i and other taxpayers pay for this?

Ok- I went to Cambridge the other day and found the Citizens Advice
Bureau because I wanted to find out about the UK law as regards
unicycling. I was given a printout from 'here'
(http://www.unicycle.org.uk/thelaw.html). Although I'm pretty unhappy
with the position we as cyclists have as regards not being allowed to
ride legally on the pavement, I feel that changing the law to allow me
to ride legally on the pavement would be a huge effort.

I had my first encounter with the authorities yesterday (Sunday). It
was quiet, and as I saw a police car pull up in a parking bay across
the one way street that I was about to cross in order to ride to the
store where I work during the week, I thought to myself- as the
situation looks safe and I'm doing no one any harm, 'let me just see
how they will respond to my riding on the pavement'. Without
dismounting, I rode safely and in a controlled mannner across the road
and made towards the store. Two officers stepped out of the car while
this happened and once I had crossed and was riding past them, they
asked that I didn't ride on the pavement as is required of them by
current UK law. I dismounted and said "ok," very calmly. However, I did
ask them what harm I was doing in riding (safely) on a quiet Sunday.
They said something to the effect of "Although you may be riding
safely, there cannot be one law for you personally and another for
everyone else," which I agreed with. When they said that unicycles
ought to be ridden on the road, I asked whether I might be able to ask
a little question. I could see that they were uncomfortable in
performing their duty as it was quite preposterous to request that I
ride on the road, so I thought I might see whether I might turn the
situation to a productive one (for me at least).

They agreed anyway and so I asked them this (or something to this
effect): "Being as it is my belief that it may in fact be -more-
dangerous for me- not due to my competence as a rider, but as a result
of motorist's surprise and the relative slowness of my vehicle in
comparison to other traffic- to ride on the road: do _you_ (addressing
the officers directly) personally, not from a legal standpoint, but
-personally- think that I am justified in holding this point of view,
because I'd like to know whether there is any point in trying to get
the law modified."

All of a sudden they said that they were very busy and could not answer
the question and they made their way off in a different direction.

I don't really blame them for feeling so uncomfortable and even though
it wouldn't have taken much time for them to have given a personal
response, it would have undermined their professional position and
would have taken the time away from the time that they could be
spending catching some -real- miscreants and in fact allocating their
time in activities that I would hope my money would go towards
financing- paying them to make our country a better and safer place for
everyone to enjoy.

Anyhow, to get to the point of this post, i was just wondering whether
anyone else had had any brush-ins with the law in the UK or elsewhere
worldwide; how you responded to it and whether there was any motion
currently in place geared towards modifying current UK legislation and
whether anyone knew of ways in which people like me, who basically
don't wish to waste police time, but want to still ride freely can
support it.



Sorry- I know it's kind of rant-y and dense, but I think there is a
point somewhere in this post...

oh, and

P.S.
i have made the h u g e effort to change my style, which is total
absence of capitalisation, in order to make my post easier on the eye
and a little more readable.

but that's tiring, so don't expect such a huge effort anytime from me
in the near future.


--
epistolize

my sig is a squiggle, but my keyboard like a trusty secretary always
organises my thoughts into lines of legible text in files so i can
scream and beat up my computer when it crashes and i haven't backed
up.

"Do illiterate people get the full effect of Alphabet soup?" 'Bite Me'
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I ride past the police all the time, on the pavement, on Muni, trials or
Giraffe uni wth no problems. I was stopped once as a joke becasue they
were bored and wanted to ask where my lights were, but they admitted to
just pulling my leg, one of them remarking as i left "You can ride that
thing anywhere". I get more hassle from university security, who have
nothing better to do and not doubt get huge trouble with skateboarders
and have no sense of humour. They usually just ask you not to do what
your doing, but this is on private property so I suppose they have a
right, I've never tried pushing the fact that I am a student and
therefore have a right to be there, although I may one day.


--
kington99

Dave

- what a thoroughly post-modern subversion of the cycling genre -
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kington99 wrote:
"You can ride that thing anywhere".



mmm- i had thought this was the case when i first bought my unicycle
along with a 'book' (http://tinyurl.com/rwh7n) which states: (and i
quote) "...your unicycle is not covered at all by the Road Traffic laws
and you can probably ride it wherever you like."

however, according to http://www.unicycle.org.uk/thelaw.html this is
not the case, as pointed out to me by the folk at the cambridge CAB.


--
epistolize

my sig is a squiggle, but my keyboard like a trusty secretary always
organises my thoughts into lines of legible text in files so i can
scream and beat up my computer when it crashes and i haven't backed
up.

"Do illiterate people get the full effect of Alphabet soup?" 'Bite Me'
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Yep, it's illegal to ride a unicycle on the pavement, but if the police
were to apply the letter of the law it's also illegal for small
children on bikes, wheelchairs, and mobility scooters.

Apparently the Home Office guidelines to police are to apply the law at
their own discretion, and only stop someone if they are causing a
danger to others. I.e. if they see an adult cycling at high speed on a
crowded pavement they should stop him, but if they see a 3 year old
riding a tricycle they should not. Although strictly you were breaking
the law, it sounds like these police were bored and looking for someone
to moan at.

I agree that the law should be changed, having one law for all kinds of
bicycles alone is ridiculous, let alone all the other types of vehicle
covered under the current law.


--
domesticated ape

i like bananas, monkey nuts and grapes
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I see the law as fair enough. We ride "pedal cycles" and so should be
on the road. With lights and reflectors and all that. There can't be
one rule for cyclists and then another for unicyclists. We want to be
treated the same as cyclists (don't we?), this would only seperate us
even more.

When Pebbles and I first started unicycling, we used to ride up the
town centre all the time. At first the cops were as surprised as
everyone else by us and told us not to ride on the pavement. I said to
him "are you seriously telling us to ride these on the road?" (We were
on 20's) He kind of looked at me funny and said "erm, yes.", you could
tell that he knew that it was daft, even though it is the law. We
replied with "we'll just push them........'til you're out of sight."

A few times after that they told us to get off and said we were
dangerous, we told them we can control the unicycles and will not hurt
anyone other than ourselves on them, and walked.......'til they were
out of sight.

Now they only tell us to get off it's really busy with people, which is
fair enough. But if it' a quiet night up town they don't bother us.
Like you say, there's folk doing much worse stuff they could(should) be
chasing.


I don't think you'll ever get the law changed, I reckon you'll just
have to see if the cops (hopefully) suss out that you are safe on your
wheel and leave you be. Like domesticated ape said, they've gotta
"apply the law at their own discretion, and only stop someone if they
are causing a danger to others" I think your cop needs to realise that
you aren't causing a danger, which in time he should. Everyones first
reaction to seeing a unicycle on the pavement is that you are totally
out of control and about to hit them.

Good luck.


T.

P.S Who'd have thought that the cops would be (reasonably) cool in
Glasgow?


--
DarkTom

'*_My_Gallery_*' (http://tinyurl.com/9bnux)
-\"just eat less pies, and then the loads on your seatpost will be
less.\" - johnhimsworth
\"i am a girl\" - amanda.gallacher
\"you could help by not making it look so darn easy.\" - chrashing
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I have in fact had a few brush-ins with the law, albeit in the
Netherlands. I've so far been stopped twice by police because I was
riding on the pavement. The first time I was quite surprised, because I
was riding on my 20" trials uni, and I was obviously well capable of
steering through the (very thin) crowd. They asked me to not cycle
here, and I happily obliged. The next time however, I came prepared,
having emailed the ministry and the dutch organisation for traffic
safety and gotten similar replies, both saying I was under pedestrian
law. I showed them the emails, and though they were both not too happy
about me being such a smart-ass (visibily, not orally), they let me
unicycle on through.

The problem with categorizing a unicycle is that they're so widespread
in their application. The problem arises pretty much with 'weird' b*kes
too, such as trialbikes or BMXes. 20" trialbikes should ride on
pavement, having about the same speed as a 20" unicycle. Whereas a
racing cycle obviously SHOULDN'T ride on pavement. Same thing with
cokers and trial-unis. They may have the same design, they're a world
of difference in application, speed and manoeverability.


--
Erant

*"There is power in your wall sockets, too, but I don't recommend that
you plug yourself in to learn a 540 unispin."* - Harper
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Just ride with David Stone, he'll yell at the cops until they leave


--
Brian MacKenzie

Justonewheel: 'Just put the new uni together in the driveway stopped to
move the car and ran over the uni.'


DVD now available: 'Training Wheel Not Required'
(http://www.LBMmultimedia.com/videos/TWNR_uniTV.wmv)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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DarkTom wrote:
There can't be one rule for cyclists and then another for unicyclists.
We want to be treated the same as cyclists (don't we?), this would only
seperate us even more.




we are all cyclists by literal definition. however, the type of
unicycle that i ride and the kind of riding that i practise
(street/freestyle) makes what i do more akin to say skateboarding or
skating.

i welcome the distinction between unicyclists and *bi*cyclists- as it
helps to define exactly what it is that we do. i agree that we want to
be treated as cyclists as opposed to scum, and human beings as opposed
to lesser life forms, but i am a unicyclist and i ride a unicycle, not
a road b*ke. to be more specific, there may be certain forms of
unicycle that are safer to ride on the road than others. For example,
if i had a 36" geared uni, i wouldn't see the need to ride it in a
highly pedestrianised area- it's not designed with that specifically in
mind. however, if i and it were properly equipped, i would feel safer
riding that on a road than i would riding a skateboard on a road in
moving traffic even though i don't argue that it can't be done.

so am I arguing that unicycles should be banished to the road, the
skatepark, the trail and the gym hall?

well it is my opinion that it is fair for unicyclists to enjoy the
pavement -and other urban features- which constitute the concretised
environment in which many of us live, so long as a certain decorum is
maintained- including, but not necessarily limited to:



- not obstructing other pavement users
- not intimidating other pavement users
- abstention from unreasonable destruction of public property
- not riding in a way that unnecessarily endangers other people's
health/safety




if we are to view the street as a resource, just as we view the natural
environment as one, then surely to deprive people of the use of the
street is comparable to (at the most extreme) depriving the climber of
his right to clamber over rocks, the rambler or hill walker of his
right to roam slopes, the kite enthusiast the right to use air.

of course there are places that are too dangerous to practise some of
these activities, both for participant and those about them.

for example, it is unsafe for a kite to be flown near a road or close
to power cables, as it is to walk over railway lines where a crossing
has not been provided, or abseiling from a bridge to the middle of a
busy motorway; just as it is inadviseable or very silly if not
downright stupid to ride in the middle of a busy international airport
or in, say for example the central london underground at rush hour.
sure there may be rideable places there, but why unnecessarily endanger
so many othe people's lives?

i don't think riding an empty street and maybe hopping onto an empty
concrete bench on a sunday qualifies for dangerous riding (i didnt
bench-hop in front of the law) and i think the law should reflect that
so that valuable police time and resources can be spent on tackling,
say, gun crime or domestic violence or theft or something like that.


--
epistolize

my sig is a squiggle, but my keyboard like a trusty secretary always
organises my thoughts into lines of legible text in files

anti-capitalisation, anti-capitalism; neither for nor against always
work well

"Do illiterate people get the full effect of Alphabet soup?" 'Bite Me'
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I've been commuting in central London for some months now, and have
never had a problem with the police. Ok, so most of the time I am on
the road, but some times it's just quicker/safer/easier to take to the
pavement, but even then I've not been stopped by the police.

A few weeks ago, however, a bunch of us were doing trials riding just
on the North side of the Thames. A couple of policemen did ask us to
move on, and explained that the laws in the City of London are subtly
different to the rest of London, and that almost everything is illegal
there.

In the last year or so, there has been a big clampdown in the UK with
regard to using a mobile phone whilst driving if it's not 'hands free'.
Around Xmas time I was riding past some slow traffic, and chatting on
my mobile when I undertook a police car. I was a bit unsure how they
would react though, as it could be argued that you don't need a hands
free kit on a vehicle that doesn't require you to use your hands... but
sadly they ignored me. Pity really, as I would have been interested to
know their stance on that point.

STM


--
semach.the.monkey
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On Mon, 1 May 2006, domesticated ape wrote:

Yep, it's illegal to ride a unicycle on the pavement, but if the police
were to apply the letter of the law it's also illegal
for small children on bikes,

True.

wheelchairs,

Not true (nor is it true that you can't push a pram / shopping trolley
/ sack barrow on the pavement).

and mobility scooters.

Not true - class 2 vehicles are intended to be ridden on
the pavement only, and class 3 vehicles are intended to be ridden on
either the pavement or in the road (with different rules depending
upon where you are). The next highway code will have a new section
specifically for these (at least, is very likely to - it's currently
in draft, and the consultative draft has such a section).

FWIW, I've never been spoken to by the police when riding my unicycle
on the pavement, even when I've ridden past them.

regards, Ian SMith
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