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  #1  
Old November 23rd 20, 04:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Default Not Lance

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI

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Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  #2  
Old November 23rd 20, 06:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark Cleary[_3_]
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Default Not Lance

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:03:59 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Serious question, do you think he doped? It seems that everyone in cycling did or does but maybe I believe Greg. Andrew I also have question for you? Do you ride a lot?
Deacon Mark
  #3  
Old November 23rd 20, 06:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Default Not Lance

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:03:59 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Serious question, do you think he doped? It seems that everyone in cycling did or does but maybe I believe Greg. Andrew I also have question for you? Do you ride a lot?


At the time that Greg was shot in that hunting accident the blood banking system was shut down was we were looking for the cause of AIDS which we knew was being caused by transfusions. But we didn't know the source of it.

Lemond had EXTREME loss of blood which normally requires many months without hard physical activity, careful diet and lots of water. Yet the following year he went from no-competitive in the early Spanish races to winning the Tour de France.

About this time synthetic EPO was developed. He could have been administered this. He might not even known that he was being administered this. But since it most assuredly would have been by doctors prescription and for a real physical problem I would not have considered that "doping" any more than using Morphine on a cyclist with a debilitating injury during recovery to be doping either.

So is there a possibility that Lemond used EPO? Yes, but was it doping? No, he would NOT have been using it to get an advantage but to return to normal.
  #4  
Old November 23rd 20, 06:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,352
Default Not Lance

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:33:19 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:03:59 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Serious question, do you think he doped? It seems that everyone in cycling did or does but maybe I believe Greg. Andrew I also have question for you? Do you ride a lot?

At the time that Greg was shot in that hunting accident the blood banking system was shut down was we were looking for the cause of AIDS which we knew was being caused by transfusions. But we didn't know the source of it.

Lemond had EXTREME loss of blood which normally requires many months without hard physical activity, careful diet and lots of water. Yet the following year he went from no-competitive in the early Spanish races to winning the Tour de France.


Not unless you have anemia.


About this time synthetic EPO was developed. He could have been administered this. He might not even known that he was being administered this. But since it most assuredly would have been by doctors prescription and for a real physical problem I would not have considered that "doping" any more than using Morphine on a cyclist with a debilitating injury during recovery to be doping either.

So is there a possibility that Lemond used EPO? Yes, but was it doping? No, he would NOT have been using it to get an advantage but to return to normal.


EPO is not indicated for sudden blood loss. A person with a shotgun wound gets O2/blood/plasma/lactated Ring's, etc. and not EPO. LeMond was shot in '87. EPO received FDA approval in the US in 1989. The likelihood that LeMond received EPO for his shotgun wound is exactly zero.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #5  
Old November 23rd 20, 06:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 12,639
Default Not Lance

On 11/23/2020 11:15 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:03:59 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI


Serious question, do you think he doped? It seems that everyone in cycling did or does but maybe I believe Greg. Andrew I also have question for you? Do you ride a lot?
Deacon Mark


Not nearly as much as I did. Short, frequent but I work, as
Nate Nagel wrote, 'half days' = 12 hours.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #6  
Old November 23rd 20, 07:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 507
Default Not Lance

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:54:02 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:33:19 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:03:59 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Serious question, do you think he doped? It seems that everyone in cycling did or does but maybe I believe Greg. Andrew I also have question for you? Do you ride a lot?

At the time that Greg was shot in that hunting accident the blood banking system was shut down was we were looking for the cause of AIDS which we knew was being caused by transfusions. But we didn't know the source of it.

Lemond had EXTREME loss of blood which normally requires many months without hard physical activity, careful diet and lots of water. Yet the following year he went from no-competitive in the early Spanish races to winning the Tour de France.

Not unless you have anemia.

About this time synthetic EPO was developed. He could have been administered this. He might not even known that he was being administered this. But since it most assuredly would have been by doctors prescription and for a real physical problem I would not have considered that "doping" any more than using Morphine on a cyclist with a debilitating injury during recovery to be doping either.

So is there a possibility that Lemond used EPO? Yes, but was it doping? No, he would NOT have been using it to get an advantage but to return to normal.

EPO is not indicated for sudden blood loss. A person with a shotgun wound gets O2/blood/plasma/lactated Ring's, etc. and not EPO. LeMond was shot in '87. EPO received FDA approval in the US in 1989. The likelihood that LeMond received EPO for his shotgun wound is exactly zero.


Has one intelligent word come from you in the time since you told us that the Portland anarchist takeover was a "peaceful protest"? The entire purpose of EPO is to accelerate the body's production of red corpuscles. The normal prescription for "sudden blood loss" is transfusion you mindless moron. Since the blood banks were shut down and obviously he had no close relatives with the same blood type willing to transfuse him, EPO would have been THE ONLY alternative.

Each day you are losing more and more of your sanity. Is this because Trump went in there and stopped the rioting? Was that such an affront to your mentality that you are losing it altogether?
  #7  
Old November 23rd 20, 07:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,352
Default Not Lance

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 10:23:11 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:54:02 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:33:19 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:03:59 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Serious question, do you think he doped? It seems that everyone in cycling did or does but maybe I believe Greg. Andrew I also have question for you? Do you ride a lot?
At the time that Greg was shot in that hunting accident the blood banking system was shut down was we were looking for the cause of AIDS which we knew was being caused by transfusions. But we didn't know the source of it.

Lemond had EXTREME loss of blood which normally requires many months without hard physical activity, careful diet and lots of water. Yet the following year he went from no-competitive in the early Spanish races to winning the Tour de France.

Not unless you have anemia.

About this time synthetic EPO was developed. He could have been administered this. He might not even known that he was being administered this. But since it most assuredly would have been by doctors prescription and for a real physical problem I would not have considered that "doping" any more than using Morphine on a cyclist with a debilitating injury during recovery to be doping either.

So is there a possibility that Lemond used EPO? Yes, but was it doping? No, he would NOT have been using it to get an advantage but to return to normal.

EPO is not indicated for sudden blood loss. A person with a shotgun wound gets O2/blood/plasma/lactated Ring's, etc. and not EPO. LeMond was shot in '87. EPO received FDA approval in the US in 1989. The likelihood that LeMond received EPO for his shotgun wound is exactly zero.

Has one intelligent word come from you in the time since you told us that the Portland anarchist takeover was a "peaceful protest"? The entire purpose of EPO is to accelerate the body's production of red corpuscles. The normal prescription for "sudden blood loss" is transfusion you mindless moron. Since the blood banks were shut down and obviously he had no close relatives with the same blood type willing to transfuse him, EPO would have been THE ONLY alternative.

Each day you are losing more and more of your sanity. Is this because Trump went in there and stopped the rioting? Was that such an affront to your mentality that you are losing it altogether?


I am losing it -- it should have said lactated Ringer's. Otherwise, continue frothing at the mouth and spewing nonsense. In these difficult times, consistency is important.

By the way, I have actually treated shot-gun wounds -- and all sorts of gun shot wounds. Standard ER treatment back in the day was to control bleeding and replace blood volume with blood or blood products or blood substitutes (Ringer's). O2 and off to surgery. Even if LeMond had been in the ER or surgery for two years waiting for FDA approval of EPO, it was not indicated for or approved for acute blood loss in 1989. Whatever the voices in your head may be telling you, they're wrong.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #8  
Old November 23rd 20, 08:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 507
Default Not Lance

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 10:45:24 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 10:23:11 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:54:02 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:33:19 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:03:59 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Serious question, do you think he doped? It seems that everyone in cycling did or does but maybe I believe Greg. Andrew I also have question for you? Do you ride a lot?
At the time that Greg was shot in that hunting accident the blood banking system was shut down was we were looking for the cause of AIDS which we knew was being caused by transfusions. But we didn't know the source of it.

Lemond had EXTREME loss of blood which normally requires many months without hard physical activity, careful diet and lots of water. Yet the following year he went from no-competitive in the early Spanish races to winning the Tour de France.
Not unless you have anemia.

About this time synthetic EPO was developed. He could have been administered this. He might not even known that he was being administered this.. But since it most assuredly would have been by doctors prescription and for a real physical problem I would not have considered that "doping" any more than using Morphine on a cyclist with a debilitating injury during recovery to be doping either.

So is there a possibility that Lemond used EPO? Yes, but was it doping? No, he would NOT have been using it to get an advantage but to return to normal.
EPO is not indicated for sudden blood loss. A person with a shotgun wound gets O2/blood/plasma/lactated Ring's, etc. and not EPO. LeMond was shot in '87. EPO received FDA approval in the US in 1989. The likelihood that LeMond received EPO for his shotgun wound is exactly zero.

Has one intelligent word come from you in the time since you told us that the Portland anarchist takeover was a "peaceful protest"? The entire purpose of EPO is to accelerate the body's production of red corpuscles. The normal prescription for "sudden blood loss" is transfusion you mindless moron. Since the blood banks were shut down and obviously he had no close relatives with the same blood type willing to transfuse him, EPO would have been THE ONLY alternative.

Each day you are losing more and more of your sanity. Is this because Trump went in there and stopped the rioting? Was that such an affront to your mentality that you are losing it altogether?

I am losing it -- it should have said lactated Ringer's. Otherwise, continue frothing at the mouth and spewing nonsense. In these difficult times, consistency is important.

By the way, I have actually treated shot-gun wounds -- and all sorts of gun shot wounds. Standard ER treatment back in the day was to control bleeding and replace blood volume with blood or blood products or blood substitutes (Ringer's). O2 and off to surgery. Even if LeMond had been in the ER or surgery for two years waiting for FDA approval of EPO, it was not indicated for or approved for acute blood loss in 1989. Whatever the voices in your head may be telling you, they're wrong.

Then I'll tell you what, I'll shoot you and you use Ringers. That is so effective.
  #9  
Old November 23rd 20, 10:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark Cleary[_3_]
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Posts: 107
Default Not Lance

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 1:25:06 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 10:45:24 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 10:23:11 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:54:02 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:33:19 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:15:55 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:03:59 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...l#.X7vPIk-NWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Serious question, do you think he doped? It seems that everyone in cycling did or does but maybe I believe Greg. Andrew I also have question for you? Do you ride a lot?
At the time that Greg was shot in that hunting accident the blood banking system was shut down was we were looking for the cause of AIDS which we knew was being caused by transfusions. But we didn't know the source of it.

Lemond had EXTREME loss of blood which normally requires many months without hard physical activity, careful diet and lots of water. Yet the following year he went from no-competitive in the early Spanish races to winning the Tour de France.
Not unless you have anemia.

About this time synthetic EPO was developed. He could have been administered this. He might not even known that he was being administered this. But since it most assuredly would have been by doctors prescription and for a real physical problem I would not have considered that "doping" any more than using Morphine on a cyclist with a debilitating injury during recovery to be doping either.

So is there a possibility that Lemond used EPO? Yes, but was it doping? No, he would NOT have been using it to get an advantage but to return to normal.
EPO is not indicated for sudden blood loss. A person with a shotgun wound gets O2/blood/plasma/lactated Ring's, etc. and not EPO. LeMond was shot in '87. EPO received FDA approval in the US in 1989. The likelihood that LeMond received EPO for his shotgun wound is exactly zero.
Has one intelligent word come from you in the time since you told us that the Portland anarchist takeover was a "peaceful protest"? The entire purpose of EPO is to accelerate the body's production of red corpuscles. The normal prescription for "sudden blood loss" is transfusion you mindless moron. Since the blood banks were shut down and obviously he had no close relatives with the same blood type willing to transfuse him, EPO would have been THE ONLY alternative.

Each day you are losing more and more of your sanity. Is this because Trump went in there and stopped the rioting? Was that such an affront to your mentality that you are losing it altogether?

I am losing it -- it should have said lactated Ringer's. Otherwise, continue frothing at the mouth and spewing nonsense. In these difficult times, consistency is important.

By the way, I have actually treated shot-gun wounds -- and all sorts of gun shot wounds. Standard ER treatment back in the day was to control bleeding and replace blood volume with blood or blood products or blood substitutes (Ringer's). O2 and off to surgery. Even if LeMond had been in the ER or surgery for two years waiting for FDA approval of EPO, it was not indicated for or approved for acute blood loss in 1989. Whatever the voices in your head may be telling you, they're wrong.

Then I'll tell you what, I'll shoot you and you use Ringers. That is so effective.



In running circles at that time the big guns for distance were Shorter and Rodgers. While doping for marathons was not the same as track distances I never for a minute think Shorter or Bill Rodgers doped. Now sprinters I am unsure but I think Carl Lewis was clean all the way. To me it is obvious the Flo Jo was doping no one has touched her sprint marks. In contrast it just seems that cycling doping was a way of training and life. In my own training doing a lot of running and cycling but never at anything other than hobbyist level, I can see the benefit for both but completely opposite reason. Cycling long distances has a complete different impact on my body than running. Nothing in cycling can quite compare to a hard all out 10 mile race. Even a fast century will not take the body down like that. However a hard century at all out pace would be taxing that lasted longer in some ways than the 10 mile race running.

I did not follow cycling when Lemond was in his glory years so I only know what I read in history. In the end except for some almost certain situations we will never know the real answer. So that said in my book, Hank Aaron is the home run king for sure no questions. Barry Bonds could have been the home run king if he had not doped but we don't really know for sure. I see Bonds now is a cyclist too that is interesting, only that as we age those sports of youth are not the same. Good diet and a prefect schedule of sleep and training only goes so far..............then you need some help. I have never doped and my marathon PR is 3:06. I think possible under perfect conditions and a group not necessarily even drafting I might be able to do a 5 hour century? My guess is that probably many 60 year old cyclists can do that but I just never have yet. My best with no rest and completely solo 5:15 a few years ago.

What dope will get me there?

Deacon Mark
  #10  
Old November 24th 20, 01:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,227
Default Not Lance

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 9:38:15 PM UTC, wrote:
I have never doped and my marathon PR is 3:06. I think possible under perfect conditions and a group not necessarily even drafting I might be able to do a 5 hour century? My guess is that probably many 60 year old cyclists can do that but I just never have yet. My best with no rest and completely solo 5:15 a few years ago.

What dope will get me there?

Deacon Mark

..
I think you have this the wrong way round, Mark. First you train and bring your body AND your skills to perfection, same as the other competitors are doing, THEN you dope for the extra edge. This is why total body blood doping -- the exchange of all the blood in the body for fresh blood -- which allows the body to burn more oxygen for greater output is so effective. But even such an extreme measure will do nothing against professionals for an overweight old guy who, let us say, gave up cycling twenty years ago and anyway wasn't a top class athlete even twenty years before that. All it will do for the latter guy is help him beat fat old guys who had developed similar amateur skills way back in their day.

Sorry to disappoint you.

Andre Jute
Unfortunately the magic bullet is a myth.
 




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