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#21
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Maxo---
This subject was discussed here before. I think if you Google it you'll find a long thread. I seem to remember the consensus was these bikes are basically a Fuji Touring. Should be a good deal. |
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#22
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I've been wanting a new cx/tour type drop bar do-anything bike for a
while, but haven't had the bucks for what I consider the entry level bike in that category--the Novara Randonee. Now this guy is selling "Windsor Tourists" on Ebay for $550usd brand new. The spec is exactly what I want: cromo frame and fork, components are a mix of Tiagra, Deore, and Ritchey. Perfect. I don't mind buying on line--sizing is a non-issue as I measured my current well fitting bike and it jives with the Tourist, and I'm a good wrench myself and if it arrives with maladjusted anything, I'll be able to tweak it. My LBS sucks and I would rather eat glass than buy something big from them. Is this like those "Asian Motobecanes" that are too good to be true? 550 for a 1500 (list) bike is mighty tempting. We just built one for a customer who bought one on-line. It's not even close to a $1500 value; not nearly as nice in build quality or componenets as, for example, a Trek 520 (which sells for $1100). I don't understand why people would trash a bike shop for whatever reasons but not find such deceptive advertising practices to be a giant red flag. If we were selling such a bike on the floor, I'd guess it's retail value to be around $750 or so, once it's fully set up. Of course, at a bike shop, that $750 includes a warranty. My guess is that you'll have a much tougher time with a frame failure (getting it taken care of) on a Windsor than on a name-brand bike. Best thing there is to run things backward and find out who actually imports them, how long the business has been around, what else they do, and whether you can get them to write a warranty that ties into something other than just their on-line persona. As for being like an "Asian Motobecane" well, that's exactly what it is. I don't have the box in front of me, so I don't recall if it was either Taiwan or Chinese in origin. Not that either of those is bad per se, but it bears no resemblance to the Windsor of old. If you want a project to work on, you'll have that, as it comes in a box "assembled" in the same manner as all such bikes. In our shop, that means about 2 hours of assembly and check-out to make sure everything's the way it ought to be. It's not something to be done by someone who's never trued wheels or set up brakes. If you've done overhauls on your own bikes before, no biggie. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com |
#23
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Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: I've been wanting a new cx/tour type drop bar do-anything bike for a while, but haven't had the bucks for what I consider the entry level bike in that category--the Novara Randonee. Now this guy is selling "Windsor Tourists" on Ebay for $550usd brand new. The spec is exactly what I want: cromo frame and fork, components are a mix of Tiagra, Deore, and Ritchey. Perfect. I don't mind buying on line--sizing is a non-issue as I measured my current well fitting bike and it jives with the Tourist, and I'm a good wrench myself and if it arrives with maladjusted anything, I'll be able to tweak it. My LBS sucks and I would rather eat glass than buy something big from them. Is this like those "Asian Motobecanes" that are too good to be true? 550 for a 1500 (list) bike is mighty tempting. We just built one for a customer who bought one on-line. It's not even close to a $1500 value; not nearly as nice in build quality or componenets as, for example, a Trek 520 (which sells for $1100). I don't understand why people would trash a bike shop for whatever reasons but not find such deceptive advertising practices to be a giant red flag. If we were selling such a bike on the floor, I'd guess it's retail value to be around $750 or so, once it's fully set up. Of course, at a bike shop, that $750 includes a warranty. My guess is that you'll have a much tougher time with a frame failure (getting it taken care of) on a Windsor than on a name-brand bike. Best thing there is to run things backward and find out who actually imports them, how long the business has been around, what else they do, and whether you can get them to write a warranty that ties into something other than just their on-line persona. As for being like an "Asian Motobecane" well, that's exactly what it is. I don't have the box in front of me, so I don't recall if it was either Taiwan or Chinese in origin. Not that either of those is bad per se, but it bears no resemblance to the Windsor of old. If you want a project to work on, you'll have that, as it comes in a box "assembled" in the same manner as all such bikes. In our shop, that means about 2 hours of assembly and check-out to make sure everything's the way it ought to be. It's not something to be done by someone who's never trued wheels or set up brakes. If you've done overhauls on your own bikes before, no biggie. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com Oh, please. The Windsor Tourist as a Fuji touring under a different label. It's made in Taiwan and at $600 delivered is a far better value than a Trek 520 for double that...plus it has a proper threaded quill, unlike the Trek. A friend just bought a $800 + tax Specialized Sequoia at a LBS and it only came with Sora shifters/brake levers and I have Tiagra. The components are of very good quality for that price and it comes 95% set up. The instructions that come with it suck. I bought one and had it assembled in under two hours using instructions for the shifters from the Shimano web site (they are very good). Hardest part was the front deraileur and that was not hard at all. Rear deraileur was spot on from the factory. Wheels are true. The welds are good machine quality and the paint job is very good (not crazy about the color, but so what?) I've only got about 100 miles on it so far. Have added Planet Bike fenders, Planet Bike speedometer/odometer, Specialized Milano leather saddle (did not care for the supplied saddle although it looked good quality, personal thing), Tektro auxiliary brake levers, ritchey clipless pedals. No problem mounting any of it. Bike rides smoothly. Shifts easy and securely. Brakes are fine. No light-weight, but that's not what I was looking for. Altogether, I have about $100 in add-ons on it. I don't think anyone can match this as a touring bike for the $700 I have in it. There are really few choices in true touring bikes at under $1000 making this bike a screaming bargain. The $1500 "retail" price is pure puffery and no sensible person believes it for a second. More reasonable retail would be something like $800 or $900. The seller (BikesDirect) is silly to inflate the retail that much. It's a keeper. |
#24
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There are really few choices in true touring bikes at under $1000
making this bike a screaming bargain. The $1500 "retail" price is pure puffery and no sensible person believes it for a second. More reasonable retail would be something like $800 or $900. The seller (BikesDirect) is silly to inflate the retail that much. But that "pure puffery" actually sucks people in, and severely distorts the actual worth of the bike. And the assembly we did with the bike we built was as time consuming as any other; done to high standards, it's easily a 2+ hour job (including stress-releiving wheels, lubricating all threaded surfaces, removing & properly re-torqueing cranks & bottom bracket etc). Plus whatever fitting services a decent shop would be doing. There's also the warranty issue... there is, in fact, no "Motobecane" company anymore, just a name. No address or phone number either, just an email drop. No local dealers that I can discover either. That doesn't make it a bad bike for the money. It could be a good deal for someone who's mechanically inclined, not concerned about warranty issues, knows the type of riding they want to do, have a clue about size and can see the bike for the value it actually is (vs what's claimed). And there are definitely people in this newsgroup that fit that definition! But that's not the public at large. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA "nopcbs" wrote in message oups.com... Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: I've been wanting a new cx/tour type drop bar do-anything bike for a while, but haven't had the bucks for what I consider the entry level bike in that category--the Novara Randonee. Now this guy is selling "Windsor Tourists" on Ebay for $550usd brand new. The spec is exactly what I want: cromo frame and fork, components are a mix of Tiagra, Deore, and Ritchey. Perfect. I don't mind buying on line--sizing is a non-issue as I measured my current well fitting bike and it jives with the Tourist, and I'm a good wrench myself and if it arrives with maladjusted anything, I'll be able to tweak it. My LBS sucks and I would rather eat glass than buy something big from them. Is this like those "Asian Motobecanes" that are too good to be true? 550 for a 1500 (list) bike is mighty tempting. We just built one for a customer who bought one on-line. It's not even close to a $1500 value; not nearly as nice in build quality or componenets as, for example, a Trek 520 (which sells for $1100). I don't understand why people would trash a bike shop for whatever reasons but not find such deceptive advertising practices to be a giant red flag. If we were selling such a bike on the floor, I'd guess it's retail value to be around $750 or so, once it's fully set up. Of course, at a bike shop, that $750 includes a warranty. My guess is that you'll have a much tougher time with a frame failure (getting it taken care of) on a Windsor than on a name-brand bike. Best thing there is to run things backward and find out who actually imports them, how long the business has been around, what else they do, and whether you can get them to write a warranty that ties into something other than just their on-line persona. As for being like an "Asian Motobecane" well, that's exactly what it is. I don't have the box in front of me, so I don't recall if it was either Taiwan or Chinese in origin. Not that either of those is bad per se, but it bears no resemblance to the Windsor of old. If you want a project to work on, you'll have that, as it comes in a box "assembled" in the same manner as all such bikes. In our shop, that means about 2 hours of assembly and check-out to make sure everything's the way it ought to be. It's not something to be done by someone who's never trued wheels or set up brakes. If you've done overhauls on your own bikes before, no biggie. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com Oh, please. The Windsor Tourist as a Fuji touring under a different label. It's made in Taiwan and at $600 delivered is a far better value than a Trek 520 for double that...plus it has a proper threaded quill, unlike the Trek. A friend just bought a $800 + tax Specialized Sequoia at a LBS and it only came with Sora shifters/brake levers and I have Tiagra. The components are of very good quality for that price and it comes 95% set up. The instructions that come with it suck. I bought one and had it assembled in under two hours using instructions for the shifters from the Shimano web site (they are very good). Hardest part was the front deraileur and that was not hard at all. Rear deraileur was spot on from the factory. Wheels are true. The welds are good machine quality and the paint job is very good (not crazy about the color, but so what?) I've only got about 100 miles on it so far. Have added Planet Bike fenders, Planet Bike speedometer/odometer, Specialized Milano leather saddle (did not care for the supplied saddle although it looked good quality, personal thing), Tektro auxiliary brake levers, ritchey clipless pedals. No problem mounting any of it. Bike rides smoothly. Shifts easy and securely. Brakes are fine. No light-weight, but that's not what I was looking for. Altogether, I have about $100 in add-ons on it. I don't think anyone can match this as a touring bike for the $700 I have in it. There are really few choices in true touring bikes at under $1000 making this bike a screaming bargain. The $1500 "retail" price is pure puffery and no sensible person believes it for a second. More reasonable retail would be something like $800 or $900. The seller (BikesDirect) is silly to inflate the retail that much. It's a keeper. |
#25
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"nopcbs" wrote in message
oups.com... Oh, please. The Windsor Tourist as a Fuji touring under a different label. It's made in Taiwan and at $600 delivered is a far better value than a Trek 520 for double that...plus it has a proper threaded quill, unlike the Trek. All true, but if the Fuji Tour has a problem you can go to a Fuji dealer for service. That said, most people never go back to a bicycle shop for warranty service, especially on a road bicycle with a steel frame. The other components don't often fail within the warranty period if they are of reasonable quality. It's a risk that many people are willing to take. If my touring bicycle frame broke, I couldn't even get another touring bicycle from Specialized, as they don't make them anymore, so the lifetime warranty on the frame doesn't help me at all. Ditto for those with a Miyata 1000, a Shogun, or any of the other 1980-1990's touring bicycles, except Trek of Fuji. The Trek 520 isn't bad, but it has some design flaws for a touring bicycle. There are really few choices in true touring bikes at under $1000 making this bike a screaming bargain. The $1500 "retail" price is pure puffery and no sensible person believes it for a second. More reasonable retail would be something like $800 or $900. The seller I think that the extra money for the Fuji version might be worth it, if it's $100 difference or so. Yeah, you gotta love those inflated MSRPs. I recently bought some horizontal blinds from JC Penney. The retail price was about 3x times the actual price, and I'm relatively certain that no one has ever paid even 1/2 the retail price. |
#26
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"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message news:7tE6e.594
But that "pure puffery" actually sucks people in, and severely distorts the actual worth of the bike. I doubt it. People are so used to wildly inflated MSRPs that they have lost the effect of making the buyer believe that they are getting a great deal because they're paying half of a phony MSRP. Look at automobiles, where the MSRP has become meaningless, and now people negotiate down from the invoice price. When was the last time anyone paid even invoice for a new vehicle, let alone MSRP, unless it was for a vehicle in exceptionally high demand, i.e. Honda Odyssey. The last Trek bicycle I purchased had an MSRP of $1650. I paid $1100 (your shop had it for $1000, but didn't have the size I needed, and couldn't get it, as it was a closeout sale of the previous year's model). I've found that purchasing the previous year's model often has another benefit besides price; many manufacturers de-content their bicycles from year to year to keep the price points the same, for the same model name. And the assembly we did with the bike we built was as time consuming as any other; How much do you charge for something like that? $150? Remember, it's not how much you spend, it's how much you save! |
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