Proper impeller play on a Union (Con-tec)dynamo?

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 2:24:27 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:12:02 PM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 14/11/2020 19:40, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2020 12:19 PM, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:06:42 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 11/14/2020 11:49 AM, landotter wrote:
I put a rear triangle dynamo on my retro roadster with a 50 lux
Cordo LED lamp and it's the tits. Works great, weighs eh nuttin, and
you can switch it 100% off. Cost about 12 bucks for the dynamo and
25 for the lamp. Oh boy. Big spender, but it kept the front wheel
looking bulgy hubbed and new fanglish. 50 lux is fifty lux. works
fine, but I wanna dial it in to get that edge riding across town to
pick up fava beans, ya know?

These days if you want a new silver olde timey looking jobber it's
an AXA 8201 or the Con-tec DL-150. Both are a tenner and a bit. The
Con-tec appears to be a rebranded Union-Marwi and the "U" on the
spring cover is kind of a giveaway AND it comes with a little
impeller cover, so it won out.

I dripped a single drop of oil down the impeller shaft and then put
a glob of red Sta-Plex grease on top of the bushing before putting
on the roller and lock nut. Friction really ain't anything now.
Spins like the dickens. Doesn't get hot. It's happy on a real dynamo
track on a Schwalbe tire without too much pressure.

But it still rattles a bit. I reckon it's the simple bearing
whacking against the bushing. Would adjusting play even matter? I'v
got it at a generous couple millimeters.

My solution has been to listen to quiz shows at a medium volume and
enjoying that the rattle has probably extended the life of my Crane
bell as pedestrians seem very irritated by it.
A couple millimeters end play sounds really excessive. My similar
dynamos are adjusted for near zero end play.


--
- Frank Krygowski


I'll dial it in tightish and give it a whirl tonight. Seeing as there
are no ball bearings and the impeller follows tire imperfections, I
figured it might be one of those situations where a little slop was good.

My weird theory is that it's not terribly important on a consumable
dynamo but what's happening is that the LED draw is so little that the
magnety spinny action isn't as strong to keep it centered in the bushing.

It's a silly chasing rainbows thing as my bicycle is otherwise a
silent appliance. Hahaha!


Most have a simple bronze journal, not a ball bearing. They do run much
better with firm pressure than with occasional slip.
I may be wrong, but istr the nordlicht dynamos were ball bearing. I
never found a bottle dynamo that didn't slip under some ****ty weather
condition although the Nordlicht was quite good for its genre.

I used a spoke dynamo for a while, they don't slip :-)
I agree with you. I never saw a bottle dynamo that also didn't wear the tires out rapidly. Installing a hub dynamo was like a new world. I can't remember clearly but I think that I had a multispeed hub with a dynamo built into it as well.

I've never seen a properly installed bottle wear out a tire and I grew up with them so saw a ****ton in Sweden. Of course the incandescent lamps were pretty terrible and the halogens a mild improvement. LED changes everything..

Wheel dynamos will always drag, look fugly as hell, cost a heck of a lot more, and never really are weather resistant. Yeah, they're standard on even 6-700 bikes now in Sweden along with the ubiquitous Shimano Nexus 3 which is also a disaster when it comes to weather. I run a Nexus too, but redid it with all fresh stainless balls and thick Sta-Plex grease with a little oil on the pawl pivots. A far better solution than Shimano hub grease, which is the same drippy white lithium used in cotton pickers. You can buy it by the gallon at the Tractor supply for cheap.

Hub dynamos are fine for low mileage bikes at the 50 buck price point. If you're doing brevets, you'll want something German of course that's gonna be a few hundred bux with a couple Schmitty lights as well.

A bottle dynamo running a cheap and cheerful 35-70 lux LED light runs with very little drag and really has no drawbacks if one has the slightest mechanical ability. It's the perfect fit and forget part. You can always have a strap on battery light for those times you want to do more silent urban riding, but the bottle will always be there.

I don't like new fangled that just introduces new problems that are smaller and more of a pain in the ass. It's like cartridge headsets for most non-mtb riding. They're usually fine, but if there's an issue, it's always dumb. Loose balls and marine grease are last century and can be fixed with a rock.

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 2:50:54 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:39:40 PM UTC-8, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 1:21:55 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 8:49:22 AM UTC-8, landotter wrote:
I put a rear triangle dynamo on my retro roadster with a 50 lux Cordo LED lamp and it's the tits. Works great, weighs eh nuttin, and you can switch it 100% off. Cost about 12 bucks for the dynamo and 25 for the lamp. Oh boy. Big spender, but it kept the front wheel looking bulgy hubbed and new fanglish. 50 lux is fifty lux. works fine, but I wanna dial it in to get that edge riding across town to pick up fava beans, ya know?

These days if you want a new silver olde timey looking jobber it's an AXA 8201 or the Con-tec DL-150. Both are a tenner and a bit. The Con-tec appears to be a rebranded Union-Marwi and the "U" on the spring cover is kind of a giveaway AND it comes with a little impeller cover, so it won out.

I dripped a single drop of oil down the impeller shaft and then put a glob of red Sta-Plex grease on top of the bushing before putting on the roller and lock nut. Friction really ain't anything now. Spins like the dickens. Doesn't get hot. It's happy on a real dynamo track on a Schwalbe tire without too much pressure.

But it still rattles a bit. I reckon it's the simple bearing whacking against the bushing. Would adjusting play even matter? I'v got it at a generous couple millimeters.

My solution has been to listen to quiz shows at a medium volume and enjoying that the rattle has probably extended the life of my Crane bell as pedestrians seem very irritated by it.
Be careful not to aim those LED lights too high. You can blind oncoming traffic.
It's aimed to throw a beam at the ground that's appropriate for around 12-15mph riding on deadass dark paths. Mounted at the crown as lights should be.

I'm more highly irritated at flashing lights of any fashion. I don't have epilepsy but they still make me jerky. Germans do not approve.
Around here as long as you're polite with your lighting (we don't have bike paths as a rule that go anywhere) people give you a lot of clearance in the dark early morning. I would not ride on the streets between 2pm when the bars close and 4 pm when the Hispanics are tired of shooting each other.

I'll tell my Latino relatives to stop shooting the guns they don't own if you can tell the white folks to stop killing people. Deal, asshole?

On 14/11/2020 21:52, landotter wrote:

snip

Hub dynamos are fine for low mileage bikes at the 50 buck price
point. If you're doing brevets, you'll want something German of
course that's gonna be a few hundred bux with a couple Schmitty
lights as well.

That's weird, I have one of these;

https://www.amazon.de/SHIMANO-Fahrra.../dp/B07D33ZW4N
(26 euros delivered free)

Still going strong approaching 40,000km. In fact it and it's rim are
the only original parts of that bike i think.

snip

On 11/14/2020 3:11 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 14/11/2020 19:40, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2020 12:19 PM, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:06:42 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 11/14/2020 11:49 AM, landotter wrote:
I put a rear triangle dynamo on my retro roadster with a 50 lux
Cordo LED lamp and it's the tits. Works great, weighs eh nuttin,
and you can switch it 100% off. Cost about 12 bucks for the dynamo
and 25 for the lamp. Oh boy. Big spender, but it kept the front
wheel looking bulgy hubbed and new fanglish. 50 lux is fifty lux.
works fine, but I wanna dial it in to get that edge riding across
town to pick up fava beans, ya know?

These days if you want a new silver olde timey looking jobber it's
an AXA 8201 or the Con-tec DL-150. Both are a tenner and a bit. The
Con-tec appears to be a rebranded Union-Marwi and the "U" on the
spring cover is kind of a giveaway AND it comes with a little
impeller cover, so it won out.

I dripped a single drop of oil down the impeller shaft and then put
a glob of red Sta-Plex grease on top of the bushing before putting
on the roller and lock nut. Friction really ain't anything now.
Spins like the dickens. Doesn't get hot. It's happy on a real
dynamo track on a Schwalbe tire without too much pressure.

But it still rattles a bit. I reckon it's the simple bearing
whacking against the bushing. Would adjusting play even matter? I'v
got it at a generous couple millimeters.

My solution has been to listen to quiz shows at a medium volume and
enjoying that the rattle has probably extended the life of my Crane
bell as pedestrians seem very irritated by it.
A couple millimeters end play sounds really excessive. My similar
dynamos are adjusted for near zero end play.


--
- Frank Krygowski


I'll dial it in tightish and give it a whirl tonight. Seeing as there
are no ball bearings and the impeller follows tire imperfections, I
figured it might be one of those situations where a little slop was
good.

My weird theory is that it's not terribly important on a consumable
dynamo but what's happening is that the LED draw is so little that
the magnety spinny action isn't as strong to keep it centered in the
bushing.

It's a silly chasing rainbows thing as my bicycle is otherwise a
silent appliance. Hahaha!


Most have a simple bronze journal, not a ball bearing.Â* They do run
much better with firm pressure than with occasional slip.

I may be wrong, but istr the nordlicht dynamos were ball bearing.Â* I
never found a bottle dynamo that didn't slip under some ****ty weather
condition although the Nordlicht was quite good for its genre.

I used a spoke dynamo for a while, they don't slip :-)

I used one for just a while. It seemed to be designed by Rube Goldberg,
and as I recall ran with considerable noise. But based just on coasting
speeds, it was actually more efficient than other dynos I had, except
hub dynos.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/14/2020 3:52 PM, landotter wrote:

A bottle dynamo running a cheap and cheerful 35-70 lux LED light runs with very little drag and really has no drawbacks if one has the slightest mechanical ability. It's the perfect fit and forget part. You can always have a strap on battery light for those times you want to do more silent urban riding, but the bottle will always be there.

As I've mentioned, I've chucked the drive rollers of such dynos into a
lathe and cut a groove to hold a thick O-ring. I then set up the dynos
so the O-ring rolls on the rim's braking surface instead of the tire.
It's remarkably quiet, and may be a bit less prone to slip. I'll admit,
though, I rarely ride in the rain at night.

Regarding mechanical ability: I've learned that it's surprisingly
lacking in many otherwise intelligent people. But a bottle dyno also
requires a smidgen of electrical ability. I always double-wire them
instead of using the bike frame as a conductor. I did that when I
installed one for a dear friend.

Much later, I was asked to repair it. Her boyfriend fussed with it and
it no longer worked. Turned out he'd crossed the wires without realizing
it, shorting the output. And he is an electrical engineer!


I don't like new fangled that just introduces new problems that are smaller and more of a pain in the ass. It's like cartridge headsets for most non-mtb riding. They're usually fine, but if there's an issue, it's always dumb. Loose balls and marine grease are last century and can be fixed with a rock.

The Repair Manifesto:
https://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:54:20 PM UTC-8, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 2:50:54 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:39:40 PM UTC-8, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 1:21:55 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 8:49:22 AM UTC-8, landotter wrote:
I put a rear triangle dynamo on my retro roadster with a 50 lux Cordo LED lamp and it's the tits. Works great, weighs eh nuttin, and you can switch it 100% off. Cost about 12 bucks for the dynamo and 25 for the lamp.. Oh boy. Big spender, but it kept the front wheel looking bulgy hubbed and new fanglish. 50 lux is fifty lux. works fine, but I wanna dial it in to get that edge riding across town to pick up fava beans, ya know?

These days if you want a new silver olde timey looking jobber it's an AXA 8201 or the Con-tec DL-150. Both are a tenner and a bit. The Con-tec appears to be a rebranded Union-Marwi and the "U" on the spring cover is kind of a giveaway AND it comes with a little impeller cover, so it won out.

I dripped a single drop of oil down the impeller shaft and then put a glob of red Sta-Plex grease on top of the bushing before putting on the roller and lock nut. Friction really ain't anything now. Spins like the dickens. Doesn't get hot. It's happy on a real dynamo track on a Schwalbe tire without too much pressure.

But it still rattles a bit. I reckon it's the simple bearing whacking against the bushing. Would adjusting play even matter? I'v got it at a generous couple millimeters.

My solution has been to listen to quiz shows at a medium volume and enjoying that the rattle has probably extended the life of my Crane bell as pedestrians seem very irritated by it.
Be careful not to aim those LED lights too high. You can blind oncoming traffic.
It's aimed to throw a beam at the ground that's appropriate for around 12-15mph riding on deadass dark paths. Mounted at the crown as lights should be.

I'm more highly irritated at flashing lights of any fashion. I don't have epilepsy but they still make me jerky. Germans do not approve.
Around here as long as you're polite with your lighting (we don't have bike paths as a rule that go anywhere) people give you a lot of clearance in the dark early morning. I would not ride on the streets between 2pm when the bars close and 4 pm when the Hispanics are tired of shooting each other..
I'll tell my Latino relatives to stop shooting the guns they don't own if you can tell the white folks to stop killing people. Deal, asshole?
Tell me where in the San Francisco bay area there are white people killing people and I will be sure to avoid those areas as well. The problem is that where you have white neighborhoods the only shooting that goes on is Hispanic illegals shooting at each other as they speed through. Or perhaps you think I don't know the place
I have lived for 76 years? While this are is supposedly 50% whites and only 15% Hispanics and only 6.1% blacks, blacks commit more murders than all of the rest of the racial groups combined and Hispanics commit as many murders as the entire white population. Please don't give me any of that racist crap because the statistics don't lie. I'm the one that has to listen to gunshots in the middle of the night as Hispanics are racing down the Freeway and shooting at each other.

On 11/14/2020 5:10 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I'm the one that has to listen to gunshots in the middle of the night as Hispanics are racing down the Freeway and shooting at each other.

What a miserable existence!

But you seem to revel in bragging about how bad it is, instead of taking
steps to move out of that hell hole.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 14/11/2020 23:16, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2020 5:10 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
Â*I'm the one that has to listen to gunshots in the middle of the night
as Hispanics are racing down the Freeway and shooting at each other.

What a miserable existence!

But you seem to revel in bragging about how bad it is, instead of taking
steps to move out of that hell hole.

Blame everyone but yourself. The typical right wing stance.

On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 2:19:20 AM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 14/11/2020 23:16, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2020 5:10 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I'm the one that has to listen to gunshots in the middle of the night
as Hispanics are racing down the Freeway and shooting at each other.

What a miserable existence!

But you seem to revel in bragging about how bad it is, instead of taking
steps to move out of that hell hole.
Blame everyone but yourself. The typical right wing stance.
OK I give up, just try and explain that statement.

On 11/14/2020 2:52 PM, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 2:24:27 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:12:02 PM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 14/11/2020 19:40, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2020 12:19 PM, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:06:42 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 11/14/2020 11:49 AM, landotter wrote:
I put a rear triangle dynamo on my retro roadster with a 50 lux
Cordo LED lamp and it's the tits. Works great, weighs eh nuttin, and
you can switch it 100% off. Cost about 12 bucks for the dynamo and
25 for the lamp. Oh boy. Big spender, but it kept the front wheel
looking bulgy hubbed and new fanglish. 50 lux is fifty lux. works
fine, but I wanna dial it in to get that edge riding across town to
pick up fava beans, ya know?

These days if you want a new silver olde timey looking jobber it's
an AXA 8201 or the Con-tec DL-150. Both are a tenner and a bit. The
Con-tec appears to be a rebranded Union-Marwi and the "U" on the
spring cover is kind of a giveaway AND it comes with a little
impeller cover, so it won out.

I dripped a single drop of oil down the impeller shaft and then put
a glob of red Sta-Plex grease on top of the bushing before putting
on the roller and lock nut. Friction really ain't anything now.
Spins like the dickens. Doesn't get hot. It's happy on a real dynamo
track on a Schwalbe tire without too much pressure.

But it still rattles a bit. I reckon it's the simple bearing
whacking against the bushing. Would adjusting play even matter? I'v
got it at a generous couple millimeters.

My solution has been to listen to quiz shows at a medium volume and
enjoying that the rattle has probably extended the life of my Crane
bell as pedestrians seem very irritated by it.
A couple millimeters end play sounds really excessive. My similar
dynamos are adjusted for near zero end play.


--
- Frank Krygowski


I'll dial it in tightish and give it a whirl tonight. Seeing as there
are no ball bearings and the impeller follows tire imperfections, I
figured it might be one of those situations where a little slop was good.

My weird theory is that it's not terribly important on a consumable
dynamo but what's happening is that the LED draw is so little that the
magnety spinny action isn't as strong to keep it centered in the bushing.

It's a silly chasing rainbows thing as my bicycle is otherwise a
silent appliance. Hahaha!


Most have a simple bronze journal, not a ball bearing. They do run much
better with firm pressure than with occasional slip.
I may be wrong, but istr the nordlicht dynamos were ball bearing. I
never found a bottle dynamo that didn't slip under some ****ty weather
condition although the Nordlicht was quite good for its genre.

I used a spoke dynamo for a while, they don't slip :-)
I agree with you. I never saw a bottle dynamo that also didn't wear the tires out rapidly. Installing a hub dynamo was like a new world. I can't remember clearly but I think that I had a multispeed hub with a dynamo built into it as well.

I've never seen a properly installed bottle wear out a tire and I grew up with them so saw a ****ton in Sweden. Of course the incandescent lamps were pretty terrible and the halogens a mild improvement. LED changes everything.

Wheel dynamos will always drag, look fugly as hell, cost a heck of a lot more, and never really are weather resistant. Yeah, they're standard on even 6-700 bikes now in Sweden along with the ubiquitous Shimano Nexus 3 which is also a disaster when it comes to weather. I run a Nexus too, but redid it with all fresh stainless balls and thick Sta-Plex grease with a little oil on the pawl pivots. A far better solution than Shimano hub grease, which is the same drippy white lithium used in cotton pickers. You can buy it by the gallon at the Tractor supply for cheap.

Hub dynamos are fine for low mileage bikes at the 50 buck price point. If you're doing brevets, you'll want something German of course that's gonna be a few hundred bux with a couple Schmitty lights as well.

A bottle dynamo running a cheap and cheerful 35-70 lux LED light runs with very little drag and really has no drawbacks if one has the slightest mechanical ability. It's the perfect fit and forget part. You can always have a strap on battery light for those times you want to do more silent urban riding, but the bottle will always be there.

I don't like new fangled that just introduces new problems that are smaller and more of a pain in the ass. It's like cartridge headsets for most non-mtb riding. They're usually fine, but if there's an issue, it's always dumb. Loose balls and marine grease are last century and can be fixed with a rock.



+1 on that dynamo & tire wear. I've only seen that in rare
cases of gross misalignment.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971