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Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time to workout the kinks



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 8th 17, 12:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

Curious comparison old world bottomland to Demoine Iowa.

We have no time for cycling around.
Ads
  #12  
Old February 8th 17, 01:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andrew Chaplin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 206
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time to work out the kinks

Duane wrote in
news
On 07/02/2017 10:27 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

By close of business I'll have a stay of that pizza and by tomorrow
I'll persuade a judge that the proper meme is "a chicken in every pot"
(sorry Duane, couldn't help it).


While I'm clearly in the pizza camp, a chicken in every pot is ok with
me if it's a pot of gumbo. I doubt that Hoover was thinking in terms
of gumbo but what the hell...

I just came back from a walk with my wife. The return was rather
pleasant in 8C because the wind was behind us. But walking into that
18mph wind made decide I did the right thing not to cycle in it.


Snowing here and turning into freezing rain this afternoon. There are
still cyclists out and I saw one this morning avoid an SUV sliding into
him. Gave him a thumbs up. Me, I'm too much of a wimp to deal with
cycling in snow in the morning and ice in the afternoon.

Andre Jute
First cherry blossoms in the orchard: the trees think it is spring



I think this is the first time here that I've seen a political thread
hijacked for cycling matters.


Ice is pelting my window as I type. It's as icy as **** out there and not
fit cycling for a man in his seventh decade.

April cannot come too soon.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
  #13  
Old February 8th 17, 03:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

On 2/8/2017 6:19 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Duane wrote in
news
On 07/02/2017 10:27 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

By close of business I'll have a stay of that pizza and by tomorrow
I'll persuade a judge that the proper meme is "a chicken in every pot"
(sorry Duane, couldn't help it).


While I'm clearly in the pizza camp, a chicken in every pot is ok with
me if it's a pot of gumbo. I doubt that Hoover was thinking in terms
of gumbo but what the hell...

I just came back from a walk with my wife. The return was rather
pleasant in 8C because the wind was behind us. But walking into that
18mph wind made decide I did the right thing not to cycle in it.


Snowing here and turning into freezing rain this afternoon. There are
still cyclists out and I saw one this morning avoid an SUV sliding into
him. Gave him a thumbs up. Me, I'm too much of a wimp to deal with
cycling in snow in the morning and ice in the afternoon.

Andre Jute
First cherry blossoms in the orchard: the trees think it is spring



I think this is the first time here that I've seen a political thread
hijacked for cycling matters.


Ice is pelting my window as I type. It's as icy as **** out there and not
fit cycling for a man in his seventh decade.

April cannot come too soon.


Yesterday hovered around freezing with alternate rain and
sleet than went to 14F so there are big glassy ice sheets
all over today. Yeccchh,

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #14  
Old February 8th 17, 07:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 4:31:02 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 06:41:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
On 07/02/2017 8:16 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
Churchill, who was half an American, and very much at home in the States, said that democracy was the worst of all governing systems, except for all the others. Most well-travelled, thoughtful people agree.

Churchill also said that most people (probably meaning of middle/professional classes but not in politics) admire democracy until they speak to one of the voters who have the numbers to change the government. (I've given a very long paraphrase because you have to understand the context and the nuances.)

About Slow Johnny, Ridesalot Duane's remarks about the Canadian and British systems in the rec.bicycles.tech thread "Bill would ban bicyclists from most 2-lane roads in Montana", you might want to consider for a moment that the British and their colonials had about twice as long to work the kinks out of their system as Americans have, and they haven't avoided coming to blows either (though admittedly their shooting civil wars are half a millennium in the past), and they also have their extreme partisans (for instance the destructive British Labour Left, supposedly wiped out by Tony Blair, who simply packaged Mrs Thatcher's policies in left-wing language to move the party rightward and right into the middle classes, but now resurgent under Jeremy Corbyn).

There's another system that works, though often through deadlock, but it requires a great deal of civilized patience from everyone involved. It is proportional representation. The leading contemporary small-scale system (for ease of studying) is that in Israel, where one can daily see the advantages and disadvantages of proportional representation. Unfortunately, in the larger systems, of which the European Union government is the nastiest example, and several European countries are failed examples, proportional representation eventually leads to passionless, technocratic governments without any philosophy to distinguish the centre-left parties contesting elections. Passion, such as stirred up in parts of their electorates by Muslim immigration, terrorism and rapes, comes as a shock to these technocrats (it is difficult to believe how much they assume a sort of Chicom groupthink is the norm until you see their shock at a breach of the norm), much like Trump came as a shock to

the
complacent, limp Left in the US.

Andre Jute
At home wherever I land



The American system can only work when Congress represents their
constituents. When a Democrat or Republican congressman votes along
party lines in opposition to the interest of those that elected them
then they need to be voted out. And they need to know that this will
happen.

When Congress can vote strictly along party lines without regard to why
they were elected in the first place, it's not much different than the
parliamentary model with a majority government. The president is
elected separately but without congressional support he is not going to
get much done, recent floods of executive orders notwithstanding.

What seems different to me is that these guys on both sides keep getting
reelected in spite of what they do. I assume this is because people are
too lazy to research what actually occurs in their government and rely
on sound bites from their favorite news channel or what they can see on
Facebook etc.

The really strange thing now is that Trump got in because a lot of
people are tired of the status quo yet Congress is still Republican.

I'm done with political discussions here. If anyone has something to
say about bikes or cycling...


Well, I can say that I want to get back on my bike. I've had this nasty cold, preceded by the week-long snow, preceded by my fall-related hand fracture and surgery. I'm in the worst shape I've ever been. Waaaah.

The weather this year has totally sucked. Snow was predicted for last Friday, but it ended up as 2-3" of rain in a 24hr period. If that had fallen as snow, we'd be up to our eyeballs. My son is getting better weather in Salt Lake City.

Some guy got killed yesterday, hooked by a truck while riding in a bike lane. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ts_man_on.html

This points out the evil dark-side of bike lanes and drivers who don't understand that bike lanes are "lanes," viz., that another vehicle is or could be operating to the right. Another tip is beware of box trucks and cement trucks. They have a real penchant for squashing cyclists in Portland.

I've also concluded that I entirely agree with Joerg. America should have a vast network of separate bike facilities that go everywhere. Let's start today! I am issuing an executive order to all of my agency heads instructing them to do everything in their power to build separate bike facilities everywhere. I am also instructing them to do everything in their power to make sure every man, woman and child in the US gets his or her own pony -- and a pizza.

-- Jay Beattie.


Some time ago I calculated what the U.S. would have to do in order to
provide the same services to bicyclists as The Netherlands. On a mile
to mile basis they will have to build a million miles of bikeways.

I can't estimate costs for this other than to comment that some 670
miles of the U.S. - Mexican border has been fenced at a cost of 3.9
million dollars per mile. Based on that, admittedly very low end
guess, a million miles of bikeways might cost 5,820,895 million
dollars.

It might be noted that total income tax paid in 2015 was some
1,231,911 million dollars and the average interest on all government
bonds is 1.97%.
--
Cheers,

John B.


John - your value of income taxes sound like something from WW I. We paid some $3.25 BILLION in 2015.
  #15  
Old February 8th 17, 07:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

On 2/8/2017 12:33 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 4:31:02 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 06:41:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
On 07/02/2017 8:16 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
Churchill, who was half an American, and very much at home in the States, said that democracy was the worst of all governing systems, except for all the others. Most well-travelled, thoughtful people agree.

Churchill also said that most people (probably meaning of middle/professional classes but not in politics) admire democracy until they speak to one of the voters who have the numbers to change the government. (I've given a very long paraphrase because you have to understand the context and the nuances.)

About Slow Johnny, Ridesalot Duane's remarks about the Canadian and British systems in the rec.bicycles.tech thread "Bill would ban bicyclists from most 2-lane roads in Montana", you might want to consider for a moment that the British and their colonials had about twice as long to work the kinks out of their system as Americans have, and they haven't avoided coming to blows either (though admittedly their shooting civil wars are half a millennium in the past), and they also have their extreme partisans (for instance the destructive British Labour Left, supposedly wiped out by Tony Blair, who simply packaged Mrs Thatcher's policies in left-wing language to move the party rightward and right into the middle classes, but now resurgent under Jeremy Corbyn).

There's another system that works, though often through deadlock, but it requires a great deal of civilized patience from everyone involved. It is proportional representation. The leading contemporary small-scale system (for ease of studying) is that in Israel, where one can daily see the advantages and disadvantages of proportional representation. Unfortunately, in the larger systems, of which the European Union government is the nastiest example, and several European countries are failed examples, proportional representation eventually leads to passionless, technocratic governments without any philosophy to distinguish the centre-left parties contesting elections. Passion, such as stirred up in parts of their electorates by Muslim immigration, terrorism and rapes, comes as a shock to these technocrats (it is difficult to believe how much they assume a sort of Chicom groupthink is the norm until you see their shock at a breach of the norm), much like Trump came as a shock to

the
complacent, limp Left in the US.

Andre Jute
At home wherever I land



The American system can only work when Congress represents their
constituents. When a Democrat or Republican congressman votes along
party lines in opposition to the interest of those that elected them
then they need to be voted out. And they need to know that this will
happen.

When Congress can vote strictly along party lines without regard to why
they were elected in the first place, it's not much different than the
parliamentary model with a majority government. The president is
elected separately but without congressional support he is not going to
get much done, recent floods of executive orders notwithstanding.

What seems different to me is that these guys on both sides keep getting
reelected in spite of what they do. I assume this is because people are
too lazy to research what actually occurs in their government and rely
on sound bites from their favorite news channel or what they can see on
Facebook etc.

The really strange thing now is that Trump got in because a lot of
people are tired of the status quo yet Congress is still Republican.

I'm done with political discussions here. If anyone has something to
say about bikes or cycling...

Well, I can say that I want to get back on my bike. I've had this nasty cold, preceded by the week-long snow, preceded by my fall-related hand fracture and surgery. I'm in the worst shape I've ever been. Waaaah.

The weather this year has totally sucked. Snow was predicted for last Friday, but it ended up as 2-3" of rain in a 24hr period. If that had fallen as snow, we'd be up to our eyeballs. My son is getting better weather in Salt Lake City.

Some guy got killed yesterday, hooked by a truck while riding in a bike lane.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ts_man_on.html

This points out the evil dark-side of bike lanes and drivers who don't understand that bike lanes are "lanes," viz., that another vehicle is or could be operating to the right. Another tip is beware of box trucks and cement trucks. They have a real penchant for squashing cyclists in Portland.

I've also concluded that I entirely agree with Joerg. America should have a vast network of separate bike facilities that go everywhere. Let's start today! I am issuing an executive order to all of my agency heads instructing them to do everything in their power to build separate bike facilities everywhere. I am also instructing them to do everything in their power to make sure every man, woman and child in the US gets his or her own pony -- and a pizza.

-- Jay Beattie.


Some time ago I calculated what the U.S. would have to do in order to
provide the same services to bicyclists as The Netherlands. On a mile
to mile basis they will have to build a million miles of bikeways.

I can't estimate costs for this other than to comment that some 670
miles of the U.S. - Mexican border has been fenced at a cost of 3.9
million dollars per mile. Based on that, admittedly very low end
guess, a million miles of bikeways might cost 5,820,895 million
dollars.

It might be noted that total income tax paid in 2015 was some
1,231,911 million dollars and the average interest on all government
bonds is 1.97%.
--
Cheers,

John B.


John - your value of income taxes sound like something from WW I. We paid some $3.25 BILLION in 2015.


Not really.

Personal income tax revenue runs about $1,480,000,000,000.00
($1.48 trillion)
That somewhat over $1,231,911,000,000.00
($1.23 trillion)
But $3,250,000,000.00 is a ridiculous number, off by several
magnitudes. We first hit the mid-$3 billions in 1918 (after
Wilson's war taxes, a big increase from 1917)

Total US Federal revenue runs something around $3.18
trillion, most of which is wasted, as always.

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/b...-101/revenues/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #16  
Old February 8th 17, 08:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 10:48:42 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/8/2017 12:33 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 4:31:02 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 06:41:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
On 07/02/2017 8:16 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
Churchill, who was half an American, and very much at home in the States, said that democracy was the worst of all governing systems, except for all the others. Most well-travelled, thoughtful people agree.

Churchill also said that most people (probably meaning of middle/professional classes but not in politics) admire democracy until they speak to one of the voters who have the numbers to change the government. (I've given a very long paraphrase because you have to understand the context and the nuances.)

About Slow Johnny, Ridesalot Duane's remarks about the Canadian and British systems in the rec.bicycles.tech thread "Bill would ban bicyclists from most 2-lane roads in Montana", you might want to consider for a moment that the British and their colonials had about twice as long to work the kinks out of their system as Americans have, and they haven't avoided coming to blows either (though admittedly their shooting civil wars are half a millennium in the past), and they also have their extreme partisans (for instance the destructive British Labour Left, supposedly wiped out by Tony Blair, who simply packaged Mrs Thatcher's policies in left-wing language to move the party rightward and right into the middle classes, but now resurgent under Jeremy Corbyn).

There's another system that works, though often through deadlock, but it requires a great deal of civilized patience from everyone involved. It is proportional representation. The leading contemporary small-scale system (for ease of studying) is that in Israel, where one can daily see the advantages and disadvantages of proportional representation. Unfortunately, in the larger systems, of which the European Union government is the nastiest example, and several European countries are failed examples, proportional representation eventually leads to passionless, technocratic governments without any philosophy to distinguish the centre-left parties contesting elections. Passion, such as stirred up in parts of their electorates by Muslim immigration, terrorism and rapes, comes as a shock to these technocrats (it is difficult to believe how much they assume a sort of Chicom groupthink is the norm until you see their shock at a breach of the norm), much like Trump came as a shock to
the
complacent, limp Left in the US.

Andre Jute
At home wherever I land



The American system can only work when Congress represents their
constituents. When a Democrat or Republican congressman votes along
party lines in opposition to the interest of those that elected them
then they need to be voted out. And they need to know that this will
happen.

When Congress can vote strictly along party lines without regard to why
they were elected in the first place, it's not much different than the
parliamentary model with a majority government. The president is
elected separately but without congressional support he is not going to
get much done, recent floods of executive orders notwithstanding.

What seems different to me is that these guys on both sides keep getting
reelected in spite of what they do. I assume this is because people are
too lazy to research what actually occurs in their government and rely
on sound bites from their favorite news channel or what they can see on
Facebook etc.

The really strange thing now is that Trump got in because a lot of
people are tired of the status quo yet Congress is still Republican.

I'm done with political discussions here. If anyone has something to
say about bikes or cycling...

Well, I can say that I want to get back on my bike. I've had this nasty cold, preceded by the week-long snow, preceded by my fall-related hand fracture and surgery. I'm in the worst shape I've ever been. Waaaah.

The weather this year has totally sucked. Snow was predicted for last Friday, but it ended up as 2-3" of rain in a 24hr period. If that had fallen as snow, we'd be up to our eyeballs. My son is getting better weather in Salt Lake City.

Some guy got killed yesterday, hooked by a truck while riding in a bike lane.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ts_man_on.html

This points out the evil dark-side of bike lanes and drivers who don't understand that bike lanes are "lanes," viz., that another vehicle is or could be operating to the right. Another tip is beware of box trucks and cement trucks. They have a real penchant for squashing cyclists in Portland..

I've also concluded that I entirely agree with Joerg. America should have a vast network of separate bike facilities that go everywhere. Let's start today! I am issuing an executive order to all of my agency heads instructing them to do everything in their power to build separate bike facilities everywhere. I am also instructing them to do everything in their power to make sure every man, woman and child in the US gets his or her own pony -- and a pizza.

-- Jay Beattie.

Some time ago I calculated what the U.S. would have to do in order to
provide the same services to bicyclists as The Netherlands. On a mile
to mile basis they will have to build a million miles of bikeways.

I can't estimate costs for this other than to comment that some 670
miles of the U.S. - Mexican border has been fenced at a cost of 3.9
million dollars per mile. Based on that, admittedly very low end
guess, a million miles of bikeways might cost 5,820,895 million
dollars.

It might be noted that total income tax paid in 2015 was some
1,231,911 million dollars and the average interest on all government
bonds is 1.97%.
--
Cheers,

John B.


John - your value of income taxes sound like something from WW I. We paid some $3.25 BILLION in 2015.


Not really.

Personal income tax revenue runs about $1,480,000,000,000.00
($1.48 trillion)
That somewhat over $1,231,911,000,000.00
($1.23 trillion)
But $3,250,000,000.00 is a ridiculous number, off by several
magnitudes. We first hit the mid-$3 billions in 1918 (after
Wilson's war taxes, a big increase from 1917)

Total US Federal revenue runs something around $3.18
trillion, most of which is wasted, as always.

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/b...-101/revenues/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Everywhere you look you get different numbers:

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-la...a-2015-update/ = $1,23 Trllion
  #17  
Old February 8th 17, 08:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

On 2/8/2017 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 10:48:42 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/8/2017 12:33 PM,
wrote:
On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 4:31:02 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 06:41:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
On 07/02/2017 8:16 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
Churchill, who was half an American, and very much at home in the States, said that democracy was the worst of all governing systems, except for all the others. Most well-travelled, thoughtful people agree.

Churchill also said that most people (probably meaning of middle/professional classes but not in politics) admire democracy until they speak to one of the voters who have the numbers to change the government. (I've given a very long paraphrase because you have to understand the context and the nuances.)

About Slow Johnny, Ridesalot Duane's remarks about the Canadian and British systems in the rec.bicycles.tech thread "Bill would ban bicyclists from most 2-lane roads in Montana", you might want to consider for a moment that the British and their colonials had about twice as long to work the kinks out of their system as Americans have, and they haven't avoided coming to blows either (though admittedly their shooting civil wars are half a millennium in the past), and they also have their extreme partisans (for instance the destructive British Labour Left, supposedly wiped out by Tony Blair, who simply packaged Mrs Thatcher's policies in left-wing language to move the party rightward and right into the middle classes, but now resurgent under Jeremy Corbyn).

There's another system that works, though often through deadlock, but it requires a great deal of civilized patience from everyone involved. It is proportional representation. The leading contemporary small-scale system (for ease of studying) is that in Israel, where one can daily see the advantages and disadvantages of proportional representation. Unfortunately, in the larger systems, of which the European Union government is the nastiest example, and several European countries are failed examples, proportional representation eventually leads to passionless, technocratic governments without any philosophy to distinguish the centre-left parties contesting elections. Passion, such as stirred up in parts of their electorates by Muslim immigration, terrorism and rapes, comes as a shock to these technocrats (it is difficult to believe how much they assume a sort of Chicom groupthink is the norm until you see their shock at a breach of the norm), much like Trump came as a shock t

o
the
complacent, limp Left in the US.

Andre Jute
At home wherever I land



The American system can only work when Congress represents their
constituents. When a Democrat or Republican congressman votes along
party lines in opposition to the interest of those that elected them
then they need to be voted out. And they need to know that this will
happen.

When Congress can vote strictly along party lines without regard to why
they were elected in the first place, it's not much different than the
parliamentary model with a majority government. The president is
elected separately but without congressional support he is not going to
get much done, recent floods of executive orders notwithstanding.

What seems different to me is that these guys on both sides keep getting
reelected in spite of what they do. I assume this is because people are
too lazy to research what actually occurs in their government and rely
on sound bites from their favorite news channel or what they can see on
Facebook etc.

The really strange thing now is that Trump got in because a lot of
people are tired of the status quo yet Congress is still Republican.

I'm done with political discussions here. If anyone has something to
say about bikes or cycling...

Well, I can say that I want to get back on my bike. I've had this nasty cold, preceded by the week-long snow, preceded by my fall-related hand fracture and surgery. I'm in the worst shape I've ever been. Waaaah.

The weather this year has totally sucked. Snow was predicted for last Friday, but it ended up as 2-3" of rain in a 24hr period. If that had fallen as snow, we'd be up to our eyeballs. My son is getting better weather in Salt Lake City.

Some guy got killed yesterday, hooked by a truck while riding in a bike lane.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ts_man_on.html

This points out the evil dark-side of bike lanes and drivers who don't understand that bike lanes are "lanes," viz., that another vehicle is or could be operating to the right. Another tip is beware of box trucks and cement trucks. They have a real penchant for squashing cyclists in Portland.

I've also concluded that I entirely agree with Joerg. America should have a vast network of separate bike facilities that go everywhere. Let's start today! I am issuing an executive order to all of my agency heads instructing them to do everything in their power to build separate bike facilities everywhere. I am also instructing them to do everything in their power to make sure every man, woman and child in the US gets his or her own pony -- and a pizza.

-- Jay Beattie.

Some time ago I calculated what the U.S. would have to do in order to
provide the same services to bicyclists as The Netherlands. On a mile
to mile basis they will have to build a million miles of bikeways.

I can't estimate costs for this other than to comment that some 670
miles of the U.S. - Mexican border has been fenced at a cost of 3.9
million dollars per mile. Based on that, admittedly very low end
guess, a million miles of bikeways might cost 5,820,895 million
dollars.

It might be noted that total income tax paid in 2015 was some
1,231,911 million dollars and the average interest on all government
bonds is 1.97%.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John - your value of income taxes sound like something from WW I. We paid some $3.25 BILLION in 2015.


Not really.

Personal income tax revenue runs about $1,480,000,000,000.00
($1.48 trillion)
That somewhat over $1,231,911,000,000.00
($1.23 trillion)
But $3,250,000,000.00 is a ridiculous number, off by several
magnitudes. We first hit the mid-$3 billions in 1918 (after
Wilson's war taxes, a big increase from 1917)

Total US Federal revenue runs something around $3.18
trillion, most of which is wasted, as always.

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/b...-101/revenues/


Everywhere you look you get different numbers:

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-la...a-2015-update/ = $1,23 Trllion


As with most accounting, I suppose a lot of this is
interpretive. Maybe one's gross and the other's net after
refunds/fees fines? I don't know.

At any rate we now agree it's $1-point-something trillion.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #18  
Old February 8th 17, 11:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
W. Wesley Groleau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 372
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

On 2/7/17 2:39 PM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
incoherent babble


Ironic to hear that after giving up trying to decrypt some of your posts.

--
Wes Groleau
  #19  
Old February 8th 17, 11:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
W. Wesley Groleau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 372
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

On 2/7/17 3:02 PM, Duane wrote:
The American system can only work when Congress represents their
constituents. When a Democrat or Republican congressman votes along
party lines in opposition to the interest of those that elected them
then they need to be voted out. And they need to know that this will
happen.


But they know it won't happen. And we holler about term limits while
naively thinking hollering will get Congress to vote against themselves.

--
Wes Groleau
  #20  
Old February 8th 17, 11:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
W. Wesley Groleau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 372
Default Your flavor of Western democracy may matter less than time towork out the kinks

On 2/8/17 1:30 AM, John B. wrote:
Some time ago I calculated what the U.S. would have to do in order to
provide the same services to bicyclists as The Netherlands. On a mile
to mile basis they will have to build a million miles of bikeways.


I've heard the argument that USA is too big to not own a car.

B.S. What some people pay for car, gas, maintenance, and insurance
would buy a heck of a lot of bus tickets, taxi rides, or bicycles in the
same time period.

Europeans (and some New Yorkers) have figured that out.
They've also figured out that it's possible to walk two kilometers to a
grocery store or restaurant. At any age. And those whose age has
robbed them of walking are out and about in wheelchairs.

--
Wes Groleau
 




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