Mountain Bikers Are Destroying Colorado!

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 08:32:03 +1200, Disco Stu
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:58:41 +1200, Disco Stu
wrote:
.Well it could be that he is smarter than me. It could be he is a
.complete loony nutcase who is telling big fibs. I'm not going to find
.out unless I see how he justifies statements like "All mountain bikers
.are liars".

That's an empirical statement based on 9 years of listening to you guys lie
CONSTANTLY.

Well that certainly is a long observation period.

I wonder,

How do we compare to other groups (I assume you had several contrasting
and/or control groups)?

Have you observed a causal relationship?

Remember that you also need an objective measure of "truth" in order
to determine lying.

"Truth" for most people does not mean "total agreement with Micheal J.
Vandeman", only for the residents of Mikey World.

He is using scientific-sounding terms to justify his personal opinions
and crusade.

It is extremely unlikely that ANY group of people, mountain bikers or
not, could manage to lie 100% of the time in every single statement
for 9 years. Even if you tried very hard to lie, some truth would
inevitably creep in.

Also, there is no person in the world who could possibly had contact
with EVERY mountain biker in the world, for even one sentence each, to
be able to say that ALL mountain bikers lie ALL of the time.

But calling other people liars helps him feel that he speaks the
TRUTH. It is his attempt to brainwash people into thinking he speaks
the truth.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Gary S. wrote:

Remember that you also need an objective measure of "truth" in order
to determine lying.




Since "truth" in any recognizable & generally agreed upon form has been
one primary goal of philosophers, sages, luminaries & other professional
thinking persons for several millennia with no discernable measure of
success I daresay that here as in all other MV-related threads there is
much sand being poured down some very deep, dark holes.

Pete H

--
Either everyone has rights or some have privileges.
It's really that simple.
Walt Kelly

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:39:17 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

..On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 08:32:03 +1200, Disco Stu
wrote:
..
..Mike Vandeman wrote:
.. On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:58:41 +1200, Disco Stu
.. wrote:
.. .Well it could be that he is smarter than me. It could be he is a
.. .complete loony nutcase who is telling big fibs. I'm not going to find
.. .out unless I see how he justifies statements like "All mountain bikers
.. .are liars".
..
.. That's an empirical statement based on 9 years of listening to you guys lie
.. CONSTANTLY.
..
..Well that certainly is a long observation period.
..
..I wonder,
..
..How do we compare to other groups (I assume you had several contrasting
..and/or control groups)?
..
..Have you observed a causal relationship?
..
..Remember that you also need an objective measure of "truth" in order
..to determine lying.
..
.."Truth" for most people does not mean "total agreement with Micheal J.
..Vandeman", only for the residents of Mikey World.

Just like a mountain biker, not to know what a lie is.

..He is using scientific-sounding terms to justify his personal opinions
..and crusade.
..
..It is extremely unlikely that ANY group of people, mountain bikers or
..not, could manage to lie 100% of the time in every single statement
..for 9 years.

I didn't say that. Learn to read.

Even if you tried very hard to lie, some truth would
..inevitably creep in.
..
..Also, there is no person in the world who could possibly had contact
..with EVERY mountain biker in the world,

I didn't say that, liar. See how easy it is?

for even one sentence each, to
..be able to say that ALL mountain bikers lie ALL of the time.
..
..But calling other people liars helps him feel that he speaks the
..TRUTH. It is his attempt to brainwash people into thinking he speaks
..the truth.
..
..Happy trails,
..Gary (net.yogi.bear)
..------------------------------------------------
..at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence
..
..Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
..Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman wrote:

.It is extremely unlikely that ANY group of people, mountain bikers or
.not, could manage to lie 100% of the time in every single statement
.for 9 years.

I didn't say that. Learn to read.

Even if you tried very hard to lie, some truth would
.inevitably creep in.
.
.Also, there is no person in the world who could possibly had contact
.with EVERY mountain biker in the world,

I didn't say that, liar. See how easy it is?

Well Mike, if I can quote you here from a few posts back...

"Proving that mountain bikers are ALL liars. Every last one. QED".

Looking at this statement, you even go so far as to stress and reinforce
that you mean _ALL_ MTBers are liars.

I've given you a chance to present your argument. I was quite willing
to take what you had to say seriously, but within a few posts all you've
seem to be able to do is rustle up a bit of inflammatory rhetoric and
contradict yourself.

I'm putting you in my list of people to ignore from now on.

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:34:36 +1200, Disco Stu
wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..
.. .It is extremely unlikely that ANY group of people, mountain bikers or
.. .not, could manage to lie 100% of the time in every single statement
.. .for 9 years.
..
.. I didn't say that. Learn to read.
..
.. Even if you tried very hard to lie, some truth would
.. .inevitably creep in.
.. .
.. .Also, there is no person in the world who could possibly had contact
.. .with EVERY mountain biker in the world,
..
.. I didn't say that, liar. See how easy it is?
..
..Well Mike, if I can quote you here from a few posts back...
..
.."Proving that mountain bikers are ALL liars. Every last one. QED".
..
..Looking at this statement, you even go so far as to stress and reinforce
..that you mean _ALL_ MTBers are liars.

I have yet to meet one that didn't lie. You could be the first....

..I've given you a chance to present your argument. I was quite willing
..to take what you had to say seriously, but within a few posts all you've
..seem to be able to do is rustle up a bit of inflammatory rhetoric and
..contradict yourself.
..
..I'm putting you in my list of people to ignore from now on.

Good. I only care about talking to those who are listening.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 16:15:39 GMT, Mike Vandeman
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:34:36 +1200, Disco Stu
wrote:

.I'm putting you in my list of people to ignore from now on.

Good. I only care about talking to those who are listening.
===
You persist in posting to newsgroups and mailing lists where no one
listening, or least no one takes anything you say seriously.

I guess you are doing this despite not caring for it.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Disco Stu wrote in message ...
I'm putting you in my list of people to ignore from now on.

It's about time. Go ride your bike.

JD

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:48:42 GMT, Mike Vandeman
wrote:

On 5 Jul 2004 10:23:31 -0700, (JD) wrote:

.Disco Stu wrote in message ...
. I'm putting you in my list of people to ignore from now on.
.
.It's about time. Go ride your bike.

Yeah, you need to work on your impotence & osteoporosis. (Aren't you glad I now
have a new line?)

New line, same one-note song.

If this went through the same rigorous scientific process as your
usual, you have taken something out of context, exaggarated it, and
used it to support your existing opinions.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

JD wrote:
Disco Stu wrote in message ...

I'm putting you in my list of people to ignore from now on.


It's about time. Go ride your bike.

JD

Sounds like a bloody good idea.

I just wish I had listened to people pleadings earlier. I wasted good
riding time by giving that Mike fellow an opportunity to present his
arguments and share his view points in a constructive way.

Nevermind I guess - now if I can just figure out why my avid disks with
fairly new pads have suddenly started losing traction...

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:47:32 GMT, Mike Vandeman
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 16:53:10 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

.On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 16:15:39 GMT, Mike Vandeman
.wrote:
.
.On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:34:36 +1200, Disco Stu
.wrote:
.
..I'm putting you in my list of people to ignore from now on.
.
.Good. I only care about talking to those who are listening.
.===
.You persist in posting to newsgroups and mailing lists where no one
.listening,

You are listening, liar. But, hey, thanks for demonstrating, once again, that
mountain bikers ALWAYS LIE!

Listening would mean paying attention to the content. At times, I find
it amusing to interact with your babbling.

I am not a mountain biker, as it happens. It does not seem to make any
sense to call me one.

What have I demonstrated, and why is it that no one else perceives the
world the way you do? How does insulting mountain bikers accomplish
anything?

There is no way to convince you, because you reject any new
information that does not match what you already believe. Some
scientist.

Is it possible for someone to disagree with you, on any topic, even
slightly, and not be a liar? Or are you surrounded by a whole world of
liars?

It would be great to have a rational discussion about the impact of
outdoor recreation. Unfortunately, you would turn it into a joke. In
this way, you stifle discussion, and end up harming the environment.

I know that responding to you will never change your mind or your
tactics. These exchanges do show you for what you are, not as a
rational advocate of anything. I have other things to do now, and will
drop out of these exchanges with you.

That is your cue to call me names. You cannot resist it, it is the
only way you can interact with other people. You have no control over
your actions.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom