ARBR has gone downhill

Hello Bikers,
I have practically stopped using arbr because of off topic stuff and
personal attacks and nit picking. OT has almost destroyed arbr.
The attacks on Bryan Ball re his sign off message are another example of
the venom and nit picking of a few on this group.
(Bryan contributes immensely to recumbents and cycling with his
Bentrideronline.)
Ed Dolan started out in good humor to counter liberal biases on arbr,
but he has over done it.
But Ed Dolan is not the only, or even main, OT poster. Tom Sherman, for
one, posts many liberal OT posts.
I'm just plain sick of OT posts. Yes, one filters posts, but is it
worthwhile, especially when there are good alternatives as Bentrideronline
and Yahoo Groups.
There are many here who focus on biking and contribute worthwhile ideas,
humor, and friendship, but these folks are getting drowned in a sea of
politics and personal attacks and nit picking that has nothing to do with
biking.
Those who want to talk politics, go to a politics newsgroup.
Those that want to fight, email duel.
And those that need to show how clever they are, go to a Mensa group.
Try to recall those that you really like and who have left arbr over the
years or who hardly post any more and ask "Why?".
Sincerely,
Al Kubeluis

Ed Dolan started out in good humor to counter liberal biases on arbr,
but he has over done it.

Which from the tenor of your missive was OK until the "liberal bias"
just drove him to the brink of sanity!

Puh-leeze.

Tom Sherman, for one, posts many liberal OT posts.

Horrors! We must find out where Tom lives! Where'd I put my torch and
pitchfork from the good ole brownshirt days?!?!?!



Maybe you should quit trying to be such an uptight control freak and do
what everyone else does--ignore or killfile the obvious flamage and get
on with your life.

Like it or not, unmoderated newsgroups are conversation. And when people
start conversing, the subject matter is going to meander. There's going
to be stuff spilling over the sides and making a mess. Step over the
yucky parts and keep going.

Whining about it sure isn't going to change anything. People have been
carping about OT posts in every newsgroup (except maybe alt.tasteless)
since time began (Jan 1, 1970).

And since this is a recumbent newsgroup, your subject line should read:
"ARBR is really going UPHILL"

PT, Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about. Al

"Porquer Torquer" wrote in message
...
Ed Dolan started out in good humor to counter liberal biases on
arbr,
but he has over done it.

Which from the tenor of your missive was OK until the "liberal bias"
just drove him to the brink of sanity!

Puh-leeze.

Tom Sherman, for one, posts many liberal OT posts.

Horrors! We must find out where Tom lives! Where'd I put my torch and
pitchfork from the good ole brownshirt days?!?!?!



Maybe you should quit trying to be such an uptight control freak and do
what everyone else does--ignore or killfile the obvious flamage and get
on with your life.

Like it or not, unmoderated newsgroups are conversation. And when people
start conversing, the subject matter is going to meander. There's going
to be stuff spilling over the sides and making a mess. Step over the
yucky parts and keep going.

Whining about it sure isn't going to change anything. People have been
carping about OT posts in every newsgroup (except maybe alt.tasteless)
since time began (Jan 1, 1970).

And since this is a recumbent newsgroup, your subject line should read:
"ARBR is really going UPHILL"

In article ,
says...
PT, Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about. Al

About a year ago (Date: 2002-12-02 12:19:15 PST), I made an early New
Years Resolution to not participate in OT inflammatory posts.

http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&l...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
&selm=MPG.18557c2e31e13217989701%40News.CIS.DFN .DE

For the most part, I have kept that promise. At the time I made my
resolution, I invited others to join me. IIRC, I got few takers. By
tolerating others irreverent, obscene and bigoted comments, has brought
this NG full circle. Good posters are leaving and what we have left
floating at the top of the cream pitcher are a few turds.

Maybe people like Al and Bryan will drift back, maybe not. Perhaps
others just as valued will come on board and replace these. I hope both
happen. Without quality, this group will atrophy. If you let it be
dominated by a few foul mouthed jerks, ARBR will certainly lose its
mission. Only by speaking out against the foul-mouthed jerks will they
get the message. Feeding their vitriol will only continue the downward
spiral into the sewage pits. It is your choice, you can speak up or you
can leave. If you leave, 'they' win.

I have been here over four years now. I've learned a lot. I've shared a
lot. I've had the chance to put some faces with names. I would like
that to continue. There are a lot of you that I haven't had a chance
to ride with yet. I hope to do that with as many of you as I can.

--
Cletus D. Lee
Bacchetta Giro
Lightning Voyager
http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Hi Cletus,

I have been reading and posting here since 1998. Since then, I have met
or talked on the phone with dozens of folks here. I have ridden or raced
with a good number of these people, and it has been a pleasure to do so.
It is true that the NG has been significantly "dumbed down" by OT drivel
and many of the quality posters are gone, but then in the old days I
never used to get 250 spam emails a day like I do now either. It seems
that banality is the rule of the day now, and we should all be prepared
to deal with that or leave.

A sure sign that this group has gone to the dogs is the fact that all
the women have been chased off. Or anyone with any level of sensibility
for that matter. I remember the good old days when there were posts
by the likes of Beth, or Marci, or Melanie, and I am sure I am leaving
out others. I miss folks with a good sense of humor like Scott, or
those that have a passion for cycling and broad experience and the
ability to express themselves beautifully like Kent Peterson.

I also remember saars.lists.recumbent and the really good technical
information to be found there before it died. The point I am making is
that the best recumbent posting is no longer going on in this NG - it is
a wasteland now to be scanned periodically but given low priority
because it is so troll infested. Permanently, it seems. The bent bent
posts are to be found at other sources now, which I will not divulge for
obvious reasons.

Cheers,
Derek

derek wrote in message ...

[...]

A sure sign that this group has gone to the dogs is the fact that all
the women have been chased off. Or anyone with any level of sensibility
for that matter. I remember the good old days when there were posts
by the likes of Beth, or Marci, or Melanie, and I am sure I am leaving
out others. I miss folks with a good sense of humor like Scott, or
those that have a passion for cycling and broad experience and the
ability to express themselves beautifully like Kent Peterson.

Good Grief! Who wants any women on this newsgroup? If they know how to
think like men, then OK , but otherwise forget it! I mean, what good
are they? Like Kipling, I prefer a good smoke!

Also, what often passes for a "good sense of humor" is anything but.
Humor is not universal but is one of the most parochial of things. It
should aways be used with great caution. Usually some else's humor is
some else's getting ****ed off at (see my above comment about women
for instance).

I also remember saars.lists.recumbent and the really good technical
information to be found there before it died. The point I am making is
that the best recumbent posting is no longer going on in this NG - it is
a wasteland now to be scanned periodically but given low priority
because it is so troll infested. Permanently, it seems. The bent bent
posts are to be found at other sources now, which I will not divulge for
obvious reasons.

It is impossible to get any good bent information without an editor
overseeing the entire process. What you are getting is other people's
half-ass opinions for free and that is about what they are worth. This
newsgroup must really have been horrible when you and Cletus were
calling the shots. Now that it has opened up I am glad to see that you
have found another cozy little club elsewhere. And, no, I do not want
to know where you have plopped yourself down. Your new sources for
bent information are probably infested with liberals too and are
exactly the sort of pigsty ARBR was until I came along.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

derek wrote:
...
A sure sign that this group has gone to the dogs is the fact that all
the women have been chased off. Or anyone with any level of sensibility
for that matter. I remember the good old days when there were posts
by the likes of Beth, or Marci, or Melanie, and I am sure I am leaving
out others. I miss folks with a good sense of humor like Scott, or
those that have a passion for cycling and broad experience and the
ability to express themselves beautifully like Kent Peterson....

Beth went to the dogs (a Google search reveals recent posts by her on
rec.pets.dogs.behavior). Marci has posted recently. Melanie disappeared
from a.r.b.r. long before most of the OT flamewars started (and shortly
after purchasing a Longbikes Eliminator and finding the performance to
be somewhat disappointing compared to her Lightning Stealth).

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Cletus,

I was one that openly chose not to join you in your resolution. I
thought that OTs were still at a workable level. You were right. I
was wrong.

Gary McCarty, Greenspeed GTO, Salt Lake City

Cletus D. Lee wrote in message ET...

About a year ago (Date: 2002-12-02 12:19:15 PST), I made an early New
Years Resolution to not participate in OT inflammatory posts.

"Cletus D. Lee" wrote

Without quality, this group will atrophy. If you let it be
dominated by a few foul mouthed jerks, ARBR will certainly lose its
mission. Only by speaking out against the foul-mouthed jerks will they
get the message. Feeding their vitriol will only continue the downward
spiral into the sewage pits. It is your choice, you can speak up or you
can leave. If you leave, 'they' win.

Yes. Yes.

Those bent on shaping the group with their slanderous, vulgar,
offensive, and abusive (mal)content are clearly revealed for
what they *are* and what they want to be *known for* by
their words. That they seek to see their names as dominant
in the ARBR newsgroup listings is telling.

We can choose to abandon the newsgroup to them in disgust.
Or not.
We can choose to let them "push our buttons".
Or not.

It seems unlikely they will be changed, so we must be.

Take to the newsgroup with a modicum of decorum and
good humor and respect. Don't leave. Post. Post. Post.
Raise the signal level.

Jon Meinecke

"Jon Meinecke" wrote in message ws.com...

"Cletus D. Lee" wrote

Without quality, this group will atrophy. If you let it be
dominated by a few foul mouthed jerks, ARBR will certainly lose its
mission. Only by speaking out against the foul-mouthed jerks will they
get the message. Feeding their vitriol will only continue the downward
spiral into the sewage pits. It is your choice, you can speak up or you
can leave. If you leave, 'they' win.

Yes. Yes.

Those bent on shaping the group with their slanderous, vulgar,
offensive, and abusive (mal)content are clearly revealed for
what they *are* and what they want to be *known for* by
their words. That they seek to see their names as dominant
in the ARBR newsgroup listings is telling.

We can choose to abandon the newsgroup to them in disgust.
Or not.
We can choose to let them "push our buttons".
Or not.

It seems unlikely they will be changed, so we must be.

Take to the newsgroup with a modicum of decorum and
good humor and respect. Don't leave. Post. Post. Post.
Raise the signal level.

Jon Meinecke


Jon, did it ever occur to you that maybe the recumbent related topics
are so boring and dull that no one is paying any attention to them
anymore. Instead, these OT posts, which you so much deplore, seem to
be generating a lot of responses. Why is that I wonder? It can't
possibly be just me, can it?

Buy the way, I always respond to a post in the same manner in which it
is sent. If it is polite, then I am polite; if it is not polite, then
I am not polite. Liberals are known far and wide for being nasty and
vicious. Look in on any of the TV talk shows and you will see what I
mean. Only Colmes is good for being a liberal. The others are beyond
the pale.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota