Election Math, Donkey Party Method

On 11/6/2020 2:55 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2020 17:00:24 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/5/2020 4:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 3:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 12:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/5/2020 10:17 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 3:56:20 PM UTC, Andre
Jute wrote:
“The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.â€
-- Joseph Stalin, 1923

Looks like the Donkey Party Election Fraud Unit is
working overtime to prove Uncle Joe right.

Andre Jute
From Stalin's grave there's a clear view of his wife
Nadia's grave. She committed suicide because she could
no longer bear living with him.

Here's a good one. The people of Wisconsin are
especially civic-minded, well known for their exception
voting prowess:

Wisconsin reports 3,684,726 active registered voters.

They counted 3,288,771 votes.

89% turnout?

Joe Stalin might not have questioned 89% turnout, but
in a semi-free, supposedly democratic country with a
long, long history of near-indifference from actual
voters? As the Other Joe will say, "Come on, man!"

Andre Jute
It's the stuff of standup comedy before an audience of
statisticians.

Sorta true sorta not. Actually it's worse.

Three governors ago we had a different commie regime and
that's when they started 'register while voting', an open
invitation to fraud. In my county, one must show photo
ID to
get a ballot at the polls. Not so in Milwaukee County and
other leftie areas. A guy could just show up, make up a
name
and address, and vote in every ward all day long without
ever being challenged. And so they do.

Not to mention mail-in frauds & thefts of all types:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...es/ar-BB1aFhiM



(note right wing source there. most of these are poorly
reported if at all)


https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11...lection-691855




The excellent Governor DeSantis canned Brenda Snipes and
other crooked county clerks, revamped the system and got
the Florida vote counted and certified Tuesday evening on
time. A far cry from Florida 2000 or Florida 2016 or WI,
MI, PA, GA this year.

What's the definition of "on time"? Doesn't that vary state
by state?



The actual statutes or the 2020 ad hoc revisions? Two very
different things.

Article II Section 2 says the legislature of each State
has complete authority, not Governors, judges or election
boards.

Judges obviously have a place in deciding the meaning of
laws. That's why they exist. Election boards and governors
often have authority given to them by legislators. This is
normal and correct.

There have been some abuses in the past (see below*), there
will be some abuses in the future, but in elections watched
as closely as this one, it seems very unlikely there's been
truly significant wrongdoing so far.

AFAIK there is no law claiming that vote counting must be
stopped before all legally cast ballots are counted - which
is what Trump is trying to say.

* Remember the Diebold controversy in Ohio in 2004? "I am
committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the
president." And Diebold's machines didn't work right in
heavily Democratic areas, and exit polls differed greatly
from machine vote counts, which did indeed get "delivered"
to Bush.

https://columbusfreepress.com/articl...ohio-elections



Oh, don't mistake my comments for newly found partisan
outrage. I've been reading the Chicago Tribune for 50 years,
the running log of professionals and their craft.

Check out the story of Lyndon Johnson's first two elections
some time.
https://www.worldtribune.com/how-lan...-race-in-1948/

He stuffed ballots in 1941 but hie opponent stuffed more.
He learned from that and prevailed in 1948 after the war.

Yawn... Have a look at Louisiana politics. Huey Long who literally
ruled Louisiana like a king from 1928 to his assignation in 1935
almost immediately after overseeing the passing of a re-districting
plan to preventing political opponents from becoming judges.

Or even better, the career of "Mayor Curley" who was elected as an
Alderman while in prison for fraud and was elected to his 4th term as
Mayor of Boston while under indictment by a federal grand jury. He was
elected with 45% of the vote, was convicted and served 5 months. His
sentence was commuted and upon his return, "crowd of thousands greeted
Curley upon his return to Boston, with a brass band playing "Hail to
the Chief".


Yes, I'm sure we could do this all day long.

The idiot pronouncements of 'count every vote' are getting
tiresome in that they ignore the graveyard vote and
duplicates which is where these things are actually decided.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 2:41:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 3:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 12:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/5/2020 10:17 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 3:56:20 PM UTC, Andre
Jute wrote:
“The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.â€
-- Joseph Stalin, 1923

Looks like the Donkey Party Election Fraud Unit is
working overtime to prove Uncle Joe right.

Andre Jute
From Stalin's grave there's a clear view of his wife
Nadia's grave. She committed suicide because she could
no longer bear living with him.

Here's a good one. The people of Wisconsin are
especially civic-minded, well known for their exception
voting prowess:

Wisconsin reports 3,684,726 active registered voters.

They counted 3,288,771 votes.

89% turnout?

Joe Stalin might not have questioned 89% turnout, but
in a semi-free, supposedly democratic country with a
long, long history of near-indifference from actual
voters? As the Other Joe will say, "Come on, man!"

Andre Jute
It's the stuff of standup comedy before an audience of
statisticians.

Sorta true sorta not. Actually it's worse.

Three governors ago we had a different commie regime and
that's when they started 'register while voting', an open
invitation to fraud. In my county, one must show photo
ID to
get a ballot at the polls. Not so in Milwaukee County and
other leftie areas. A guy could just show up, make up a
name
and address, and vote in every ward all day long without
ever being challenged. And so they do.

Not to mention mail-in frauds & thefts of all types:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...es/ar-BB1aFhiM



(note right wing source there. most of these are poorly
reported if at all)


https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11...lection-691855




The excellent Governor DeSantis canned Brenda Snipes and
other crooked county clerks, revamped the system and got
the Florida vote counted and certified Tuesday evening on
time. A far cry from Florida 2000 or Florida 2016 or WI,
MI, PA, GA this year.

What's the definition of "on time"? Doesn't that vary state
by state?



The actual statutes or the 2020 ad hoc revisions? Two very different
things.

Article II Section 2 says the legislature of each State has complete
authority, not Governors, judges or election boards.
Judges obviously have a place in deciding the meaning of laws. That's
why they exist. Election boards and governors often have authority given
to them by legislators. This is normal and correct.

There have been some abuses in the past (see below*), there will be some
abuses in the future, but in elections watched as closely as this one,
it seems very unlikely there's been truly significant wrongdoing so far.

AFAIK there is no law claiming that vote counting must be stopped before
all legally cast ballots are counted - which is what Trump is trying to say.

* Remember the Diebold controversy in Ohio in 2004? "I am committed to
helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president." And
Diebold's machines didn't work right in heavily Democratic areas, and
exit polls differed greatly from machine vote counts, which did indeed
get "delivered" to Bush.

https://columbusfreepress.com/articl...ohio-elections

Frank, I realize that you only like the laws that benefit you but the law was clear, judges and governors have NO control of election laws in some states - election laws are set but the representatives of the people and not the representatives of the government.

On 11/6/2020 8:50 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2020 2:55 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2020 17:00:24 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/5/2020 4:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 3:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 12:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/5/2020 10:17 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 3:56:20 PM UTC, Andre
Jute wrote:
“The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.â€
-- Joseph Stalin, 1923

Looks like the Donkey Party Election Fraud Unit is
working overtime to prove Uncle Joe right.

Andre Jute
* From Stalin's grave there's a clear view of his wife
Nadia's grave. She committed suicide because she could
no longer bear living with him.

Here's a good one. The people of Wisconsin are
especially civic-minded, well known for their exception
voting prowess:

Wisconsin reports 3,684,726 active registered voters.

They counted 3,288,771 votes.

89% turnout?

Joe Stalin might not have questioned 89% turnout, but
in a semi-free, supposedly democratic country with a
long, long history of near-indifference from actual
voters? As the Other Joe will say, "Come on, man!"

Andre Jute
It's the stuff of standup comedy before an audience of
statisticians.

Sorta true sorta not. Actually it's worse.

Three governors ago we had a different commie regime and
that's when they started 'register while voting', an open
invitation to fraud. In my county, one must show photo
ID to
get a ballot at the polls. Not so in Milwaukee County and
other leftie areas. A guy could just show up, make up a
name
and address, and vote in every ward all day long without
ever being challenged. And so they do.

Not to mention mail-in frauds & thefts of all types:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...es/ar-BB1aFhiM




(note right wing source there. most of these are poorly
reported if at all)


https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11...lection-691855





The excellent Governor DeSantis canned Brenda Snipes and
other crooked county clerks, revamped the system and got
the Florida vote counted and certified Tuesday evening on
time. A far cry from Florida 2000 or Florida 2016 or WI,
MI, PA, GA this year.

What's the definition of "on time"? Doesn't that vary state
by state?



The actual statutes or the 2020 ad hoc revisions? Two very
different things.

Article II Section 2 says the legislature of each State
has complete authority, not Governors, judges or election
boards.

Judges obviously have a place in deciding the meaning of
laws. That's why they exist. Election boards and governors
often have authority given to them by legislators. This is
normal and correct.

There have been some abuses in the past (see below*), there
will be some abuses in the future, but in elections watched
as closely as this one, it seems very unlikely there's been
truly significant wrongdoing so far.

AFAIK there is no law claiming that vote counting must be
stopped before all legally cast ballots are counted - which
is what Trump is trying to say.

* Remember the Diebold controversy in Ohio in 2004? "I am
committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the
president." And Diebold's machines didn't work right in
heavily Democratic areas, and exit polls differed greatly
from machine vote counts, which did indeed get "delivered"
to Bush.

https://columbusfreepress.com/articl...ohio-elections




Oh, don't mistake my comments for newly found partisan
outrage. I've been reading the Chicago Tribune for 50 years,
the running log of professionals and their craft.

Check out the story of Lyndon Johnson's first two elections
some time.
https://www.worldtribune.com/how-lan...-race-in-1948/


He stuffed ballots in 1941 but hie opponent stuffed more.
He learned from that and prevailed in 1948 after the war.

Yawn... Have a look at Louisiana politics. Huey Long who literally
ruled Louisiana like a king from 1928 to his assignation in 1935
almost immediately after overseeing the passing of a re-districting
plan to preventing political opponents from becoming judges.

Or even better, the career of "Mayor Curley" who was elected as an
Alderman while in prison for fraud and was elected to his 4th term as
Mayor of Boston while under indictment by a federal grand jury. He was
elected with 45% of the vote, was convicted and served 5 months. His
sentence was commuted and upon his return, "crowd of thousands greeted
Curley upon his return to Boston, with a brass band playing "Hail to
the Chief".


Yes, I'm sure we could do this all day long.

The idiot pronouncements of 'count every vote' are getting tiresome in
that they ignore the graveyard vote and duplicates which is where these
things are actually decided.

So many allegations. So little evidence.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 9:01:38 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 2:41:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 3:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 12:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/5/2020 10:17 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 3:56:20 PM UTC, Andre
Jute wrote:
“The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.â€
-- Joseph Stalin, 1923

Looks like the Donkey Party Election Fraud Unit is
working overtime to prove Uncle Joe right.

Andre Jute
From Stalin's grave there's a clear view of his wife
Nadia's grave. She committed suicide because she could
no longer bear living with him.

Here's a good one. The people of Wisconsin are
especially civic-minded, well known for their exception
voting prowess:

Wisconsin reports 3,684,726 active registered voters.

They counted 3,288,771 votes.

89% turnout?

Joe Stalin might not have questioned 89% turnout, but
in a semi-free, supposedly democratic country with a
long, long history of near-indifference from actual
voters? As the Other Joe will say, "Come on, man!"

Andre Jute
It's the stuff of standup comedy before an audience of
statisticians.

Sorta true sorta not. Actually it's worse.

Three governors ago we had a different commie regime and
that's when they started 'register while voting', an open
invitation to fraud. In my county, one must show photo
ID to
get a ballot at the polls. Not so in Milwaukee County and
other leftie areas. A guy could just show up, make up a
name
and address, and vote in every ward all day long without
ever being challenged. And so they do.

Not to mention mail-in frauds & thefts of all types:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...es/ar-BB1aFhiM



(note right wing source there. most of these are poorly
reported if at all)


https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11...lection-691855




The excellent Governor DeSantis canned Brenda Snipes and
other crooked county clerks, revamped the system and got
the Florida vote counted and certified Tuesday evening on
time. A far cry from Florida 2000 or Florida 2016 or WI,
MI, PA, GA this year.

What's the definition of "on time"? Doesn't that vary state
by state?



The actual statutes or the 2020 ad hoc revisions? Two very different
things.

Article II Section 2 says the legislature of each State has complete
authority, not Governors, judges or election boards.
Judges obviously have a place in deciding the meaning of laws. That's
why they exist. Election boards and governors often have authority given
to them by legislators. This is normal and correct.

There have been some abuses in the past (see below*), there will be some
abuses in the future, but in elections watched as closely as this one,
it seems very unlikely there's been truly significant wrongdoing so far..

AFAIK there is no law claiming that vote counting must be stopped before
all legally cast ballots are counted - which is what Trump is trying to say.

* Remember the Diebold controversy in Ohio in 2004? "I am committed to
helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president." And
Diebold's machines didn't work right in heavily Democratic areas, and
exit polls differed greatly from machine vote counts, which did indeed
get "delivered" to Bush.

https://columbusfreepress.com/articl...ohio-elections

Frank, I realize that you only like the laws that benefit you but the law was clear, judges and governors have NO control of election laws in some states - election laws are set but the representatives of the people and not the representatives of the government.

Except when the representatives of the people delegate to the representatives of the government, which happens all the time, particularly with election laws. I'm sure you know all about election laws and the doctrine of legislative delegation, so continue to pontificate.

Courts also have leeway to construe statutes or limit the operation of statutes to prevent them from violating the state or federal constitution under specific circumstances - so-called "as applied" challenges. I'm sure you know all about that -- but since you are so thirsty for real knowledge, read this: https://www.scotusblog.com/wp-conten...03e99643-1.pdf It is the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's opinion in the voting law case. Ooooooh, look at them: http://www.pacourts.us/courts/supreme-court/ Clearly Marxists. I love the CJ's sash. I want one of those. By the way, he's a Republican -- elected in a partisan election (which is weird). He concurred with a minor dissent: http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinio...66751.pdf?cb=1

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 11:55:16 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 9:01:38 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 2:41:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 3:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 12:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/5/2020 10:17 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 3:56:20 PM UTC, Andre
Jute wrote:
“The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.â€
-- Joseph Stalin, 1923

Looks like the Donkey Party Election Fraud Unit is
working overtime to prove Uncle Joe right.

Andre Jute
From Stalin's grave there's a clear view of his wife
Nadia's grave. She committed suicide because she could
no longer bear living with him.

Here's a good one. The people of Wisconsin are
especially civic-minded, well known for their exception
voting prowess:

Wisconsin reports 3,684,726 active registered voters.

They counted 3,288,771 votes.

89% turnout?

Joe Stalin might not have questioned 89% turnout, but
in a semi-free, supposedly democratic country with a
long, long history of near-indifference from actual
voters? As the Other Joe will say, "Come on, man!"

Andre Jute
It's the stuff of standup comedy before an audience of
statisticians.

Sorta true sorta not. Actually it's worse.

Three governors ago we had a different commie regime and
that's when they started 'register while voting', an open
invitation to fraud. In my county, one must show photo
ID to
get a ballot at the polls. Not so in Milwaukee County and
other leftie areas. A guy could just show up, make up a
name
and address, and vote in every ward all day long without
ever being challenged. And so they do.

Not to mention mail-in frauds & thefts of all types:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...es/ar-BB1aFhiM



(note right wing source there. most of these are poorly
reported if at all)


https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11...lection-691855




The excellent Governor DeSantis canned Brenda Snipes and
other crooked county clerks, revamped the system and got
the Florida vote counted and certified Tuesday evening on
time. A far cry from Florida 2000 or Florida 2016 or WI,
MI, PA, GA this year.

What's the definition of "on time"? Doesn't that vary state
by state?



The actual statutes or the 2020 ad hoc revisions? Two very different
things.

Article II Section 2 says the legislature of each State has complete
authority, not Governors, judges or election boards.
Judges obviously have a place in deciding the meaning of laws. That's
why they exist. Election boards and governors often have authority given
to them by legislators. This is normal and correct.

There have been some abuses in the past (see below*), there will be some
abuses in the future, but in elections watched as closely as this one,
it seems very unlikely there's been truly significant wrongdoing so far.

AFAIK there is no law claiming that vote counting must be stopped before
all legally cast ballots are counted - which is what Trump is trying to say.

* Remember the Diebold controversy in Ohio in 2004? "I am committed to
helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president." And
Diebold's machines didn't work right in heavily Democratic areas, and
exit polls differed greatly from machine vote counts, which did indeed
get "delivered" to Bush.

https://columbusfreepress.com/articl...ohio-elections

Frank, I realize that you only like the laws that benefit you but the law was clear, judges and governors have NO control of election laws in some states - election laws are set but the representatives of the people and not the representatives of the government.
Except when the representatives of the people delegate to the representatives of the government, which happens all the time, particularly with election laws. I'm sure you know all about election laws and the doctrine of legislative delegation, so continue to pontificate.

Courts also have leeway to construe statutes or limit the operation of statutes to prevent them from violating the state or federal constitution under specific circumstances - so-called "as applied" challenges. I'm sure you know all about that -- but since you are so thirsty for real knowledge, read this: https://www.scotusblog.com/wp-conten...03e99643-1.pdf It is the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's opinion in the voting law case. Ooooooh, look at them: http://www.pacourts.us/courts/supreme-court/ Clearly Marxists. I love the CJ's sash. I want one of those. By the way, he's a Republican -- elected in a partisan election (which is weird). He concurred with a minor dissent: http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinio...66751.pdf?cb=1

Exactly what the hell are you arguing, Jay? That state legislatures do not have the right to represent their electorate?

Legislators do not enforce the laws, they make them. Courts may not over-rule those laws unless they are determined to be unConstitutional. Unless that occurs you're stuck. So please don't play your lawyerly games.

On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 5:10:12 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:

So many allegations. So little evidence.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Here's a Philly judge of elections confessing to and being convicted of election fraud. In May of this year.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/voter-...-20200521.html

Andre Jute
Gee, who woulda thought the Philly Enquirer is a right-wing rang making up lies about angelic Donkey Party asses just to embarrass Franki-boy.

On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 2:44:53 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 5:10:12 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:

So many allegations. So little evidence.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Here's a Philly judge of elections confessing to and being convicted of election fraud. In May of this year.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/voter-...-20200521.html

Andre Jute
Gee, who woulda thought the Philly Enquirer is a right-wing rang making up lies about angelic Donkey Party asses just to embarrass Franki-boy.

Wow:

"McSwain said DeMuro added between 27 to 46 fraudulent ballots during the three years of elections focused on by the investigation. While the numbers sound small, they represented 22% of the total votes cast in DeMuro's division in 2014, 15% in 2015 and 17% of the votes in 2016."

27-46 votes over three years? 9-16 votes per year. O.K., we'll spot Trump 16 votes. Interestingly, the fraudulent 27-46 votes were done in person:

“DeMuro fraudulently stuffed the ballot box by literally standing in a voting booth and voting over and over, as fast as he could, while he thought the coast was clear. This is utterly reprehensible conduct. The charges announced today do not erase what he did, but they do ensure that he is held to account for those actions,� U.S. Attorney William M. McSwain said."

This is clear evidence of large-scale mail-in ballot fraud. Thank you Andre for uncovering this conspiracy.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 12:15:30 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 11:55:16 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 9:01:38 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 2:41:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 3:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 12:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/5/2020 10:17 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 3:56:20 PM UTC, Andre
Jute wrote:
“The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.â€
-- Joseph Stalin, 1923

Looks like the Donkey Party Election Fraud Unit is
working overtime to prove Uncle Joe right.

Andre Jute
From Stalin's grave there's a clear view of his wife
Nadia's grave. She committed suicide because she could
no longer bear living with him.

Here's a good one. The people of Wisconsin are
especially civic-minded, well known for their exception
voting prowess:

Wisconsin reports 3,684,726 active registered voters.

They counted 3,288,771 votes.

89% turnout?

Joe Stalin might not have questioned 89% turnout, but
in a semi-free, supposedly democratic country with a
long, long history of near-indifference from actual
voters? As the Other Joe will say, "Come on, man!"

Andre Jute
It's the stuff of standup comedy before an audience of
statisticians.

Sorta true sorta not. Actually it's worse.

Three governors ago we had a different commie regime and
that's when they started 'register while voting', an open
invitation to fraud. In my county, one must show photo
ID to
get a ballot at the polls. Not so in Milwaukee County and
other leftie areas. A guy could just show up, make up a
name
and address, and vote in every ward all day long without
ever being challenged. And so they do.

Not to mention mail-in frauds & thefts of all types:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...es/ar-BB1aFhiM



(note right wing source there. most of these are poorly
reported if at all)


https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11...lection-691855




The excellent Governor DeSantis canned Brenda Snipes and
other crooked county clerks, revamped the system and got
the Florida vote counted and certified Tuesday evening on
time. A far cry from Florida 2000 or Florida 2016 or WI,
MI, PA, GA this year.

What's the definition of "on time"? Doesn't that vary state
by state?



The actual statutes or the 2020 ad hoc revisions? Two very different
things.

Article II Section 2 says the legislature of each State has complete
authority, not Governors, judges or election boards.
Judges obviously have a place in deciding the meaning of laws. That's
why they exist. Election boards and governors often have authority given
to them by legislators. This is normal and correct.

There have been some abuses in the past (see below*), there will be some
abuses in the future, but in elections watched as closely as this one,
it seems very unlikely there's been truly significant wrongdoing so far.

AFAIK there is no law claiming that vote counting must be stopped before
all legally cast ballots are counted - which is what Trump is trying to say.

* Remember the Diebold controversy in Ohio in 2004? "I am committed to
helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president." And
Diebold's machines didn't work right in heavily Democratic areas, and
exit polls differed greatly from machine vote counts, which did indeed
get "delivered" to Bush.

https://columbusfreepress.com/articl...ohio-elections

Frank, I realize that you only like the laws that benefit you but the law was clear, judges and governors have NO control of election laws in some states - election laws are set but the representatives of the people and not the representatives of the government.
Except when the representatives of the people delegate to the representatives of the government, which happens all the time, particularly with election laws. I'm sure you know all about election laws and the doctrine of legislative delegation, so continue to pontificate.

Courts also have leeway to construe statutes or limit the operation of statutes to prevent them from violating the state or federal constitution under specific circumstances - so-called "as applied" challenges. I'm sure you know all about that -- but since you are so thirsty for real knowledge, read this: https://www.scotusblog.com/wp-conten...03e99643-1.pdf It is the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's opinion in the voting law case. Ooooooh, look at them: http://www.pacourts.us/courts/supreme-court/ Clearly Marxists. I love the CJ's sash. I want one of those. By the way, he's a Republican -- elected in a partisan election (which is weird). He concurred with a minor dissent: http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinio...66751.pdf?cb=1

Exactly what the hell are you arguing, Jay? That state legislatures do not have the right to represent their electorate?

Legislators do not enforce the laws, they make them. Courts may not over-rule those laws unless they are determined to be unConstitutional. Unless that occurs you're stuck. So please don't play your lawyerly games.

I'm arguing that you're a dope who never reads any of the links I post. If you had, you would know that the Pennsylvania election law case was an as-applied constitutional challenge. The Pennsylvania SC was doing exactly what courts should do, i.e., determine whether a law, as applied, is unconstitutional. Hardly a lawyerly game unless reading comprehension is a lawerly game.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Fri, 06 Nov 2020 07:50:11 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/6/2020 2:55 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2020 17:00:24 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/5/2020 4:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 3:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 12:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/5/2020 10:17 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 3:56:20 PM UTC, Andre
Jute wrote:
“The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.â€
-- Joseph Stalin, 1923

Looks like the Donkey Party Election Fraud Unit is
working overtime to prove Uncle Joe right.

Andre Jute
From Stalin's grave there's a clear view of his wife
Nadia's grave. She committed suicide because she could
no longer bear living with him.

Here's a good one. The people of Wisconsin are
especially civic-minded, well known for their exception
voting prowess:

Wisconsin reports 3,684,726 active registered voters.

They counted 3,288,771 votes.

89% turnout?

Joe Stalin might not have questioned 89% turnout, but
in a semi-free, supposedly democratic country with a
long, long history of near-indifference from actual
voters? As the Other Joe will say, "Come on, man!"

Andre Jute
It's the stuff of standup comedy before an audience of
statisticians.

Sorta true sorta not. Actually it's worse.

Three governors ago we had a different commie regime and
that's when they started 'register while voting', an open
invitation to fraud. In my county, one must show photo
ID to
get a ballot at the polls. Not so in Milwaukee County and
other leftie areas. A guy could just show up, make up a
name
and address, and vote in every ward all day long without
ever being challenged. And so they do.

Not to mention mail-in frauds & thefts of all types:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...es/ar-BB1aFhiM



(note right wing source there. most of these are poorly
reported if at all)


https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11...lection-691855




The excellent Governor DeSantis canned Brenda Snipes and
other crooked county clerks, revamped the system and got
the Florida vote counted and certified Tuesday evening on
time. A far cry from Florida 2000 or Florida 2016 or WI,
MI, PA, GA this year.

What's the definition of "on time"? Doesn't that vary state
by state?



The actual statutes or the 2020 ad hoc revisions? Two very
different things.

Article II Section 2 says the legislature of each State
has complete authority, not Governors, judges or election
boards.

Judges obviously have a place in deciding the meaning of
laws. That's why they exist. Election boards and governors
often have authority given to them by legislators. This is
normal and correct.

There have been some abuses in the past (see below*), there
will be some abuses in the future, but in elections watched
as closely as this one, it seems very unlikely there's been
truly significant wrongdoing so far.

AFAIK there is no law claiming that vote counting must be
stopped before all legally cast ballots are counted - which
is what Trump is trying to say.

* Remember the Diebold controversy in Ohio in 2004? "I am
committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the
president." And Diebold's machines didn't work right in
heavily Democratic areas, and exit polls differed greatly
from machine vote counts, which did indeed get "delivered"
to Bush.

https://columbusfreepress.com/articl...ohio-elections



Oh, don't mistake my comments for newly found partisan
outrage. I've been reading the Chicago Tribune for 50 years,
the running log of professionals and their craft.

Check out the story of Lyndon Johnson's first two elections
some time.
https://www.worldtribune.com/how-lan...-race-in-1948/

He stuffed ballots in 1941 but hie opponent stuffed more.
He learned from that and prevailed in 1948 after the war.

Yawn... Have a look at Louisiana politics. Huey Long who literally
ruled Louisiana like a king from 1928 to his assignation in 1935
almost immediately after overseeing the passing of a re-districting
plan to preventing political opponents from becoming judges.

Or even better, the career of "Mayor Curley" who was elected as an
Alderman while in prison for fraud and was elected to his 4th term as
Mayor of Boston while under indictment by a federal grand jury. He was
elected with 45% of the vote, was convicted and served 5 months. His
sentence was commuted and upon his return, "crowd of thousands greeted
Curley upon his return to Boston, with a brass band playing "Hail to
the Chief".


Yes, I'm sure we could do this all day long.

The idiot pronouncements of 'count every vote' are getting
tiresome in that they ignore the graveyard vote and
duplicates which is where these things are actually decided.


I really wonder about all this voter controversy in the U.S. Here -
Thailand - it seems unheard of, or at least I have never heard of any
mention in the news. Here everyone has two documents, an
Identification Card with picture and a Resident Document showing where
you reside. The Voter List is prepared by the district office where
you are a registered resident. You go to the voting location in your
district and show your I.D. card, they check your name off the list
and give you a ballot. No dead voters as part of the processing of a
death certificate is notification to the resident registration office.

But to be honest, vote buying is common, at least in the country and
small towns. My wife says that when she was a little girl the vote
buyers came to town, rented a room from someone and set up for
business openly. They were rich folks too, you could tell because they
wore shoes :-)

But, in essence, what is the difference? "Vote for me and I'll make
the minimum salary $15!" Or, "Vote for me man and I'll give you money
right now!". I'd guess that if you tried it out the "Gimme the money
Now!" bunch would far outweigh the rest.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 6 Nov 2020 16:15:55 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 12:15:30 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 11:55:16 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 9:01:38 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 2:41:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 3:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2020 1:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2020 12:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-8, AMuzi
wrote:
On 11/5/2020 10:17 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 3:56:20 PM UTC, Andre
Jute wrote:
“The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.â€
-- Joseph Stalin, 1923

Looks like the Donkey Party Election Fraud Unit is
working overtime to prove Uncle Joe right.

Andre Jute
From Stalin's grave there's a clear view of his wife
Nadia's grave. She committed suicide because she could
no longer bear living with him.

Here's a good one. The people of Wisconsin are
especially civic-minded, well known for their exception
voting prowess:

Wisconsin reports 3,684,726 active registered voters.

They counted 3,288,771 votes.

89% turnout?

Joe Stalin might not have questioned 89% turnout, but
in a semi-free, supposedly democratic country with a
long, long history of near-indifference from actual
voters? As the Other Joe will say, "Come on, man!"

Andre Jute
It's the stuff of standup comedy before an audience of
statisticians.

Sorta true sorta not. Actually it's worse.

Three governors ago we had a different commie regime and
that's when they started 'register while voting', an open
invitation to fraud. In my county, one must show photo
ID to
get a ballot at the polls. Not so in Milwaukee County and
other leftie areas. A guy could just show up, make up a
name
and address, and vote in every ward all day long without
ever being challenged. And so they do.

Not to mention mail-in frauds & thefts of all types:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...es/ar-BB1aFhiM



(note right wing source there. most of these are poorly
reported if at all)


https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11...lection-691855




The excellent Governor DeSantis canned Brenda Snipes and
other crooked county clerks, revamped the system and got
the Florida vote counted and certified Tuesday evening on
time. A far cry from Florida 2000 or Florida 2016 or WI,
MI, PA, GA this year.

What's the definition of "on time"? Doesn't that vary state
by state?



The actual statutes or the 2020 ad hoc revisions? Two very different
things.

Article II Section 2 says the legislature of each State has complete
authority, not Governors, judges or election boards.
Judges obviously have a place in deciding the meaning of laws. That's
why they exist. Election boards and governors often have authority given
to them by legislators. This is normal and correct.

There have been some abuses in the past (see below*), there will be some
abuses in the future, but in elections watched as closely as this one,
it seems very unlikely there's been truly significant wrongdoing so far.

AFAIK there is no law claiming that vote counting must be stopped before
all legally cast ballots are counted - which is what Trump is trying to say.

* Remember the Diebold controversy in Ohio in 2004? "I am committed to
helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president." And
Diebold's machines didn't work right in heavily Democratic areas, and
exit polls differed greatly from machine vote counts, which did indeed
get "delivered" to Bush.

https://columbusfreepress.com/articl...ohio-elections

Frank, I realize that you only like the laws that benefit you but the law was clear, judges and governors have NO control of election laws in some states - election laws are set but the representatives of the people and not the representatives of the government.
Except when the representatives of the people delegate to the representatives of the government, which happens all the time, particularly with election laws. I'm sure you know all about election laws and the doctrine of legislative delegation, so continue to pontificate.

Courts also have leeway to construe statutes or limit the operation of statutes to prevent them from violating the state or federal constitution under specific circumstances - so-called "as applied" challenges. I'm sure you know all about that -- but since you are so thirsty for real knowledge, read this: https://www.scotusblog.com/wp-conten...03e99643-1.pdf It is the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's opinion in the voting law case. Ooooooh, look at them: http://www.pacourts.us/courts/supreme-court/ Clearly Marxists. I love the CJ's sash. I want one of those. By the way, he's a Republican -- elected in a partisan election (which is weird). He concurred with a minor dissent: http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinio...66751.pdf?cb=1

Exactly what the hell are you arguing, Jay? That state legislatures do not have the right to represent their electorate?

Legislators do not enforce the laws, they make them. Courts may not over-rule those laws unless they are determined to be unConstitutional. Unless that occurs you're stuck. So please don't play your lawyerly games.

I'm arguing that you're a dope who never reads any of the links I post. If you had, you would know that the Pennsylvania election law case was an as-applied constitutional challenge. The Pennsylvania SC was doing exactly what courts should do, i.e., determine whether a law, as applied, is unconstitutional. Hardly a lawyerly game unless reading comprehension is a lawerly game.

-- Jay Beattie.


Well, basically it is, isn't it? A Lawyer reads AND comprehends :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.