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#91
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Sep 26, 2:11 pm, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
y_p_w wrote: I said that more than likely a black bear sow will do nothing, but it's not as if the chances are zero. Excruciatingly rare? Yes. Zero? No. Probably zero. Massachusetts Fish & Wildlife: http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_b...aqs.htm#prob14 "Black bear sows are extraordinarily tolerant-although uncomfortable- of people who approach their cubs. A Michigan biologist reported that only 4 sows chased away researchers during live-trapping and handling of 300 bears." Interesting, but it does *not* support your claims that black bears will attack to protect cubs. I never said they would or even that it's common. That would be Vandeman. My only contention is that it isn't **impossible** for a black bear sow to attack a person if it believes it's protecting its cubs and I've heard of enough incidents to say that however improbable, it is possible. If I thought that a black bear sow with cubs stood a reasonable probability of attacking me if I got near its cubs, I'd have marks from the one I came across last June. I guess I could bring up several instances or recommendations by wildlife authorities, and they would all be shot down as not being conclusive or possibly being clueless because they don't conform to your assertions. What standard of proof do you need? Maybe some sort of brain scan on a semi-conscious bear pulling out its thoughts before being put down? Or maybe a global bear monitoring system that tracks to location of sows and their cubs? A lot of these incidents I cited include wildlife biologists saying that a sow protecting cubs was at least a contributory (if not sole) reason for an attack. You're mentioning absolutes, and I don't think there are any when talking about animal behavior. Here's another one: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew..._attack_061015 A Port Moody, B.C. woman was nursing deep bite wounds on Sunday after a run-in with a black bear on her front lawn on Saturday near midnight. Jan Lanz, 57, heard her dog barking and went outside to investigate. When she saw her dog barking at a bear going through her garbage, she picked up a garbage can. "I whipped the can as hard as I could and hit the bear in the head," Lanz told CTV Vancouver in an interview from her bed Sunday morning. The bear took off, and Lanz thought the incident was over. What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and returned to protect her cubs "I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the head." --snip-- The bear and her cubs will not be hunted down or destroyed, police said. "She got in between the mother bear and the two cubs, the dog is fighting with the two bears, and there's a lot of screaming and yelling and commotion," explained Port Moody Const. Phil Reid. "I can just imagine that mama bear was a little concerned and took a bite of the victim," he said. |
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#92
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
"y_p_w" wrote in message s.com... On Sep 26, 10:50 am, "Ryan Robbins" wrote: "y_p_w" wrote in message ups.com... On Sep 25, 4:22 pm, "Ryan Robbins" wrote: Again, there are zero known cases of bears attacking humans in order to protect cubs. Just because there were cubs present doesn't mean that's why the mother bear attacked. So no, the cases listed are not known cases of a mother bear protecting her cubs. The Jacksonville Zoo doesn't agree with your assessment. http://www.jaxzoo.org/animals/biofac...nBlackBear.asp The zoo can say anything it wants. The research and anecdotal evidence doesn't support the theory, though. However - there's been enough information that there have been occasional attacks when someone has gotten between a black bear sow and cubs. When? I said that more than likely a black bear sow will do nothing, but it's not as if the chances are zero. Excruciatingly rare? Yes. Zero? No. Massachusetts Fish & Wildlife: http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_b...aqs.htm#prob14 "Black bear sows are extraordinarily tolerant-although uncomfortable- of people who approach their cubs. A Michigan biologist reported that only 4 sows chased away researchers during live-trapping and handling of 300 bears." At issue is whether there are any known cases of mother black bears attacking humans in order to defend their cubs. Chasing researchers doesn't equal attacking researchers. Bear attack on a couple of bow hunters in Idaho. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West....ap/index.html "POCATELLO, Idaho (AP) -- A man armed with a bow shot and killed a mother black bear that had attacked his son while she was protecting her cubs. Again, mere speculation, mostly based on the myth. There is NOTHING in the story to support the claim. Pennsylvania Fish & Wildlife: "Bears are mainly nocturnal, but they sometimes feed and travel by day. Alert and wary, they tend to avoid open areas. Individuals are solitary. While most bears will run from a human, a female with cubs should be respected and on rare occasions might actually attack if she feels her young are in danger." Again, speculation. For crying out loud, there was a long story in my local paper from an outdoorsman who discussed preparing for black bear hunting season, which is in full swing. Here's a guy who presents himself as knowledgeable all things hunting. And yet he stresses in his column that regardless of whether you're out in teh woods to hunt bears or to watch and photograph them you should carry a gun with you just in case. That's hilarious. The problem is, the "experts" want to cover their butts. Of course there's always a chance a black bear will attack, just like there's always a chance the stranger on the stree is going to punch you in the face or steal your wallet. So what better way to protect yourself from a frivolous lawsuit than to pander to the lowest common denominator, which is that all bears can be dangerous. Colorado Division of Wildlife: http://wildlife.state.co.us/Wildlife...earCountry.htm "In contrast to grizzly bears, female black bears do not normally defend their cubs aggressively; but send them up trees. However, use extra caution if you encounter a female black bear with cubs. Move away from the cub; be on the lookout for other cubs." Once again, nothing that shows there have ever been any known cases of a mother black bear attacking in order to protect her cubs. |
#93
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
"y_p_w" wrote in message oups.com... What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and returned to protect her cubs "I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the head." Uh, if you hit me in the head with a metal object, I might regroup myself and come back to retaliate. "She got in between the mother bear and the two cubs, the dog is fighting with the two bears, and there's a lot of screaming and yelling and commotion," explained Port Moody Const. Phil Reid. And we know that the police are always right about everything, too, don't we? Just like a local police chief here a few years ago who said on the news during Christmas season that suicides increase during the holidays. (Hint: That's another myth.) |
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Sep 27, 12:29 am, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message oups.com... What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and returned to protect her cubs "I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the head." Uh, if you hit me in the head with a metal object, I might regroup myself and come back to retaliate. You are human. However - my understanding of black bears is that they typically avoid conflict and take getting hit in head as a sign that they should leave to avoid getting hit again. Again - there are exceptions, and this seemed to be one. I think we've gotten to the point where you insist it's impossible, but I'm saying that however improbable it is possible. I can come up with the occasional incident or report and I can tell you're going to insist that the person is either unqualified or that the analysis was incorrect. http://hgic.clemson.edu/pdf/pcwdblack_bears.pdf "Scott E. Hygnstrom Extension Wildlife Damage Specialist Department of Forestry, Fisheries and Wildlife University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0819 Black bears are powerful animals that have few natural enemies. Despite their strength and dominant position, they are remarkably tolerant of humans. Interactions between people and black bears are usually benign. When surprised or protecting cubs, a black bear will threaten the intruder by laying back its ears, uttering a series of huffs, chopping its jaws, and stamping its feet. This may be followed by a charge, but in most instances it is only a bluff, as the bear will advance only a few yards (m) before stopping. There are very few cases where a black bear has charged and attacked a human." Again - rare but not unheard of. |
#95
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
In article .com,
y_p_w wrote: Here's another one: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...r_attack_06101 5 A Port Moody, B.C. woman was nursing deep bite wounds on Sunday after a run-in with a black bear on her front lawn on Saturday near midnight. Jan Lanz, 57, heard her dog barking and went outside to investigate. When she saw her dog barking at a bear going through her garbage, she picked up a garbage can. "I whipped the can as hard as I could and hit the bear in the head," Lanz told CTV Vancouver in an interview from her bed Sunday morning. The bear took off, and Lanz thought the incident was over. What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and returned to protect her cubs "I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the head." --snip-- The bear and her cubs will not be hunted down or destroyed, police said. "She got in between the mother bear and the two cubs, the dog is fighting with the two bears, and there's a lot of screaming and yelling and commotion," explained Port Moody Const. Phil Reid. "I can just imagine that mama bear was a little concerned and took a bite of the victim," he said. Now wait just a minute here...... Just because there were cubs in a tree, it is "ASSUMED" by the writer that the Female Black Bear "Returned" to protect the cubs in the tree, by the Writer of the story, or the individual who told the Writer of the story, the "Facts" of this incident. Unless the individual who stated the "Facts" is Bear Clarvoient, he can NOT come the any Specific Conclusion, on just why the Female Black Bear returned to the site. It could be just as easily "ASSUMED" that the Female Black Bear returned to the scene, to feed at the Garbage Can, AGAIN. Then finding the woman there, decided to munch her FIRST, and then return to the Garbage. Black Bears NEVER leave Food. They may run off a few yards if startled, or scared, but they will wait a bit and return, once the Direct Threat has abated. The only real way to cause the Bear to Move On, is to REMOVE the Food, PERIOD. Picking up the Garbage doesn't remove the Food, it just moves it a bit, and to the Bear, it doesn't change the Scent of Food, ANY, which is a Black Bears Primary means of finding Food. Black Bear cubs are perfectly protected when up a tree, 90% of the prediters of Black Bear Cubs, don't climb trees to eat Cubs. There is no real reason that the Female Black Bear would worry about cubs while they are up a tree. Even if she decided to Move off the Food, not likely, the cubs would follow her scent and catch up to her, once the Threat of the Human presence abated. This whole senerio is riddled with Human Interpritation of Black Bear Behaviour, in Human Terms, and not from Black Bears viewpoint. Bruce in alaska -- add path before @ |
#96
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
On Sep 27, 11:20 am, Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article .com, y_p_w wrote: Here's another one: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...61015/bear_att... 5 A Port Moody, B.C. woman was nursing deep bite wounds on Sunday after a run-in with a black bear on her front lawn on Saturday near midnight. Jan Lanz, 57, heard her dog barking and went outside to investigate. When she saw her dog barking at a bear going through her garbage, she picked up a garbage can. "I whipped the can as hard as I could and hit the bear in the head," Lanz told CTV Vancouver in an interview from her bed Sunday morning. The bear took off, and Lanz thought the incident was over. What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and returned to protect her cubs "I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the head." --snip-- The bear and her cubs will not be hunted down or destroyed, police said. "She got in between the mother bear and the two cubs, the dog is fighting with the two bears, and there's a lot of screaming and yelling and commotion," explained Port Moody Const. Phil Reid. "I can just imagine that mama bear was a little concerned and took a bite of the victim," he said. Now wait just a minute here...... Just because there were cubs in a tree, it is "ASSUMED" by the writer that the Female Black Bear "Returned" to protect the cubs in the tree, by the Writer of the story, or the individual who told the Writer of the story, the "Facts" of this incident. Unless the individual who stated the "Facts" is Bear Clarvoient, he can NOT come the any Specific Conclusion, on just why the Female Black Bear returned to the site. It could be just as easily "ASSUMED" that the Female Black Bear returned to the scene, to feed at the Garbage Can, AGAIN. Then finding the woman there, decided to munch her FIRST, and then return to the Garbage. Black Bears NEVER leave Food. They may run off a few yards if startled, or scared, but they will wait a bit and return, once the Direct Threat has abated. The only real way to cause the Bear to Move On, is to REMOVE the Food, PERIOD. Picking up the Garbage doesn't remove the Food, it just moves it a bit, and to the Bear, it doesn't change the Scent of Food, ANY, which is a Black Bears Primary means of finding Food. Black Bear cubs are perfectly protected when up a tree, 90% of the prediters of Black Bear Cubs, don't climb trees to eat Cubs. There is no real reason that the Female Black Bear would worry about cubs while they are up a tree. Even if she decided to Move off the Food, not likely, the cubs would follow her scent and catch up to her, once the Threat of the Human presence abated. This whole senerio is riddled with Human Interpritation of Black Bear Behaviour, in Human Terms, and not from Black Bears viewpoint. Certainly much of this is human interpretation. However - I'm hearing a few viewpoints painting it as an absolute that a black bear sow will never attack someone in order to protect its cubs. I believe there have been enough documented incidents where a reasonable conclusion is that protection of cubs was at least a contributory factor in the attack. It's not as if bear have some sort of failsafe mechanism wired in their brains that instructs them to not claw/bite/butt when they want to protect their cubs. |
#97
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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article .com, y_p_w wrote: Here's another one: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...r_attack_06101 5 A Port Moody, B.C. woman was nursing deep bite wounds on Sunday after a run-in with a black bear on her front lawn on Saturday near midnight. snip , once the Threat of the Human presence abated. This whole senerio is riddled with Human Interpritation of Black Bear Behaviour, in Human Terms, and not from Black Bears viewpoint. Bruce in alaska In other words, they are using antrhopomorphism. (Sorry....I just always wanted to use that word in a sentence...) |
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