#101
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Buying on the net
L'acrobat Wrote: and who is determined to spread FUD about the competitor that i killing the LBS dinosaurs. No, I'm not. You're jumping to as many conclusions as a frog with chili shoved up its arse. What I'm saying is that, don't whinge whe the net doesn't fulfil all your cycling purchase dreams. It's what said to DRS and it's what I'm saying to you. I think that the mark-u charged by the average retail "dinosaur" (as you, again, s disparagingly put it) is quite often justified by the service the provide, if you would approach any transaction with less of the "I am rock, I am an island (with a credit card)" 'tude: the staff might com across a bit better, and do you some good. I don't need some spotty little ****** in the LBS to patronise me whe I want to buy parts, I can also get exactly what I want faster via th net than from the LBS. Sorry, I forgot to squeeze my zits this morning. And I promise I wil attend my remedial personality classes when I get sick of my freerid bike. I promise. Again, you are trying sweeping generalisations to try to spread FUD - cycling is not rocket science. No, it's just that there is a certain class of product knowledge tha you can't get from marketing blurb, sycophantic cycling magazines an word of mouth that may benefit a certain class of cyclist, one of who you are obviously not. Next time you need an STI or Ergo leve serviced, or a BB tapped, or a wheel trued, don't come to where I work because I might be slightly grumpy if you brag about how much money yo saved by buying the product we've got hanging in the window for 10-15 less on the net. Capisce? Whilst I appreciate you seem to have a need for stream o consciousness, anti consumer posts. I don't. the above is a load of self justifying whining. In reality, bike parts are little different from toasters - they ar both consumer goods, learn to live with that fact. Really? Ever tried hitting the hills on a toaster? Maybe you should b skiing. And as for "stream of consciousness", I think you may be a littl daunted and surprised that an LBS employee can string a sentence or tw together to make a paragraph. I generally don't whine. Children whine I'm just begging to differ with your model of how you think bike should be supplied to people, and by inference, your underlyin assumptions on how the world should exchange goods and services, an for how long they should be expected to work, and with what input fro experienced maintenance personnell. No, I'm trying to dent your arrogant consciousness with a differen point of view. Us serfs of the service economy actually, in the bik industry, do it for love, mostly. The vast majority of people who com in to bike shops are a pleasure to deal with, coz they are buyin things that can make them happy. The miserable ones seem to sit at hom and buy off the net, and get grizzly when their deals go wrong. I don' see many miserable people in the shop, anyway. M "Use it up, wear it out, make do or do without. Where's tha attitude gone? It won WW11" H Utter nonsense - the attitude that won WW2 was the "churn them out i vast numbers" attitude that you seem to hate.[/color] "Utter"? pomposity seems to be catching - I have a Department o Industry poster from 1942 on my wall with this very slogan on it. M mum remembers park railings being melted down for scrap - and bik purchases being severely rationed. Consumerism isn't cycling - if you insist on confusing the two, the you are just in it for the purchases. I think I'll go for a spin on m old converted track bike now, 40 y.o frame still rides pretty good. M "gets about on a variety of conveyances" -- mfhor |
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#102
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Buying on the net
"mfhor" wrote in message
L'acrobat Wrote: and who is determined to spread FUD about the competitor that is killing the LBS dinosaurs. No, I'm not. You're jumping to as many conclusions as a frog with a chili shoved up its arse. Pot, meet kettle. What I'm saying is that, don't whinge when the net doesn't fulfil all your cycling purchase dreams. It's what I said to DRS and it's what I'm saying to you. You said a lot more than just that and all of it pig-ignorant bull**** and offensive too. You have no idea what I'm buying, why I'm buying it, what I want it for or anything else that's relevant but you still feel free to make your **** up out thin air and try to chuck it my way. If I'm having grief with one particularly well-known onlince vendor of bike bits for no better reason than I'm in Australia and they're being pig-headed about my creadit card then I'm entitled to tell people what's happening without dumb**** morons like you trying to use me as a poster child for their own pig-ignorant personal rant. [...] Really? Ever tried hitting the hills on a toaster? Maybe you should be skiing. And as for "stream of consciousness", I think you may be a little daunted and surprised that an LBS employee can string a sentence or two together to make a paragraph. I generally don't whine. You've fooled us well and truly. You do nothing but. Children whine. Then stop it. I'm just begging to differ with your model of how you think bikes should be supplied to people, and by inference, your underlying assumptions on how the world should exchange goods and services, and for how long they should be expected to work, and with what input from experienced maintenance personnell. No, I'm trying to dent your arrogant consciousness with a different point of view. Us serfs of the service economy actually, in the bike industry, do it for love, mostly. The vast majority of people who come in to bike shops are a pleasure to deal with, coz they are buying things that can make them happy. The miserable ones seem to sit at home and buy off the net, and get grizzly when their deals go wrong. I don't see many miserable people in the shop, anyway. There's nothing miserable about detailing one bad experience, especially when it's relevant to a lot of people who read this group. What's miserable is arrogant *******s like you who think they know everything trying to tell us how awful we are because we choose to try to get best value for our money. -- A: Top-posters. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet? |
#103
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Buying on the net
"mfhor" wrote in message ... L'acrobat Wrote: and who is determined to spread FUD about the competitor that is killing the LBS dinosaurs. No, I'm not. You're jumping to as many conclusions as a frog with a chili shoved up its arse. What I'm saying is that, don't whinge when the net doesn't fulfil all your cycling purchase dreams. It's what I said to DRS and it's what I'm saying to you. You are simply a liar. "mfhor" wrote in message ... "Yes, it's a wonderful new toy, this Internet whosamajiggy, but does it help you to ride your bike? No. Does it alert you to incompatibilities, or attempt to use a bit of ingenuity and face-to-face persuasion to get things resolved? No. Does it rely on mountains of regulations, protocols, lack of discrepancies, things out of your control and uncaring blandness wrung from the dripping brows of transnational financial serfs chained to their desktop boxes, who might as well be selling toasters or fertiliser for all the interest and aptitude they bring to your treasured cycling purchases? Well, shortly, yes." Hint, don't lie when it is that easy to look up exactly what you said. I think that the mark-up charged by the average retail "dinosaur" (as you, again, so disparagingly put it) is quite often justified by the service they provide, if you would approach any transaction with less of the "I am a rock, I am an island (with a credit card)" 'tude: the staff might come across a bit better, and do you some good. Again you seem to think a transaction involving bike bits is not a simple retail transaction. you are wrong. I give them money, they give me bike bits - the less money I give them for said bits, the better and the dinosaurs can't compete. I don't need some spotty little ****** in the LBS to patronise me when I want to buy parts, I can also get exactly what I want faster via the net than from the LBS. Sorry, I forgot to squeeze my zits this morning. And I promise I will attend my remedial personality classes when I get sick of my freeride bike. I promise. and I note that aside from avoiding the issue of LBSes frequently being staffed by patronising ******s, you avoid the issue of speed of delivery. Again, you are trying sweeping generalisations to try to spread FUD - cycling is not rocket science. No, it's just that there is a certain class of product knowledge that you can't get from marketing blurb, sycophantic cycling magazines and word of mouth that may benefit a certain class of cyclist, one of whom you are obviously not. Since word of mouth is, by definition, the best info you can get on a product (ie the opinion of users who are not trying to sell you product), then I'd like to see why I should (in your commercially biased opinion) listen to someone who wants to sell me good V that of someone who doesn't. Next time you need an STI or Ergo lever serviced, or a BB tapped, or a wheel trued, don't come to where I work, because I might be slightly grumpy if you brag about how much money you saved by buying the product we've got hanging in the window for 10-15% less on the net. Capisce? You don't get it do you, if I can't do it myself, I know people who can (and I listen to their 'word of mouth' opinions), the LBS is in deep trouble - it can't compete on the product price and doesn't have a monopoly on expert opinion - why would I go to an LBS to let a pretentious ****** do something that I can do myself or get done by a mate for a 6 pack? Whilst I appreciate you seem to have a need for stream of consciousness, anti consumer posts. I don't. the above is a load of self justifying whining. In reality, bike parts are little different from toasters - they are both consumer goods, learn to live with that fact. Really? Ever tried hitting the hills on a toaster? Maybe you should be skiing. What a nice evasion, both are consumer goods. nothing more. And as for "stream of consciousness", I think you may be a little daunted and surprised that an LBS employee can string a sentence or two together to make a paragraph. I generally don't whine. Children whine. Then stop whining. I'm just begging to differ with your model of how you think bikes should be supplied to people, and by inference, your underlying assumptions on how the world should exchange goods and services, and for how long they should be expected to work, and with what input from experienced maintenance personnell. Yes, I can see that. I deal with reality and you think that selling bike bits is a sacred vocation that is exempt from the basics of commerce. No, I'm trying to dent your arrogant consciousness with a different point of view. Us serfs of the service economy actually, in the bike industry, do it for love, mostly. Right and the pay is returned to the customer I take it? The vast majority of people who come in to bike shops are a pleasure to deal with, coz they are buying things that can make them happy. The miserable ones seem to sit at home and buy off the net, and get grizzly when their deals go wrong. I don't see many miserable people in the shop, anyway. More utter crap. how exactly would you know anything about those who buy off the net, you don't interact with them. M "Use it up, wear it out, make do or do without. Where's that attitude gone? It won WW11" H Utter nonsense - the attitude that won WW2 was the "churn them out in vast numbers" attitude that you seem to hate. "Utter"? pomposity seems to be catching - I have a Department of Industry poster from 1942 on my wall with this very slogan on it. My mum remembers park railings being melted down for scrap - and bike purchases being severely rationed.[/color] Oh good, propaganda posters as an indicator of actual wartime policy. You might want to look into the reality of what happened to most of the 'scrap' that was taken away as part of the various 'war drives' - the short answer is bugger all happened tomost of it - it was a very effective way to make people think they were involved in the war effort, but in reality contributed little in the way of material. But while your at it, look up the actual numbers of tanks, planes, artillery, ships etc churned out by the allies and USSR compared to those made by the axis = a clear victory for the "churn them out" policy. but don't let reality interfere with your fantasy. Consumerism isn't cycling - if you insist on confusing the two, then you are just in it for the purchases. I think I'll go for a spin on my old converted track bike now, 40 y.o frame still rides pretty good. What a load of wank. cycling is a consumer pastime. get over it. |
#104
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Buying on the net
L'acrobat Wrote: What a load of wank. cycling is a consumer pastime. get over it. Good. I've managed to bait both of the . . . (trying to think of a word that encapsulates pig-headedness, peevishness, over-reliance on technology, consumerism, and bad-mannered invective) out into the open. Hey, L'acrobat - before you try and teach history, get past the crudities of the "biggest battalions" argument, then you might be worth listening to. If you started trumpeting the virtues of your latest internet purchases down at Cafe Racer etc., or the Sydeny equivalent, you'd pretty soon have a small audience of computech nerds, and everyone else moving down to the other end. I hear more conversations about how 'X at shop Y fixed a problem I had for years' - whatever the shop, whomever the X, I feel glad that the local industry is kicking some goals. The whining is done by those who can't get what they were promised, at any price. Heh heh heh. If I promise, it is a considered promise, and I rarely mess up. The price is higher, but the problem is less reliant on unseen and distant factors. If your attitudes are that cycling is a consumer pasttime, then just slot uncritically into the prevailing worldview. Pop out. Learn. Earn. Spend. Die. P.S. - do you get your mate to fix the problem AFTER he has drunk the beer? M "tired of economic rationalists" H -- mfhor |
#105
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Buying on the net
mfhor Wrote: Good. I've managed to bait both of the . . . (trying to think of a wor that encapsulates pig-headedness, peevishness, over-reliance o technology, consumerism, and bad-mannered invective) out into th open. Hey, L'acrobat - before you try and teach history, get past th crudities of the "biggest battalions" argument, then you might be wort listening to. If you started trumpeting the virtues of your latest internet purchase down at Cafe Racer etc., or the Sydeny equivalent, you'd pretty soo have a small audience of computech nerds, and everyone else moving dow to the other end. I hear more conversations about how 'X at shop Y fixe a problem I had for years' - whatever the shop, whomever the X, I fee glad that the local industry is kicking some goals. The whining is done by those who can't get what they were promised, a any price. Heh heh heh. If I promise, it is a considered promise, and rarely mess up. The price is higher, but the problem is less reliant o unseen and distant factors. If your attitudes are that cycling is a consumer pasttime, then jus slot uncritically into the prevailing worldview. Pop out. Learn. Earn Spend. Die. P.S. - do you get your mate to fix the problem AFTER he has drunk th beer? M "tired of economic rationalists" H BTW, if you go into likely shops with the attitude that the staff ar "pretentious ******s", sure enough, you'll find them. Or your attitud will make them put up their reciprocal "****** armour", turning th potential relationship sour from the outset. You're not confined to going into the glossiest shop with th schmickest window display (which seems to need to justify itself b staff attitude), you know. Isn't that what you're on about - choice But I'm sorry, you prefer to be aloof. M "still not apologetic for working in an LBS" -- mfhor |
#106
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Buying on the net
"mfhor" wrote in message ... L'acrobat Wrote: What a load of wank. cycling is a consumer pastime. get over it. Good. I've managed to bait both of the . . . (trying to think of a word that encapsulates pig-headedness, peevishness, over-reliance on technology, consumerism, and bad-mannered invective) out into the open. Or to put it another way, you can't refute the fact that Cycling IS a consumer pastime and hope to shift the goal posts. fail. Hey, L'acrobat - before you try and teach history, get past the crudities of the "biggest battalions" argument, then you might be worth listening to. Ah yes the crudities of the bigger Battalions argument - USA, in 1944 alone produced = 91,546 aircraft Total axis (Germany, Japan, Italy) aircraft production for all of WW2 = 114,763 Total Allied and Soviet Tank + SPG production (excluding minor nations like Aust), WW2 = 227235 Total axis Tank and SPG production, WW2 = 51845 Total Soviet Artillery production WW2 = 516648 guns Total Axis Artillery production WW2 = 179694 guns the figures are similar in almost all classes of equipment, the allies produced their way to victory, but stick with the fantasy if you find it comforting. If you started trumpeting the virtues of your latest internet purchases down at Cafe Racer etc., or the Sydeny equivalent, you'd pretty soon have a small audience of computech nerds, and everyone else moving down to the other end. I hear more conversations about how 'X at shop Y fixed a problem I had for years' - whatever the shop, whomever the X, I feel glad that the local industry is kicking some goals. I don't hang around in cafes. Of couse the thing you fail to acknowledge is that, if you are frequenting bike shops and "shop X fixed Y problem you've had for years", then that rather suggests that shops "A to W" were unable to fix it and still charged for the "service", otherwise the problem would have been fixed years ago, you also ignore the amount of problems fixed with advice available via the net or by the "word of mouth" you malign. The whining is done by those who can't get what they were promised, at any price. Heh heh heh. If I promise, it is a considered promise, and I rarely mess up. The price is higher, but the problem is less reliant on unseen and distant factors. Yet you are whining about people who choose to buy exactly the same products at significantly less cost and delivered sooner. If your attitudes are that cycling is a consumer pasttime, then just slot uncritically into the prevailing worldview. Pop out. Learn. Earn. Spend. Die. Oh good. insane personal philosophy. more of that thanks. P.S. - do you get your mate to fix the problem AFTER he has drunk the beer? Usually I help him drink it while we fix it. M "tired of economic rationalists" H Because economic irrationalists achieve so much... |
#107
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Buying on the net
"mfhor" wrote in message ... BTW, if you go into likely shops with the attitude that the staff are "pretentious ******s", sure enough, you'll find them. Or your attitude will make them put up their reciprocal "****** armour", turning the potential relationship sour from the outset. yawn. You're not confined to going into the glossiest shop with the schmickest window display (which seems to need to justify itself by staff attitude), you know. Isn't that what you're on about - choice? But I'm sorry, you prefer to be aloof. No, I just prefer not to waste money on a 'service' that doesn't add value. |
#108
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Buying on the net
L'acrobat Wrote: "mfhor" wrote in messag .. BTW, if you go into likely shops with the attitude that the staff ar "pretentious ******s", sure enough, you'll find them. Or you attitud will make them put up their reciprocal "****** armour", turning th potential relationship sour from the outset yawn You're not confined to going into the glossiest shop with th schmickest window display (which seems to need to justify itself b staff attitude), you know. Isn't that what you're on about - choice But I'm sorry, you prefer to be aloof No, I just prefer not to waste money on a 'service' that doesn't ad value. Well, I sort of picked you as an obsessive WW 11 facts and figure type. But, it doesn't really tally with what happened to real peopl during the conflict, of which about 10 of my near relations stil living actually lived through, in the thick of it, i.e. in th industrial heartland of the UK. Yes, so in the end the US had th biggest military-industrial complex. But in Britain, during the day before the Lend-Lease program, all stops were pulled out, all avenue explored, and attitudes were formed that, in the end, produced som rather nice examples of engineering, on a shoestring compared to wha the Yanks could muster. So yes, efficiency, quality of design, repairability and conservin one's resources matter to me. Who's to say we won't find ourselves in such straits again? Qualitie demanded in bikes then will be repairability, durability, longevity Superlight alloy and most CF will be seen for the toys that they are Technologies will trend towards the local, rather than relying on part on demand from around the world. Reusing, recycling. We might as wel enjoy all the high tech we've got now, while we've got chance an leisure. It may last, it may not - Should I give up learning to gas an TIG weld because I'm assured that we will get everything we need fro China? When I was in Vietnam, I remember seeing an old Peugeot bike, one o many, the elaborate name still visible under layers of slurry from th fields. It had a huge bale of bamboo strapped to the rear. From it' importation from France in what might have been the 30s, what had tha bike seen? Had it been part of the supply trains during the America War (as they call it)? And the mechanics on the street corners keeping people going, for not much money. They don't need elaborat distribution channels. They talk to the people they sell things to. like to think that an element of that goes on in the shop I work in How far are you away from that? Look down your elevated nose if yo please. We sell high priced Italian, Taiwanese and US bikes as well. W give bull**** to neither one category of customer nor the other. M "*" -- mfhor |
#109
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Buying on the net
"mfhor" wrote in message ... You're not confined to going into the glossiest shop with the schmickest window display (which seems to need to justify itself by staff attitude), you know. Isn't that what you're on about - choice? But I'm sorry, you prefer to be aloof. No, I just prefer not to waste money on a 'service' that doesn't add value. Well, I sort of picked you as an obsessive WW 11 facts and figures type. Or alternatively, I own a book, you should try one. they frequently deal in facts. When reality is whipping your arse, trying to blame the messenger doesn't get you out of it. But, it doesn't really tally with what happened to real people during the conflict, of which about 10 of my near relations still living actually lived through, in the thick of it, i.e. in the industrial heartland of the UK. Yes, so in the end the US had the biggest military-industrial complex. But in Britain, during the days before the Lend-Lease program, all stops were pulled out, all avenues explored, and attitudes were formed that, in the end, produced some rather nice examples of engineering, on a shoestring compared to what the Yanks could muster. None of which supports your earlier contention. also, none of these relatives whom you quote had access to the fact that the vast majority of of the scrap collected was not recycled. also, you seem to be forgetting the vast amount of material the US sold to the UK prior to lend lease, under the cash and carry act. Treasure the fantasy. So yes, efficiency, quality of design, repairability and conserving one's resources matter to me. as above, Treasure the fantasy. Who's to say we won't find ourselves in such straits again? We were never in such straits, but if we were, I expect we would rely on our allies and massive production superiority. again. Qualities demanded in bikes then will be repairability, durability, longevity. Superlight alloy and most CF will be seen for the toys that they are. Technologies will trend towards the local, rather than relying on parts on demand from around the world. Reusing, recycling. We might as well enjoy all the high tech we've got now, while we've got chance and leisure. It may last, it may not - Should I give up learning to gas and TIG weld because I'm assured that we will get everything we need from China? an interesting fantasy with no basis in reality. a bit of a recurring theme with you. When I was in Vietnam, I remember seeing an old Peugeot bike, one of many, the elaborate name still visible under layers of slurry from the fields. It had a huge bale of bamboo strapped to the rear. From it's importation from France in what might have been the 30s, what had that bike seen? Had it been part of the supply trains during the American War (as they call it)? And the mechanics on the street corners - keeping people going, for not much money. They don't need elaborate distribution channels. They talk to the people they sell things to. I like to think that an element of that goes on in the shop I work in. How far are you away from that? Look down your elevated nose if you please. We sell high priced Italian, Taiwanese and US bikes as well. We give bull**** to neither one category of customer nor the other. more unrelated drivel. why do you think anyone wants to hear it? |
#110
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Buying on the net
L'acrobat Wrote: more unrelated drivel. why do you think anyone wants to hear it? are you facng a keyboard as you type that or a mirror? We're over it lads. go ride some... :rolleyes -- flyingdutch |
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