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Generator light optics
[I copied r.b.tech with my reponse.]
Mike Kruger wrote: Are there any simple ways to improve the light output of old Schwinn-approved generator sets? I have a nice bottle genertor (Busch and Muller Dymotec S6) and light (Bisy) -- 6 volt, 3 watt (no rear light). This is described at: http://peterwhitecycles.com/dymotec.asp When I use this with an auxiliary light (one of those Cateye halogens that use 4 AA batteries), the generator light is far brighter than the Cateye. (Just like Frank K is always posting.) But, alas, the state of the dollar versus the euro makes these things much more expensive than they used to be. I also have been doing some bike salvage, and have ended up with a handful of generators off old Schwinn bikes. I can tolerate the added drag on bikes where I don't expect to use the generator much, but the light is much dimmer -- "be seen" quality, and much dimmer than the Cateye. Part of this is due to the lower wattage (6 volt, 2.4 watt with rear light) but I suspect the rest is due to the bulb (standard versus halogen) and the reflector optics. So: -- Any simple way to improve the light output? -- I'm assuming these generators work with newer lights (thus getting better optics) as long as I match 6 volt, 2.4 watt, but if anybody has experience to the contrary I'd be happy to hear it. So, to make sure I have it clear: you're trying to put together another generator set for a second bike, and do it inexpensively. It's true that generator output doesn't change much across different brands. As I understand, German standards ensure that. And in my experience, generator lamps have widely variable optics among the different brands. Bulbs also vary, depending on type. You could try putting a good halogen bulb for the lamps you have. I once put a 2.4 watt halogen bulb into a dirt cheap department store generator for a friend's bike. I was surprised and impressed with the light output and the optics. You may be able to find a 6 volt, 2.4 watt halogen bulb at a "good" bike shop - one with fenders on display instead of carbon fiber cranks! It'll cost less than $7. Of course, you can get bulbs from the same sort of shops via mail order. Peter White, http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.htm and Sheldon's Harris Cyclery http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/lumotec.html don't seem to mention bulbs, but I bet if you e-mailed, they'd sell you one. If not, Reflectalite http://www.reflectalite.com/ definitely has them. The next level of improvment would be to use a better headlight. I've got three different models of Union lamps that I've used, and each is different in its optics, so you might want to try some trial and error. Of course, those $20 Lumotecs at Sheldon's site ought to do the job, and of course, they come with a bulb. Further details: Don't neglect to double-wire the headlight. That is, don't rely on the bike frame as a ground. And finally, the position of the light makes a difference. I like it best when the light's mounted about 24" to 27" above the ground and far enough forward to not be blocked by the tire. I made a rack to hold it there, above the front of the tire. I still haven't gotten around to using a 3W bulb in my lights. I do have a switch on my generator taillight, and I can switch it off. This overdrives the 2.4 watt headlight and brightens it noticeably. So far, no problems with bulb life. (I do have back-to-back Zener diodes in the circuit for some overload protection.) -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
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#2
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[I copied r.b.tech with my reponse.]
Mike Kruger wrote: Are there any simple ways to improve the light output of old Schwinn-approved generator sets? I have a nice bottle genertor (Busch and Muller Dymotec S6) and light (Bisy) -- 6 volt, 3 watt (no rear light). This is described at: http://peterwhitecycles.com/dymotec.asp When I use this with an auxiliary light (one of those Cateye halogens that use 4 AA batteries), the generator light is far brighter than the Cateye. (Just like Frank K is always posting.) But, alas, the state of the dollar versus the euro makes these things much more expensive than they used to be. I also have been doing some bike salvage, and have ended up with a handful of generators off old Schwinn bikes. I can tolerate the added drag on bikes where I don't expect to use the generator much, but the light is much dimmer -- "be seen" quality, and much dimmer than the Cateye. Part of this is due to the lower wattage (6 volt, 2.4 watt with rear light) but I suspect the rest is due to the bulb (standard versus halogen) and the reflector optics. So: -- Any simple way to improve the light output? -- I'm assuming these generators work with newer lights (thus getting better optics) as long as I match 6 volt, 2.4 watt, but if anybody has experience to the contrary I'd be happy to hear it. So, to make sure I have it clear: you're trying to put together another generator set for a second bike, and do it inexpensively. It's true that generator output doesn't change much across different brands. As I understand, German standards ensure that. And in my experience, generator lamps have widely variable optics among the different brands. Bulbs also vary, depending on type. You could try putting a good halogen bulb for the lamps you have. I once put a 2.4 watt halogen bulb into a dirt cheap department store generator for a friend's bike. I was surprised and impressed with the light output and the optics. You may be able to find a 6 volt, 2.4 watt halogen bulb at a "good" bike shop - one with fenders on display instead of carbon fiber cranks! It'll cost less than $7. Of course, you can get bulbs from the same sort of shops via mail order. Peter White, http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.htm and Sheldon's Harris Cyclery http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/lumotec.html don't seem to mention bulbs, but I bet if you e-mailed, they'd sell you one. If not, Reflectalite http://www.reflectalite.com/ definitely has them. The next level of improvment would be to use a better headlight. I've got three different models of Union lamps that I've used, and each is different in its optics, so you might want to try some trial and error. Of course, those $20 Lumotecs at Sheldon's site ought to do the job, and of course, they come with a bulb. Further details: Don't neglect to double-wire the headlight. That is, don't rely on the bike frame as a ground. And finally, the position of the light makes a difference. I like it best when the light's mounted about 24" to 27" above the ground and far enough forward to not be blocked by the tire. I made a rack to hold it there, above the front of the tire. I still haven't gotten around to using a 3W bulb in my lights. I do have a switch on my generator taillight, and I can switch it off. This overdrives the 2.4 watt headlight and brightens it noticeably. So far, no problems with bulb life. (I do have back-to-back Zener diodes in the circuit for some overload protection.) -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
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"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
... So, to make sure I have it clear: you're trying to put together another generator set for a second bike, and do it inexpensively. Yep; the B&M S6 generator with the Bisy light (good stuff) is on the bike I would ordinarily use in the dark; This setup would be for a lightly used bike (pun intended). I'd also like to put these on my daughters' bikes -- they seldom ride in the dark, and if they are late at the college library I doubt if it bothers them much if they forgot the bike lights Dad gave them. The cheap generator's always there, and not much of a theft magnet. You could try putting a good halogen bulb for the lamps you have. I once put a 2.4 watt halogen bulb into a dirt cheap department store generator for a friend's bike. I was surprised and impressed with the light output and the optics. You may be able to find a 6 volt, 2.4 watt halogen bulb at a "good" bike shop - one with fenders on display instead of carbon fiber cranks! It'll cost less than $7. Good idea Further details: Don't neglect to double-wire the headlight. That is, don't rely on the bike frame as a ground. Yes, the cheap generator/light combo is single wired. I thought that would be sufficient on an all-steel bike. -- Mike Kruger The road to hell is now paved with PowerPoint presenations. |
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"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
... So, to make sure I have it clear: you're trying to put together another generator set for a second bike, and do it inexpensively. Yep; the B&M S6 generator with the Bisy light (good stuff) is on the bike I would ordinarily use in the dark; This setup would be for a lightly used bike (pun intended). I'd also like to put these on my daughters' bikes -- they seldom ride in the dark, and if they are late at the college library I doubt if it bothers them much if they forgot the bike lights Dad gave them. The cheap generator's always there, and not much of a theft magnet. You could try putting a good halogen bulb for the lamps you have. I once put a 2.4 watt halogen bulb into a dirt cheap department store generator for a friend's bike. I was surprised and impressed with the light output and the optics. You may be able to find a 6 volt, 2.4 watt halogen bulb at a "good" bike shop - one with fenders on display instead of carbon fiber cranks! It'll cost less than $7. Good idea Further details: Don't neglect to double-wire the headlight. That is, don't rely on the bike frame as a ground. Yes, the cheap generator/light combo is single wired. I thought that would be sufficient on an all-steel bike. -- Mike Kruger The road to hell is now paved with PowerPoint presenations. |
#5
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In article 1097632859.4WEP0NTtyME6ziqcb29aPg@teranews,
"Mike Kruger" writes: Further details: Don't neglect to double-wire the headlight. That is, don't rely on the bike frame as a ground. Yes, the cheap generator/light combo is single wired. I thought that would be sufficient on an all-steel bike. I've found single-wiring is never good enough in the rain; it loves too much to short out. Besides, it punches holes through paint and does nasty stuff to frame material. For double-wiring I like used-&-limp, black lamp cord. It stays put in the wiring path so very well. It's a lot more relaxed than a coil of new, plastic insulated, colour-coded, 2-conductor from Radio Shack. I'll also second Frank's suggestion of trying various headlights. I still like the 'traditional' Union light -- the old 4" diameter one with the vertical, fresnel-like striations in the lens, with a little bas-relief 'U' at the top. Interestingly, it seems to also serve as a pretty good front reflector in daylight. But I've had good luck with other headlights. Well, the cheap, plastic toy, CCM one from Canadian Tire. It's actually not a bad headlight. My current supply of lamps is slightly underrated; like, 5.8 volts or something like that. They seem to burn a little brighter than the usually recommended lamp, but they don't last as long. I might go through 2/year. They have the same base and spherical glass globe as the 'correct' lamp. Unfortunately I can't find the box they came in, so I can't tell you the exact ratings right now (it's not stamped on the bases of the lamps.) But I'll look for it. It's around here somewhere. Speaking of tire-rubbing generators in rain -- skipping. That seems to be at least in part a function of the robustness of the mounting bracket. Cheap, stamped-metal brackets are just too bendy. Stouter, tempered steel is called for. It might not hurt to temper it yourself, with a Bernz-O-Matic propane torch. Provided the spring that holds the generator wheel against the tire is tempered enough, itself. In my experience there can be a sweet spot on the tire where the generator wheel contacts, and it might take mere micrometer adjustments to get it there. It can take a little fiddling around to get a tire-driven generator working properly, but it can be done. cheers, Tom -- -- Nothing is safe from me. Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca |
#6
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In article 1097632859.4WEP0NTtyME6ziqcb29aPg@teranews,
"Mike Kruger" writes: Further details: Don't neglect to double-wire the headlight. That is, don't rely on the bike frame as a ground. Yes, the cheap generator/light combo is single wired. I thought that would be sufficient on an all-steel bike. I've found single-wiring is never good enough in the rain; it loves too much to short out. Besides, it punches holes through paint and does nasty stuff to frame material. For double-wiring I like used-&-limp, black lamp cord. It stays put in the wiring path so very well. It's a lot more relaxed than a coil of new, plastic insulated, colour-coded, 2-conductor from Radio Shack. I'll also second Frank's suggestion of trying various headlights. I still like the 'traditional' Union light -- the old 4" diameter one with the vertical, fresnel-like striations in the lens, with a little bas-relief 'U' at the top. Interestingly, it seems to also serve as a pretty good front reflector in daylight. But I've had good luck with other headlights. Well, the cheap, plastic toy, CCM one from Canadian Tire. It's actually not a bad headlight. My current supply of lamps is slightly underrated; like, 5.8 volts or something like that. They seem to burn a little brighter than the usually recommended lamp, but they don't last as long. I might go through 2/year. They have the same base and spherical glass globe as the 'correct' lamp. Unfortunately I can't find the box they came in, so I can't tell you the exact ratings right now (it's not stamped on the bases of the lamps.) But I'll look for it. It's around here somewhere. Speaking of tire-rubbing generators in rain -- skipping. That seems to be at least in part a function of the robustness of the mounting bracket. Cheap, stamped-metal brackets are just too bendy. Stouter, tempered steel is called for. It might not hurt to temper it yourself, with a Bernz-O-Matic propane torch. Provided the spring that holds the generator wheel against the tire is tempered enough, itself. In my experience there can be a sweet spot on the tire where the generator wheel contacts, and it might take mere micrometer adjustments to get it there. It can take a little fiddling around to get a tire-driven generator working properly, but it can be done. cheers, Tom -- -- Nothing is safe from me. Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca |
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Tom Keats wrote:
Speaking of tire-rubbing generators in rain -- skipping. That seems to be at least in part a function of the robustness of the mounting bracket. Cheap, stamped-metal brackets are just too bendy. Stouter, tempered steel is called for. It might not hurt to temper it yourself, with a Bernz-O-Matic propane torch. Hmm. I'm not optimistic about being able to temper the steel used in most brackets, especially for an amateur using a propane torch. To temper (or, more properly, heat treat) steel, it's got to have enough carbon content to be classed as "medium carbon." Things like those brackets are usually made of low carbon steel. You can try heating one up to red heat then quenching it, but I doubt it will harden. It might be easier to just make your own stouter bracket. Get the strength with more thickness or a stronger shape, rather than by heat treating. Provided the spring that holds the generator wheel against the tire is tempered enough, itself. In my experience there can be a sweet spot on the tire where the generator wheel contacts, and it might take mere micrometer adjustments to get it there. It can take a little fiddling around to get a tire-driven generator working properly, but it can be done. I have one friend who's sidewall generator slipped badly in the rain, at least on one ride. I don't know how well it's adjusted, though. Some generators have (at least, as options) rollers made differently - sort of like wire brushes - to cut through the water on the tire's side and grip in the wet. I've never experimented with such a thing, but it wouldn't be hard to modify or replace the roller that runs on the sidewall of a tire. For most of the past 15 years, I've used a bottom bracket generator, the kind that rolls on the tire's tread. I've had a few incidents of minor slipping, but only when I've ridden through wet mud. Maybe my generator pushes pretty hard on the tire. -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
#8
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Tom Keats wrote:
Speaking of tire-rubbing generators in rain -- skipping. That seems to be at least in part a function of the robustness of the mounting bracket. Cheap, stamped-metal brackets are just too bendy. Stouter, tempered steel is called for. It might not hurt to temper it yourself, with a Bernz-O-Matic propane torch. Hmm. I'm not optimistic about being able to temper the steel used in most brackets, especially for an amateur using a propane torch. To temper (or, more properly, heat treat) steel, it's got to have enough carbon content to be classed as "medium carbon." Things like those brackets are usually made of low carbon steel. You can try heating one up to red heat then quenching it, but I doubt it will harden. It might be easier to just make your own stouter bracket. Get the strength with more thickness or a stronger shape, rather than by heat treating. Provided the spring that holds the generator wheel against the tire is tempered enough, itself. In my experience there can be a sweet spot on the tire where the generator wheel contacts, and it might take mere micrometer adjustments to get it there. It can take a little fiddling around to get a tire-driven generator working properly, but it can be done. I have one friend who's sidewall generator slipped badly in the rain, at least on one ride. I don't know how well it's adjusted, though. Some generators have (at least, as options) rollers made differently - sort of like wire brushes - to cut through the water on the tire's side and grip in the wet. I've never experimented with such a thing, but it wouldn't be hard to modify or replace the roller that runs on the sidewall of a tire. For most of the past 15 years, I've used a bottom bracket generator, the kind that rolls on the tire's tread. I've had a few incidents of minor slipping, but only when I've ridden through wet mud. Maybe my generator pushes pretty hard on the tire. -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
#9
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"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
... Some generators have (at least, as options) rollers made differently - sort of like wire brushes - to cut through the water on the tire's side and grip in the wet. I've never experimented with such a thing, but it wouldn't be hard to modify or replace the roller that runs on the sidewall of a tire. My "good" B&M S6 generator came with two wheels, one of which is like a wire brush. The good news: works well in rainy conditions. The bad news: tends to eat up the tire, especially if the generator gets a little bit out of radial adjustment, so you are "scrubbing" the tire. It would be nice if this was designed so you could change wheels while riding, but the wheel is held in place by a tiny clip, and it's hard enough to change on a lighted workbench with a clean floor; changing it on a dark, rainy night would likely lead to the loss of the tiny clip -- and no way to attach either wheel. -- Mike Kruger The road to hell is now paved with PowerPoint presenations. |
#10
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"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
... Some generators have (at least, as options) rollers made differently - sort of like wire brushes - to cut through the water on the tire's side and grip in the wet. I've never experimented with such a thing, but it wouldn't be hard to modify or replace the roller that runs on the sidewall of a tire. My "good" B&M S6 generator came with two wheels, one of which is like a wire brush. The good news: works well in rainy conditions. The bad news: tends to eat up the tire, especially if the generator gets a little bit out of radial adjustment, so you are "scrubbing" the tire. It would be nice if this was designed so you could change wheels while riding, but the wheel is held in place by a tiny clip, and it's hard enough to change on a lighted workbench with a clean floor; changing it on a dark, rainy night would likely lead to the loss of the tiny clip -- and no way to attach either wheel. -- Mike Kruger The road to hell is now paved with PowerPoint presenations. |
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