/23/2020 12:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:55:56 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

https://cyclingindustry.news/rose-bi...r-brake-rules/

Who needs two levers anyway?
https://www.outbraker.com/double-booster/
"DBB is designed for disabled riders who need to control Front/Rear
Brakes together with one arm."

I think that's far from ideal. Except for the slowest paved road
flatland riding, it's very valuable to be able to control the two brakes
individually.
Indeed. When riding on dry or not too wet asphalt, I don't use the rear
brake at all. There is not much weight on the rear wheel during an
emergency stop, anyway, and operating two brakes - or fighting a
mechanism trying to control both brakes - only complicates matter,
making it worse.

On the other hand, on a slippery road - leaves in autumn, snow during
winter - being able to control both brakes individually is essential.
I'm not sure what that company is doing with a variable
reservoir, but their adjustment probably can't be made instantaneously
while riding.

Methinks the logic behind the front brake on the right hand lever is
that for a right handed person, the right hand is stronger. Therefore,
such a person is more likely fly over the handlebars by applying
braking pressure first and strongest to the front brakes. Somehow,
that doesn't seem like a good idea.

Hmm. That sounds like the logic behind NOT having the right lever
actuate the front brake.

I'm accustomed to use my left hand for the front brake on my racing
bike, and using my right hand on the dutch type bicycle. On the former,
it makes sense because I'm able to both start braking with my left and
switching gears with my right hand, at the same time.

Dutch type bicycles traditionally have a front brake operated with the
right hand, plus a coaster brake. The probable reason being Dutch type
bikes traditionally having a single, bad brake. Dutch bicycling culture
is anything but, its most prominent featurees a ride in the flat and
do it slowly.

When our children were young, we once spent a holiday in the
Netherlands, in a holiday park with bicycle rental. The available bikes
had only one brake, which hardly worked on half of the bikes.

I have all my brakes set up for left lever actuating the front brake.


All racing and touring bikes we bought over the last 40 years came with
front brake on the left, I like it that way. Even with downtube
shifters, having the left hand on the essential breake plus being able
switch gears made a lot of sense and hasn't changed with mechanical
"brifters".

On the other hand (excuse the pun) I don't find braking with my right
hand on the dutch bike that difficult. Geometry and riding behavious is
completely different, anyway. It is made for steering _and_ braking
with one hand and carrying stuff with the other. I can do that with
either hand and don't have strong preferences.

Fewer bends and a shorter cable mean less wasted force and motion for
the front brake, so the typically weaker left hand is fine for that
duty. But I am fairly ambidextrous, so YMMV.

Yup.
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


All my Dutch bikes have powerful brakes and left hand front. Jawohl.

Lou

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 14:52:50 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
wrote:

Am Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:51:49 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 9/23/2020 10:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2020 09:55:59 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/rose-bi...r-brake-rules/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ludicrous. Is it really that hard for a bicycle shop to switch the brake lever location prior to selling the bike?

My guess is that for cable operated brakes it's usually pretty easy. For
hydraulics, maybe not. But then, I've never worked on hydraulic brakes.

Actually, IMO it's the other way round. Brake calipers are often
asymmetric. Exchanging cables on my wifes racing bike would result in a
worse cable radius.
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/scott.png/download

While you are correct that brake calipers may be asymmetrical I have
found that it really doesn't make any difference in actual brake
operation whether the cable originates on the left or the right handle
bar side.



Hydraulic brake lines, on the other hand, don't suffer from that
problem.


What's ludicrous is the legal requirement for brake lever placement.

Indeed.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Am Sat, 26 Sep 2020 08:34:13 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
:

All my Dutch bikes have powerful brakes and left hand front. Jawohl.

So? I reported an experience from a time long ago when our children
where young and when dutch style bicycles didn't have powerfull brakes,
especially those available for rent. A noticeable proportion of these
bikes - about half AFAIR - only had a single brake operated on the
right, or just a coaster brake. This kind of bicyle coined the term
dutch style bike or, as we say here, Hollandrad.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hollandrad&t=ffsb&iar=images&iax=images&ia=imag es
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dutch+style+bike&t=ffsb&iar=images&iax=images&i a=images

Both my Sparta Cornwall
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/bild12.jpg/image.jpg and my
current Prophete
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=prophete+hollandrad&iax=images&ia=images
have the front on the right side. No need for emphasis, it's just a
fact.

I very much liked the Sparta, it served me very well over a few years.
Its Sachs VT 5000 drum brake was somewhat toxic, it cost me at least one
fork, but the bike was ideal for short-distance shopping trips. I even
used it for commuting for a year or to, before switching back to a more
hill friendly biycle.

Unfortunately, the Sparta did not survive parking on the park strip in
front of my house, so I bought the Prophete. Cheap, bad geometry, only
three gears, heavy - but it serves the purpose.
--
Bicycle helmets are the Bach flower remedies of traffic

Am Sun, 27 Sep 2020 05:43:40 +0700 schrieb John B.
:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 14:52:50 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
wrote:

Am Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:51:49 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 9/23/2020 10:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 September 2020 09:55:59 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/rose-bi...r-brake-rules/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ludicrous. Is it really that hard for a bicycle shop to switch the brake lever location prior to selling the bike?

My guess is that for cable operated brakes it's usually pretty easy. For
hydraulics, maybe not. But then, I've never worked on hydraulic brakes.

Actually, IMO it's the other way round. Brake calipers are often
asymmetric. Exchanging cables on my wifes racing bike would result in a
worse cable radius.
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/scott.png/download

While you are correct that brake calipers may be asymmetrical I have
found that it really doesn't make any difference in actual brake
operation whether the cable originates on the left or the right handle
bar side.

How wide is your handlebar? Mine is 42 cm wide, my wifes only 38 cm. It
may not make a difference under optimal conditions - new cables, no
wear, but it might make a difference later. Why take a risk with no
benefit, at least no benefit for us?

We both like it the way it was when we started to ride our touring bikes
up the Loire, fourty years ago

https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/wolfgang-strobl/fotos/Frankreich/loire/loire3b.png/download

In addition, I prefer it for technical reasons.
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

Am Fri, 25 Sep 2020 20:14:59 -0500 schrieb AMuzi :

On 9/25/2020 7:27 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 19:55:11 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

....
Easy to say when you've got two hands.

Well yes, but one might equally argue that a foot brake, like the old
"coaster brake", is vital to those with no hands.


I have some experience with one-handed active sport
cyclists. They all hate CB. Most run derailleur controls
on one side (with a dual command brake lever or cable
splitter). Some prefer 7/8/11 gearboxes.

I have two hands, but like the Coaster Brake on my dutch style bicycle,
because it allows me to carry stuff with either hand, while riding and
because it works reasonably well in heavy rain. Of course, the bike has
_two_ brakes. It is just like the handbrake on cars - nobody uses these
for emergency or hard braking or at all while driving, but they come
handy sometimes. The CB is usefull for soft braking and for keeping the
bike from rolling, without having to have a hand free for that.

After a bicycle accident, I could't use my left arm and hand for a while
- control still isn't perfect after many years. At that time I enjoyed
to have that coaster brake, because switching gears and braking
conflicted. With my current racing bikes brifter, switching the front
brake to the right handle would have been an option, in theory. In
practice, I wasn't doing "active sports", just recovering.
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 10:45:14 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
wrote:

Am Fri, 25 Sep 2020 20:14:59 -0500 schrieb AMuzi :

On 9/25/2020 7:27 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 19:55:11 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

...
Easy to say when you've got two hands.

Well yes, but one might equally argue that a foot brake, like the old
"coaster brake", is vital to those with no hands.


I have some experience with one-handed active sport
cyclists. They all hate CB. Most run derailleur controls
on one side (with a dual command brake lever or cable
splitter). Some prefer 7/8/11 gearboxes.

I have two hands, but like the Coaster Brake on my dutch style bicycle,
because it allows me to carry stuff with either hand, while riding and
because it works reasonably well in heavy rain. Of course, the bike has
_two_ brakes. It is just like the handbrake on cars - nobody uses these
for emergency or hard braking or at all while driving, but they come
handy sometimes. The CB is usefull for soft braking and for keeping the
bike from rolling, without having to have a hand free for that.

After a bicycle accident, I could't use my left arm and hand for a while
- control still isn't perfect after many years. At that time I enjoyed
to have that coaster brake, because switching gears and braking
conflicted. With my current racing bikes brifter, switching the front
brake to the right handle would have been an option, in theory. In
practice, I wasn't doing "active sports", just recovering.

When I was a young fellow all bicycles had a coaster brake :-) I
remember how surprised I was when I went to Japan, in the early 1950's
and saw bicycles with hand brakes... on both wheels too :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 05:40:08 +0700, John B.
wrote:

When I was a young fellow all bicycles had a coaster brake :-) I
remember how surprised I was when I went to Japan, in the early 1950's
and saw bicycles with hand brakes... on both wheels too :-)

My father told a lively story of how he learned that coaster brakes
existed.

When he was a young fellow, all bikes were fixed gear and working hand
brakes hadn't yet been invented. (History books show pictures of
ornamental "brakes" such as a teaspoon lightly stroking a tire.)

One day he borrowed a bike, started to go down a hill, tried to slow
by resisting the pedals, the pedals broke free of the back wheel.

By good luck, in his terror, he started pedalling backward.

--
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGESEW/
The above message is a Usenet post.

On 9/25/2020, Frank Krygowsk wrote:
On 9/24/2020 8:17 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

The Lupine SL-A offers a good beam.
https://www.lupine.de/products/bike-...ad-bike-lights
For America where there's a thinner supply of used $200 lampheads sold by
those "upgrading" to newer models that include Stvzo high-beam options, the
Outbound Lighting Road Edition makes more sense, especially in mid-to high
glare traffic environments.

Thanks for the links. The Lupine looks excellent - but wow, what a price!

Just a note to those considering to purchase a new or used Lupine SL... --
this season, bake some gingerbread instead!

There seems to be a mechanical issue due to inadequately dimensioned (and
positioned) aluminum threading and short screws. Only if users keep nagging
the company (and demanding replacements under warranty), the lamps will
eventually get equipped with steel inserts at their sides.